2nd line (combat load) theory and discussion

[Moab]

Does anyone know of a lightweight chest rig like this thats cheaper?

https://www.moonlightinds.com/collections/chest-rigs/products/ak47-getaway-driver-chest-rig-7-62x39?variant=38275736928434

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

SKD Tactical makes something called the PIG UCR chest rig.

I'm not sure if they still make it, though. I'm finding the all MOLLE version on their site for 75 bucks, but I'm not seeing the UCR like I've got.

When I bought my UCR, it was about 125 bucks or so. Right now I've got it set up for my AR with 8 Pmags and 4 G17 mags.

[MacWa77ace]

Does anyone know of a lightweight chest rig like this thats cheaper?

https://www.moonlightinds.com/collections/chest-rigs/products/ak47-getaway-driver-chest-rig-7-62x39?variant=38275736928434

Moonlight Industries Getaway Driver Chest Rig 7.62X39


Are those pouches sewn on or velcroe'd on? Do you need an internal storage area like this one has?

Other than it comes with the pouches, and it has an internal storage compartment I don't see the difference between that one and my Tactical Tailor. which i paid 59.99 sans the pouches and the internal storage. [It might be $89.99 now] And look at the shoulder straps, my TT has padding on the straps. But it didn't come with any pouches. Originally I put condor pouches which were 2 triple rifle mag pouches and 2 double pistol mag pouches. IIRC that's about $60-70 on top of the chest rig or $120-130 total.  But then I upgraded and put 2 Esstac double-dual pouches and 2 single 556's on it. See photo's below. Those Pouches are way better than those elastic ones IMO, but those were $188 total, plus the 60 rig and that's $248 total now.

In this picture I've also added the Tactical Tailor Rogue Skeletonized cummerbund $46, it comes with the single strap just like the Moonlight one. Total rig expenditure. $294 not including the condors which are now repurposed.




What's cool about the modularity of this setup is that I can take off the skeletonized cummerbund, its just velcro'd, the two outside single Esstac rifle mag pouches will go with it reducing the number of rifle mags to 4. And then either put on the single strap that the chest rig came with to reduce the load by two mags, OR I can put the elastic cummerbund that came with my Rogue plate carrier on the chest rig if I want to add 4 more rifle mags or other equipment that will fit in the 4 internal slots in the elastic.

MODULARITY!!! 


Tactical Taylor Rogue Plate Carrier

For additional modularity I can either wear the chest rig with the shoulder straps over the plate carrier or peal off the placard from the chest rig, and the skeletonized cummerbund, and mount them directly to the plate carrier, velcro. And either leave the PC's elastic cummerbund on, which has extra storage, or remove it.

[Limon Man]

To continue with a few more options, I tend to keep my armor carrier pretty slick and wear it under a chest rig when needed, but I have setup the cummerbund to function as a very stripped down 2nd line when needed. 3 mags go on my off side, and a radio goes on my strong side; as pictured a windshirt is all that's needed to go unnoticed (a hood is fairly important to hide the hump at the top of the back) I've tested in numerous times around my wife, gun friends, and in town. Since I haven't found a good way to conceal an IFAK on this and keep it concealable I generally use an ankle kit with it.



Another option I've been playing with is a more stripped down lumbar pack; Its small and light enough it doesn't need suspenders which makes it much easier to pop on and off in conjunction with armor, chest rigs, or both. I can also loosen it and spin it around for access without taking it off, since its mostly meant as a supplement rather than a stand alone piece I only keep a few mags, and IFAK, and a dump pouch on it. The pack itself holds snacks, water, a poncho, some basic SERE items and sometimes a light jacket. Its short enough to fit under the rear plate of my armor and makes a great lower back pillow in a car to make armor more comfortable for short trips. This is about as close as I get to a "bump in the night" rig as it would be easy to throw on quickly and go check the property without having to fully gear up.



Since the butt pack is sewn directly to the belt and the contact point between the two is very wide this bounces far less than most any other butt pack I've used, and even less so when pinned under a rear plate.



This is the larger belt kit in use; as you can see it rides pretty low so a shorter pack can be worn above it if needed; but most of the time I find it to be plenty on its own.

What low profile armor carrier is this?

[Moab]

Does anyone know of a lightweight chest rig like this thats cheaper?

https://www.moonlightinds.com/collections/chest-rigs/products/ak47-getaway-driver-chest-rig-7-62x39?variant=38275736928434

Moonlight Industries Getaway Driver Chest Rig 7.62X39


Are those pouches sewn on or velcroe'd on? Do you need an internal storage area like this one has?

