Emergency Ufozs Comms?

[NT2C]

How about instead you and the other members who  are hams get together and show us a low cost set up so in the event of worst case we can keep in touch? Our membership stretches from sea to shining sea. It would benefit us all to know what is going on in Virginia, Iowa, Alabama, Texas, California and all the other places .

Something simple that even old dumb ass's like me can use

I have to agree. There has to be value in some form of communications we could use as a group. Obviously something each member could opt into.

It doesnt have to be in the event of something that kills all comm tools ie an emp. It could be in the event the powers start shutting things down. Or a regional disaster where everyone in that region has lost all internet, but not cell. So youd rely on text say. Or theyve lost everything but youve got ham capability. So you break out the ham radio. I have to admit im not a ham expert. I do uae scanners alot. I know u can talk across long distances with ham. But i think u need a base unit. Not just a handheld. But i could be wrong.

Lastly, i dont think this is something the staff should shoulder. It would be a big job that a few people would probably have to handle. Researching various comms capabilities. Compiling lists of participants etc.

Maybe this is a reason for me to get deeper into ham. Ive spent alot of time listening to ham with a scanner. Its pretty entertaining.

Yes, get involved in ham radio beyond just listening.  It's quite a lot of fun, extremely educational, and a good eye-opener to the realities of radio communication.  That "low-cost, simple, worst-case setup" that FBM mentioned?  It doesn't exist.  Not for most people's definition of "low-cost".  Hell, ham radio is not an inexpensive hobby.  The cheapest HF rig I ever bought was a $400 25-year-old Kenwood with a cracked circuit board.  Next up from that was a $750 Icom mobile rig on its 6th owner.  New HF?  Bring your deepest purse when you go shopping, and don't forget you'll need antennas, coax, mounts, masts, maybe a tower, laptops and monitors in addition to the transceiver. "Low-cost ham radio" is a phrase right up there with "inexpensive off-shore racing" and "budget Formula 1 car"

[woodsghost]

Shortwave as a starting point. A SDR (software defined radio) would be useful and possibly cheaper. A good antenna would help. But that is 1 way communication. But world wide 1 way communication, so that is pretty cool.

As for keeping in touch with all of us? If an EMP goes off I'll be busy with my new dirt farmer skills. Currently, making sort is what I'm best at. And not the valuable compost type diet, just the regular kind. I'm working on my skillet and will keep people posted eventually. I'm hoping this spring/summer I'll have something to report.

The other possibility is "economic collapse and rolling blackouts" and maybe "roving gangs of criminals disrupting delivery of normal public services." If that happens I think some radio nets would be useful and short wave or SDRers will be able to listen in. That is a pretty narrow subset of people who would be able to participate in the net in such a situation.

I think the most useful thing, if there is disruption of comms that brings down local/regional/national access to the forum, is to get face to face contact with local people. But I suspect we will never see "world wide" disruption.

It would be super cool if we set up a bunch of low power stations to send info using digital modes on HF like FT8 and FLDigi for comms with the crowd in difficult situations. But I really see any members in tough situations being pretty caught up in the .... local situation ... and not especially focused on communication with the forum. Raptor has done that though, signing in after disasters, but only after his local situation is ... relatively.... under control.

So backups are important. But I feel the thing which causes the need for a backup may be too serious for much communication?


My wife says we should all move together in a big commune. I do think that would solve the comms issue. And now she is mentioning that she and I haven't figured out how to communicate about whose towels is whose so don't hold high expectations for emergency comms from me .... she is right, even if a little snarky.

[Blast]

That "low-cost, simple, worst-case setup" that FBM mentioned?  It doesn't exist.  Not for most people's definition of "low-cost".  Hell, ham radio is not an inexpensive hobby.  The cheapest HF rig I ever bought was a $400 25-year-old Kenwood with a cracked circuit board.  Next up from that was a $750 Icom mobile rig on its 6th owner.  New HF?  Bring your deepest purse when you go shopping, and don't forget you'll need antennas, coax, mounts, masts, maybe a tower, laptops and monitors in addition to the transceiver. "Low-cost ham radio" is a phrase right up there with "inexpensive off-shore racing" and "budget Formula 1 car"

I'm going to disagree with you. There are a number of low-cost, Chinese SW transceivers available nowadays. Older hams scoff at Baofeng and related radios, but I couldn't have become a licensed ham radio operator without my $30 handheld transceiver. With a homemade J-pole antenna I was hitting repeaters 30 miles away with the 5-watt, Baofeng UV-5R.

I have a 25-watt Radioddity DB25 (sub $100 when on sale) in my vehicles and it does great. Here's the writeup I did on it:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=111.0

Here's the "Ham Radio 101" link:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=112.0

If you watch the sales, a serviceable system can be acquired for under $50. That's cheap enough to stick in a Faraday cage, waiting the Day After.
-Blast

[Moab]

That "low-cost, simple, worst-case setup" that FBM mentioned?  It doesn't exist.  Not for most people's definition of "low-cost".  Hell, ham radio is not an inexpensive hobby.  The cheapest HF rig I ever bought was a $400 25-year-old Kenwood with a cracked circuit board.  Next up from that was a $750 Icom mobile rig on its 6th owner.  New HF?  Bring your deepest purse when you go shopping, and don't forget you'll need antennas, coax, mounts, masts, maybe a tower, laptops and monitors in addition to the transceiver. "Low-cost ham radio" is a phrase right up there with "inexpensive off-shore racing" and "budget Formula 1 car"

I'm going to disagree with you. There are a number of low-cost, Chinese SW transceivers available nowadays. Older hams scoff at Baofeng and related radios, but I couldn't have become a licensed ham radio operator without my $30 handheld transceiver. With a homemade J-pole antenna I was hitting repeaters 30 miles away with the 5-watt, Baofeng UV-5R.

I have a 25-watt Radioddity DB25 (sub $100 when on sale) in my vehicles and it does great. Here's the writeup I did on it:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=111.0

Here's the "Ham Radio 101" link:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=112.0

If you watch the sales, a serviceable system can be acquired for under $50. That's cheap enough to stick in a Faraday cage, waiting the Day After.
-Blast

I was going to mention the baofengs too.

Out of curiosity will the base unit u mention pick up stuff worldwide or juat local repeaters? What will thw baufengs pick up? I mean how far?

[NT2C]

That "low-cost, simple, worst-case setup" that FBM mentioned?  It doesn't exist.  Not for most people's definition of "low-cost".  Hell, ham radio is not an inexpensive hobby.  The cheapest HF rig I ever bought was a $400 25-year-old Kenwood with a cracked circuit board.  Next up from that was a $750 Icom mobile rig on its 6th owner.  New HF?  Bring your deepest purse when you go shopping, and don't forget you'll need antennas, coax, mounts, masts, maybe a tower, laptops and monitors in addition to the transceiver. "Low-cost ham radio" is a phrase right up there with "inexpensive off-shore racing" and "budget Formula 1 car"

I'm going to disagree with you. There are a number of low-cost, Chinese SW transceivers available nowadays. Older hams scoff at Baofeng and related radios, but I couldn't have become a licensed ham radio operator without my $30 handheld transceiver. With a homemade J-pole antenna I was hitting repeaters 30 miles away with the 5-watt, Baofeng UV-5R.

I have a 25-watt Radioddity DB25 (sub $100 when on sale) in my vehicles and it does great. Here's the writeup I did on it:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=111.0

Here's the "Ham Radio 101" link:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=112.0

If you watch the sales, a serviceable system can be acquired for under $50. That's cheap enough to stick in a Faraday cage, waiting the Day After.
-Blast

UFoZS is a global entity these days, so any "emergency comms" solution for keeping us in touch with one another isn't going to be based on a 3.5W UHF/VHF HT.  Yes, I know it claims to be anything from 4W up to 7W, depending on which seller's listing you see it in, the reality is it averages between 3.5 and 4 watts ERP, and has all kinds of spurious emissions.  They're really pretty awful once you start deep diving into their actual performance.  As to your Radioddity rig. I have no experience with one but again, it's VHF/UHF and limited to LoS (unless you're shooting for sats, and even then it's barely capable).  HF is required if you want to make global contacts, and proper antennas and sufficient power, and all that comes with a hefty price tag.

About the only use I could see for VHF/UHF communications with this group is for members who live within 50 miles of each other to maintain contact when other comms are down.  In that eventuality, there's a non-zero chance that the FCC might order everyone off the air (in the event the disruption is hostile action or civil unrest) and if not then whatever repeaters remain functional will be reserved for emergency traffic.