Other than it comes with the pouches, and it has an internal storage compartment I don't see the difference between that one and my Tactical Tailor. which i paid 59.99 sans the pouches and the internal storage. [It might be $89.99 now] And look at the shoulder straps, my TT has padding on the straps. But it didn't come with any pouches. Originally I put condor pouches which were 2 triple rifle mag pouches and 2 double pistol mag pouches. IIRC that's about $60-70 on top of the chest rig or $120-130 total.  But then I upgraded and put 2 Esstac double-dual pouches and 2 single 556's on it. See photo's below. Those Pouches are way better than those elastic ones IMO, but those were $188 total, plus the 60 rig and that's $248 total now.

In this picture I've also added the Tactical Tailor Rogue Skeletonized cummerbund $46, it comes with the single strap just like the Moonlight one. Total rig expenditure. $294 not including the condors which are now repurposed.




What's cool about the modularity of this setup is that I can take off the skeletonized cummerbund, its just velcro'd, the two outside single Esstac rifle mag pouches will go with it reducing the number of rifle mags to 4. And then either put on the single strap that the chest rig came with to reduce the load by two mags, OR I can put the elastic cummerbund that came with my Rogue plate carrier on the chest rig if I want to add 4 more rifle mags or other equipment that will fit in the 4 internal slots in the elastic.

MODULARITY!!! 


Tactical Taylor Rogue Plate Carrier

For additional modularity I can either wear the chest rig with the shoulder straps over the plate carrier or peal off the placard from the chest rig, and the skeletonized cummerbund, and mount them directly to the plate carrier, velcro. And either leave the PC's elastic cummerbund on, which has extra storage, or remove it.

That's not bad for $75. And i like your idea of starting with the Condor pouches

https://www.tacticaltailor.com/minimav-1.aspx

I dont know if that rig i posted has sewn on pouches or not. I just like that its so slim and lightweight. But the TT one looks good. Thanks for that post. That was alot. I really appreciate it.

[MacWa77ace]

That's not bad for $75. And i like your idea of starting with the Condor pouches

https://www.tacticaltailor.com/minimav-1.aspx

I dont know if that rig i posted has sewn on pouches or not. I just like that its so slim and lightweight. But the TT one looks good. Thanks for that post. That was alot. I really appreciate it.

That's the Mini Mav you've linked to. Mine's the Rogue, so I can't say how adaptive the MiniMav is. Shoulder straps are different also.
https://www.tacticaltailor.com/rogueadapatablechestrig.aspx
I got mine for less than the MSRP. You may find it for less on other distributors sites. Here it is on Amazon for less. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06ZYWSKMM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Moab]

That's not bad for $75. And i like your idea of starting with the Condor pouches

https://www.tacticaltailor.com/minimav-1.aspx

I dont know if that rig i posted has sewn on pouches or not. I just like that its so slim and lightweight. But the TT one looks good. Thanks for that post. That was alot. I really appreciate it.

That's the Mini Mav you've linked to. Mine's the Rogue, so I can't say how adaptive the MiniMav is. Shoulder straps are different also.
https://www.tacticaltailor.com/rogueadapatablechestrig.aspx
I got mine for less than the MSRP. You may find it for less on other distributors sites. Here it is on Amazon for less. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06ZYWSKMM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I actually prefer that lighter weight one. I wish i could get that moonlight one. But with just a molle panel. As its super light duty. And it would be "modular". I found one with a laser cut molle panel. I think thats what its called. Just one sheet of multicam fabric with molle cut outs. But more expensive iirc. I cant find the link.

Something like this.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tactical-MultiCam-Chest-Rig-Modular-Load-Bearing-Equipment-Adjustable-Strap-/304044750139?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

[RonnyRonin]

Sorry for the hijack. But you seem pretty up on current surplus web gear. Are there any good items in multicam around these days?

And what are the dimensions of that usmc ifake pouch?

Pretty much everything being made is either multicam or scorpion now, so you are spoiled for choice. Of course some of the prices are still high on certain items until the market gets more flooded. The IFAK is more or less the size of a 200rd SAW pouch, but 3 PALS channels wide rather than 4.

What low profile armor carrier is this?

Home made. The First Spear Sleeper was my main inspiration but I lined the inside with 10mm spacer mesh for extra cushion and ventilation.