[NT2C]

That "low-cost, simple, worst-case setup" that FBM mentioned?  It doesn't exist.  Not for most people's definition of "low-cost".  Hell, ham radio is not an inexpensive hobby.  The cheapest HF rig I ever bought was a $400 25-year-old Kenwood with a cracked circuit board.  Next up from that was a $750 Icom mobile rig on its 6th owner.  New HF?  Bring your deepest purse when you go shopping, and don't forget you'll need antennas, coax, mounts, masts, maybe a tower, laptops and monitors in addition to the transceiver. "Low-cost ham radio" is a phrase right up there with "inexpensive off-shore racing" and "budget Formula 1 car"

I'm going to disagree with you. There are a number of low-cost, Chinese SW transceivers available nowadays. Older hams scoff at Baofeng and related radios, but I couldn't have become a licensed ham radio operator without my $30 handheld transceiver. With a homemade J-pole antenna I was hitting repeaters 30 miles away with the 5-watt, Baofeng UV-5R.

I have a 25-watt Radioddity DB25 (sub $100 when on sale) in my vehicles and it does great. Here's the writeup I did on it:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=111.0

Here's the "Ham Radio 101" link:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=112.0

If you watch the sales, a serviceable system can be acquired for under $50. That's cheap enough to stick in a Faraday cage, waiting the Day After.
-Blast

I was going to mention the baofengs too.

Out of curiosity will the base unit u mention pick up stuff worldwide or juat local repeaters? What will thw baufengs pick up? I mean how far?

They can tune a pretty wide range of the VHF/UHF spectrum, but nothing in any SW or HF band and their sensitivity is really crappy.  A $100 multi-band SW receiver would be a better choice.  Also, good reception almost demands a good antenna.

[woodsghost]

That "low-cost, simple, worst-case setup" that FBM mentioned?  It doesn't exist.  Not for most people's definition of "low-cost".  Hell, ham radio is not an inexpensive hobby.  The cheapest HF rig I ever bought was a $400 25-year-old Kenwood with a cracked circuit board.  Next up from that was a $750 Icom mobile rig on its 6th owner.  New HF?  Bring your deepest purse when you go shopping, and don't forget you'll need antennas, coax, mounts, masts, maybe a tower, laptops and monitors in addition to the transceiver. "Low-cost ham radio" is a phrase right up there with "inexpensive off-shore racing" and "budget Formula 1 car"

I'm going to disagree with you. There are a number of low-cost, Chinese SW transceivers available nowadays. Older hams scoff at Baofeng and related radios, but I couldn't have become a licensed ham radio operator without my $30 handheld transceiver. With a homemade J-pole antenna I was hitting repeaters 30 miles away with the 5-watt, Baofeng UV-5R.

I have a 25-watt Radioddity DB25 (sub $100 when on sale) in my vehicles and it does great. Here's the writeup I did on it:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=111.0

Here's the "Ham Radio 101" link:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=112.0

If you watch the sales, a serviceable system can be acquired for under $50. That's cheap enough to stick in a Faraday cage, waiting the Day After.
-Blast

I was going to mention the baofengs too.

Out of curiosity will the base unit u mention pick up stuff worldwide or juat local repeaters? What will thw baufengs pick up? I mean how far?

If you are in Los Angeles, I would expect a Baofeng to receive up to 60 miles because of repeaters around the city. Especially if you go up 9 stories on top of an apartment. A good antenna will help a lot.

If traveling I would not expect as much performance because of the lack of repeaters and access to high rooftops, but I would not be surprised to find GMRS repeaters along a Northern route and as an emergency you could dial into those to seek help or listen what locals are saying during a disaster.

If in Oregon or Washington, there should be repeaters near large cities but I am not sure the mountains are the same and I would expect decreased performance. Especially in summer with more vegetation, if any is hampering access to repeaters. But again, get on a roof and get a decent antenna for best performance.

If in the mountains of the PNW and doing a bug out on foot I would expect your Baofeng to be limited to a mile or two during the summer. Probably 1 mile.

But before and after thunderstorms I would not be surprised if you suddenly got 40 miles of range for a few minutes.

If on the streets of LA I would not expect more than a mile of range with the Baofeng. And that would be with 440mhz. I would expect less with 140mhz. Under the right situation you could extend that quote a bit (talk down a highway that runs between buildings and you can get a tunnel effect which can help focus signal talk to people further away).

And while saying all that I have a friend in Oregon who easily gets 3 miles of range between Baofengs on a family farm and town, but that has been measured with being up in a barn talking to family in town.

And remember, there are some legal issues with using ham radios but in the event of a life/death emergency, the FCC allows for communication by any means necessary. Typically, 911 works best

[flybynight]

That "low-cost, simple, worst-case setup" that FBM mentioned?  It doesn't exist.  Not for most people's definition of "low-cost".  Hell, ham radio is not an inexpensive hobby.  The cheapest HF rig I ever bought was a $400 25-year-old Kenwood with a cracked circuit board.  Next up from that was a $750 Icom mobile rig on its 6th owner.  New HF?  Bring your deepest purse when you go shopping, and don't forget you'll need antennas, coax, mounts, masts, maybe a tower, laptops and monitors in addition to the transceiver. "Low-cost ham radio" is a phrase right up there with "inexpensive off-shore racing" and "budget Formula 1 car"

I'm going to disagree with you. There are a number of low-cost, Chinese SW transceivers available nowadays. Older hams scoff at Baofeng and related radios, but I couldn't have become a licensed ham radio operator without my $30 handheld transceiver. With a homemade J-pole antenna I was hitting repeaters 30 miles away with the 5-watt, Baofeng UV-5R.

I have a 25-watt Radioddity DB25 (sub $100 when on sale) in my vehicles and it does great. Here's the writeup I did on it:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=111.0

Here's the "Ham Radio 101" link:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=112.0

If you watch the sales, a serviceable system can be acquired for under $50. That's cheap enough to stick in a Faraday cage, waiting the Day After.
-Blast

I was going to mention the baofengs too.

Out of curiosity will the base unit u mention pick up stuff worldwide or juat local repeaters? What will thw baufengs pick up? I mean how far?

If you are in Los Angeles, I would expect a Baofeng to receive up to 60 miles because of repeaters around the city. Especially if you go up 9 stories on top of an apartment. A good antenna will help a lot.

If traveling I would not expect as much performance because of the lack of repeaters and access to high rooftops, but I would not be surprised to find GMRS repeaters along a Northern route and as an emergency you could dial into those to seek help or listen what locals are saying during a disaster.

If in Oregon or Washington, there should be repeaters near large cities but I am not sure the mountains are the same and I would expect decreased performance. Especially in summer with more vegetation, if any is hampering access to repeaters. But again, get on a roof and get a decent antenna for best performance.

If in the mountains of the PNW and doing a bug out on foot I would expect your Baofeng to be limited to a mile or two during the summer. Probably 1 mile.

But before and after thunderstorms I would not be surprised if you suddenly got 40 miles of range for a few minutes.

If on the streets of LA I would not expect more than a mile of range with the Baofeng. And that would be with 440mhz. I would expect less with 140mhz.

And while saying all that I have a friend who easily gets 3 miles of range between Baofengs on a family farm and town, but that has been measured with being up in a barn talking to family in town.

And remember, there are some legal issues with using ham radios but in the event of a life/death emergency, the FCC allows for communication by any means necessary. Typically, 911 works best

Relying on repeaters in a catastrophe situation sounds a like a fail. How long will the repeater stations operate if power is out ?

[woodsghost]

If you are in Los Angeles, I would expect a Baofeng to receive up to 60 miles because of repeaters around the city. Especially if you go up 9 stories on top of an apartment. A good antenna will help a lot.

If traveling I would not expect as much performance because of the lack of repeaters and access to high rooftops, but I would not be surprised to find GMRS repeaters along a Northern route and as an emergency you could dial into those to seek help or listen what locals are saying during a disaster.

If in Oregon or Washington, there should be repeaters near large cities but I am not sure the mountains are the same and I would expect decreased performance. Especially in summer with more vegetation, if any is hampering access to repeaters. But again, get on a roof and get a decent antenna for best performance.

If in the mountains of the PNW and doing a bug out on foot I would expect your Baofeng to be limited to a mile or two during the summer. Probably 1 mile.

But before and after thunderstorms I would not be surprised if you suddenly got 40 miles of range for a few minutes.

If on the streets of LA I would not expect more than a mile of range with the Baofeng. And that would be with 440mhz. I would expect less with 140mhz.

And while saying all that I have a friend who easily gets 3 miles of range between Baofengs on a family farm and town, but that has been measured with being up in a barn talking to family in town.

And remember, there are some legal issues with using ham radios but in the event of a life/death emergency, the FCC allows for communication by any means necessary. Typically, 911 works best

Relying on repeaters in a catastrophe situation sounds a like a fail. How long will the repeater stations operate if power is out ?

Depends, but many repeaters are designed for emergency use so they have big batteries and solar power to keep them going long after a disaster. It doesn't work well if hit by a wild fire. But otherwise can last quite a while.

[NT2C]

That "low-cost, simple, worst-case setup" that FBM mentioned?  It doesn't exist.  Not for most people's definition of "low-cost".  Hell, ham radio is not an inexpensive hobby.  The cheapest HF rig I ever bought was a $400 25-year-old Kenwood with a cracked circuit board.  Next up from that was a $750 Icom mobile rig on its 6th owner.  New HF?  Bring your deepest purse when you go shopping, and don't forget you'll need antennas, coax, mounts, masts, maybe a tower, laptops and monitors in addition to the transceiver. "Low-cost ham radio" is a phrase right up there with "inexpensive off-shore racing" and "budget Formula 1 car"

I'm going to disagree with you. There are a number of low-cost, Chinese SW transceivers available nowadays. Older hams scoff at Baofeng and related radios, but I couldn't have become a licensed ham radio operator without my $30 handheld transceiver. With a homemade J-pole antenna I was hitting repeaters 30 miles away with the 5-watt, Baofeng UV-5R.

I have a 25-watt Radioddity DB25 (sub $100 when on sale) in my vehicles and it does great. Here's the writeup I did on it:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=111.0

Here's the "Ham Radio 101" link:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=112.0

If you watch the sales, a serviceable system can be acquired for under $50. That's cheap enough to stick in a Faraday cage, waiting the Day After.
-Blast

I was going to mention the baofengs too.

Out of curiosity will the base unit u mention pick up stuff worldwide or juat local repeaters? What will thw baufengs pick up? I mean how far?

If you are in Los Angeles, I would expect a Baofeng to receive up to 60 miles because of repeaters around the city. Especially if you go up 9 stories on top of an apartment. A good antenna will help a lot.

If traveling I would not expect as much performance because of the lack of repeaters and access to high rooftops, but I would not be surprised to find GMRS repeaters along a Northern route and as an emergency you could dial into those to seek help or listen what locals are saying during a disaster.

If in Oregon or Washington, there should be repeaters near large cities but I am not sure the mountains are the same and I would expect decreased performance. Especially in summer with more vegetation, if any is hampering access to repeaters. But again, get on a roof and get a decent antenna for best performance.

If in the mountains of the PNW and doing a bug out on foot I would expect your Baofeng to be limited to a mile or two during the summer. Probably 1 mile.

But before and after thunderstorms I would not be surprised if you suddenly got 40 miles of range for a few minutes.

If on the streets of LA I would not expect more than a mile of range with the Baofeng. And that would be with 440mhz. I would expect less with 140mhz.

And while saying all that I have a friend who easily gets 3 miles of range between Baofengs on a family farm and town, but that has been measured with being up in a barn talking to family in town.

And remember, there are some legal issues with using ham radios but in the event of a life/death emergency, the FCC allows for communication by any means necessary. Typically, 911 works best

Relying on repeaters in a catastrophe situation sounds a like a fail. How long will the repeater stations operate if power is out ?

Depends on the individual repeater.  Many are housed in the same facilities and use the same towers as local emergency services; others have their own backup power, be it generators for the short term or solar for longer.  Every repeater is thus unique.

[NT2C]

If you are in Los Angeles, I would expect a Baofeng to receive up to 60 miles because of repeaters around the city. Especially if you go up 9 stories on top of an apartment. A good antenna will help a lot.

If traveling I would not expect as much performance because of the lack of repeaters and access to high rooftops, but I would not be surprised to find GMRS repeaters along a Northern route and as an emergency you could dial into those to seek help or listen what locals are saying during a disaster.

If in Oregon or Washington, there should be repeaters near large cities but I am not sure the mountains are the same and I would expect decreased performance. Especially in summer with more vegetation, if any is hampering access to repeaters. But again, get on a roof and get a decent antenna for best performance.

If in the mountains of the PNW and doing a bug out on foot I would expect your Baofeng to be limited to a mile or two during the summer. Probably 1 mile.

But before and after thunderstorms I would not be surprised if you suddenly got 40 miles of range for a few minutes.

If on the streets of LA I would not expect more than a mile of range with the Baofeng. And that would be with 440mhz. I would expect less with 140mhz.

And while saying all that I have a friend who easily gets 3 miles of range between Baofengs on a family farm and town, but that has been measured with being up in a barn talking to family in town.

And remember, there are some legal issues with using ham radios but in the event of a life/death emergency, the FCC allows for communication by any means necessary. Typically, 911 works best

Relying on repeaters in a catastrophe situation sounds a like a fail. How long will the repeater stations operate if power is out ?

Depends, but many repeaters are designed for emergency use so they have big batteries and solar power to keep them going long after a disaster. It doesn't work well if hit by a wild fire. But otherwise can last quite a while.

I'd also like to point out that many repeaters these days are digitally networked nationally or globally, or both. 

This all presumes "normal" operation during "normal" times.  When "normal" goes to hell in a handbasket then all that changes.  Some of it goes away (internet connections and some digital), some gets scaled up or scaled back, and most of it gets restricted for "emergency traffic".

Getting back to what this thread is about, I can't see any way that keeping us in contact with each other would constitute cause to let us use a portion of those resources.

We are thus, back to square one in needing a stand alone solution.

[woodsghost]

If you are in Los Angeles, I would expect a Baofeng to receive up to 60 miles because of repeaters around the city. Especially if you go up 9 stories on top of an apartment. A good antenna will help a lot.

If traveling I would not expect as much performance because of the lack of repeaters and access to high rooftops, but I would not be surprised to find GMRS repeaters along a Northern route and as an emergency you could dial into those to seek help or listen what locals are saying during a disaster.

If in Oregon or Washington, there should be repeaters near large cities but I am not sure the mountains are the same and I would expect decreased performance. Especially in summer with more vegetation, if any is hampering access to repeaters. But again, get on a roof and get a decent antenna for best performance.

If in the mountains of the PNW and doing a bug out on foot I would expect your Baofeng to be limited to a mile or two during the summer. Probably 1 mile.

But before and after thunderstorms I would not be surprised if you suddenly got 40 miles of range for a few minutes.

If on the streets of LA I would not expect more than a mile of range with the Baofeng. And that would be with 440mhz. I would expect less with 140mhz.

And while saying all that I have a friend who easily gets 3 miles of range between Baofengs on a family farm and town, but that has been measured with being up in a barn talking to family in town.

And remember, there are some legal issues with using ham radios but in the event of a life/death emergency, the FCC allows for communication by any means necessary. Typically, 911 works best

Relying on repeaters in a catastrophe situation sounds a like a fail. How long will the repeater stations operate if power is out ?

Depends, but many repeaters are designed for emergency use so they have big batteries and solar power to keep them going long after a disaster. It doesn't work well if hit by a wild fire. But otherwise can last quite a while.

I'd also like to point out that many repeaters these days are digitally networked nationally or globally, or both. 

This all presumes "normal" operation during "normal" times.  When "normal" goes to hell in a handbasket then all that changes.  Some of it goes away (internet connections and some digital), some gets scaled up or scaled back, and most of it gets restricted for "emergency traffic".

Getting back to what this thread is about, I can't see any way that keeping us in contact with each other would constitute cause to let us use a portion of those resources.

We are thus, back to square one in needing a stand alone solution.

I think those with the capability could put together a net using HF. I think people living in local areas can get in touch with other like minded people.

The whole "gonna be restricted for emergency use" thing is tough.

But the reason we all exist and come here is to game out scenarios and responses.

And we haven't even talked about what we will do if ALIENS INVADE!!!! Which I'm not nearly prepared enough for.

[NT2C]

I think those with the capability could put together a net using HF. I think people living in local areas can get in touch with other like minded people.

The whole "gonna be restricted for emergency use" thing is tough.

But the reason we all exist and come here is to game out scenarios and responses.

And we haven't even talked about what we will do if ALIENS INVADE!!!! Which I'm not nearly prepared enough for.

Could a net be put together on HF?  Yes, of course it could.  Could an effective and capable one be put together at low cost?  Depends on your definition of low cost.  If it's "under $100", no, it cannot.  If it's "under $500", possibly, with used equipment and homebrew antennas, and really favorable propagation.  If I had to put together a SHTF "must communicate" station these days I think $5k would be a reasonable starting point, but only if I had terrain favorable to communication.  Yes, I've made mobile contacts from my truck to Eastern Europe and Russia, as well and most of Africa and the Americas, but I can't say that I'd be able to consistently "hit" a particular station with that kind of setup, particularly if the other station had similar equipment.

[Moab]

This is a very interesting conversation none the less. I hope it continues. Thank you to all who are contributing. The information shared could easily take 100 times longer doing manual research.

Correct me if im wrong. But it sounds like getting as many numbers from fellow members as you can. And relying on text. In the event everything else went to hell. But even that seems very limited. Im racking my adhd brain trying to think of scenarios and types of comms that would be helpful. Ive threatened to get my ham license so many times. I am a private investigator by trade. And my use of scanners has been since way back. I would spend hours listening to ham. And many other types of conversation.

I wrote a short piece on scanners. But i wont bore you with it here. Ill post it to its own thread.

[Moab]

I think those with the capability could put together a net using HF. I think people living in local areas can get in touch with other like minded people.

The whole "gonna be restricted for emergency use" thing is tough.

But the reason we all exist and come here is to game out scenarios and responses.

And we haven't even talked about what we will do if ALIENS INVADE!!!! Which I'm not nearly prepared enough for.

Could a net be put together on HF?  Yes, of course it could.  Could an effective and capable one be put together at low cost?  Depends on your definition of low cost.  If it's "under $100", no, it cannot.  If it's "under $500", possibly, with used equipment and homebrew antennas, and really favorable propagation.  If I had to put together a SHTF "must communicate" station these days I think $5k would be a reasonable starting point, but only if I had terrain favorable to communication.  Yes, I've made mobile contacts from my truck to Eastern Europe and Russia, as well and most of Africa and the Americas, but I can't say that I'd be able to consistently "hit" a particular station with that kind of setup, particularly if the other station had similar equipment.

I applaud your knowledge. Ive soent enough time around radio communication as a private investigator to know what i dont know. And its alot. I have an adhd brain. And this type of knowledge requires a mathematician/engineer type.

[NT2C]

I think those with the capability could put together a net using HF. I think people living in local areas can get in touch with other like minded people.

The whole "gonna be restricted for emergency use" thing is tough.

But the reason we all exist and come here is to game out scenarios and responses.

And we haven't even talked about what we will do if ALIENS INVADE!!!! Which I'm not nearly prepared enough for.

Could a net be put together on HF?  Yes, of course it could.  Could an effective and capable one be put together at low cost?  Depends on your definition of low cost.  If it's "under $100", no, it cannot.  If it's "under $500", possibly, with used equipment and homebrew antennas, and really favorable propagation.  If I had to put together a SHTF "must communicate" station these days I think $5k would be a reasonable starting point, but only if I had terrain favorable to communication.  Yes, I've made mobile contacts from my truck to Eastern Europe and Russia, as well and most of Africa and the Americas, but I can't say that I'd be able to consistently "hit" a particular station with that kind of setup, particularly if the other station had similar equipment.

I applaud your knowledge. Ive soent enough time around radio communication as a private investigator to know what i dont know. And its alot. I have an adhd brain. And this type of knowledge requires a mathematician/engineer type.

I started to respond to this by saying, "And I'm neither", but had to stop myself because, while I don't consider myself to be either, I do have a degree in electrical engineering theory, and it's rare that I ever need a calculator.  I guess I do fit the type.

You really should get that ham license and get some practical experience to go along with your listening experience.  At the very least it gives you a Federal license and plausible reason for radio equipment in your vehicle that some jurisdictions might frown upon otherwise (such as scanners, and it exempts you from some "hands-free device" laws).

[Crosscut]

I think those with the capability could put together a net using HF. I think people living in local areas can get in touch with other like minded people.

The whole "gonna be restricted for emergency use" thing is tough.

But the reason we all exist and come here is to game out scenarios and responses.

And we haven't even talked about what we will do if ALIENS INVADE!!!! Which I'm not nearly prepared enough for.

Could a net be put together on HF?  Yes, of course it could.  Could an effective and capable one be put together at low cost?  Depends on your definition of low cost.  If it's "under $100", no, it cannot.  If it's "under $500", possibly, with used equipment and homebrew antennas, and really favorable propagation.  If I had to put together a SHTF "must communicate" station these days I think $5k would be a reasonable starting point, but only if I had terrain favorable to communication.  Yes, I've made mobile contacts from my truck to Eastern Europe and Russia, as well and most of Africa and the Americas, but I can't say that I'd be able to consistently "hit" a particular station with that kind of setup, particularly if the other station had similar equipment.

After being on my survival wishlist for a couple decades I finally decided to 'dive in' to HF in 2020 using Covid Cash.  $1,300 later and I barely got my feet wet   

If I should ever find myself with 5-10k of spare cash the board has my solemn pledge that I'll set up a LLC and apply for a business/industrial FCC license with some freqs in the 20-160m bands.  Something similar to Bran Ferren's WPQJ562 license, and you'll all be welcome to use it.  Until then however, all I could afford was to sign up at moab's backup forum

[woodsghost]

My HF deep dive in 2021 was $450-$500. But the flip side is I'm a little limited in capability compared to many $900 HF rigs and I am building my own gear. Which is an educational hurdle. So consider if one has more time or more money. I don't have a ton of either but I have more time than money so "home brew" it is!

[Blast]

Rather than quote the specific posters, I'm going to address concerns and questions about low-power, local Ham radio systems and attempt to show why they are still valuable.

1. You can't talk around the world. - True, with your basic Baofeng UV-5R handheld radio with stock antenna you will only have a talking range of range of 5-15 miles and a listening range of maybe 30 miles, depending on where you are standing and the terrain. However, in a SHTF situation, I'm going to be MUCH more interested in local news from my local organization. If you want to hear stuff from around the world add a shortwave receiver. I really love my $48 Tecsun PL-660 receiver for hearing what's going on in the world: https://amzn.to/35z13lU

2. Repeaters only last while they have power. - Most repeater systems are set up by amateur radio clubs for use during disasters and have backup energy sources, mostly solar. At least this is the case here in Texas and I suspect it is the same in other disaster-prone areas (hurricanes, earthquakes). At the very least, most have several days' worth of battery backups to maintain communication.

3. The government will kick everyone off the air. - When hurricane Ike hit Houston, the gov took over all cell phone towers, strictly for their use and blocked civilian use. They also took over landline phones. Saying it's better to just call people than try setting up a local ham organization suggests a polyannic optimism of what will be allowed.

4a. Cheap Baofeng radios have limited range. - As mentioned above, with their stock antenna they can only go 5-15 miles. If you are in a rural area with limited repeaters then this may seem pointless. That being said, that may be far enough to reach neighbors (who you should convince to by UFZS members!) to keep each other abreast of any important information. Also, it is very likely that any semi-organized group of raiders is using Baofengs to talk to each other. These radios have the ability to scan through their frequency, perhaps (okay polyannic optimism) to catch a signal from the raiders.

4b. Cheap Baofeng radios have limited range. - In more suburban and urban locations, especially those prone to disasters, a large network of reachable repeaters will likely be available. Check out www.repeaterbook.com to see what might be around you. Some of these repeaters can be connected to other repeaters in other states and even other countries, allowing conversation with people far away. At lunch I listen to the "Alaskan Morning Net" which is linked to repeaters across Alaska, Texas, Scotland, and other places. Yes, this does require the internet to be up. So be it.

4c. Cheap Baofeng radios have limited range. - Baofengs and most other ham radios have replaceable antennas. This allows you to either purchase better antennas or make your own. The antenna can be attached to the radio via a long cable so the antenna can be mounted on the roof, in a tree, hanging from a balloon, etc... I made "J-Pole" antennas from old, flat analog tv antenna wire but they can also be made from copper tubing. https://www.kaccradio.com/diy-j-pole-antenna-for-2-440/
The higher and better tuned the antenna, the farther your range will be.

-Blast

[NT2C]

Rather than repeat, I'll also go by the numbers:

1,2,3,4,5: The thread isn't about local comms because UFoZS is not just a local organization.  The thread is about keeping that organization in touch with each other, and that means at least national if not global comms.