Wait... Surplus stores carry "expired" bandages?! Sounds like I need to rediscover the surplus stores near Lewis McChord next time I'm down there! I just spent several hundred bucks building 2 IFAK kits and restocking lost trauma supplies (United Airlines lost my whole med kit a few years ago).
If I can find "expired" stuff cheap, I'll stock my supplies far deeper.

We've paid as little as $5 for CATs still in the package, and occasionally find chest seals, decomp needles and quickclot gauze. Highly recommend looking around.

[Moab]

Sorry for the hijack. But you seem pretty up on current surplus web gear. Are there any good items in multicam around these days?

And what are the dimensions of that usmc ifake pouch?

Pretty much everything being made is either multicam or scorpion now, so you are spoiled for choice. Of course some of the prices are still high on certain items until the market gets more flooded. The IFAK is more or less the size of a 200rd SAW pouch, but 3 PALS channels wide rather than 4.

What low profile armor carrier is this?

Home made. The First Spear Sleeper was my main inspiration but I lined the inside with 10mm spacer mesh for extra cushion and ventilation.

Wait... Surplus stores carry "expired" bandages?! Sounds like I need to rediscover the surplus stores near Lewis McChord next time I'm down there! I just spent several hundred bucks building 2 IFAK kits and restocking lost trauma supplies (United Airlines lost my whole med kit a few years ago).
If I can find "expired" stuff cheap, I'll stock my supplies far deeper.

We've paid as little as $5 for CATs still in the package, and occasionally find chest seals, decomp needles and quickclot gauze. Highly recommend looking around.

I looked on ebay for multicam. And didnt find much under 15 bucks. Ill search scorpion.

Ive gotta find better surplus stores. Im going to Seattle on the 17th. Maybe ill drive down to fort lewis. And see if i can find any good surplus stores.

[Moab]

Heres the one i was talking about. It holds 3 to 6 mags. 5 being standard. The outside is laser cut molle holes. Its very lightweight. And modular of course. And it comes in multicam.

https://beezcombatsystems.com/AR-LE-Chest-Rig-GRID-BCS-CR-AR-LEG-1000.htm

They also sell an AK47 version, an AK 74 version and several others.

[MacWa77ace]

That's not bad for $75. And i like your idea of starting with the Condor pouches

https://www.tacticaltailor.com/minimav-1.aspx

I dont know if that rig i posted has sewn on pouches or not. I just like that its so slim and lightweight. But the TT one looks good. Thanks for that post. That was alot. I really appreciate it.

That's the Mini Mav you've linked to. Mine's the Rogue, so I can't say how adaptive the MiniMav is. Shoulder straps are different also.
https://www.tacticaltailor.com/rogueadapatablechestrig.aspx
I got mine for less than the MSRP. You may find it for less on other distributors sites. Here it is on Amazon for less. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06ZYWSKMM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I actually prefer that lighter weight one. I wish i could get that moonlight one. But with just a molle panel. As its super light duty. And it would be "modular". I found one with a laser cut molle panel. I think thats what its called. Just one sheet of multicam fabric with molle cut outs. But more expensive iirc. I cant find the link.

Something like this.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tactical-MultiCam-Chest-Rig-Modular-Load-Bearing-Equipment-Adjustable-Strap-/304044750139?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

Yeah, Laser cut webbing is lighter than standard molle weave. The back of that one IIRC is called an 'H' back vs the cross back.

The TT Rogue is only 0.80 lbs, the mini mav doesn't have a weight listed. I didn't see one on the EBAY one either.

[RoneKiln]

Ive gotta find better surplus stores. Im going to Seattle on the 17th. Maybe ill drive down to fort lewis. And see if i can find any good surplus stores.

Half a lifetime ago there was a cluster of great ones just outside the north entrance of Camp Murray. I know there are still at least 2 there, but I have no idea how good they are anymore. There used to be several really tiny ones tied into laundry and tailoring services packed full of stuff the troops sold to them for near nothing.

If your trip brings you north closer to the border, I'll buy ya a beer or three.

[Moab]

Ive gotta find better surplus stores. Im going to Seattle on the 17th. Maybe ill drive down to fort lewis. And see if i can find any good surplus stores.

Half a lifetime ago there was a cluster of great ones just outside the north entrance of Camp Murray. I know there are still at least 2 there, but I have no idea how good they are anymore. There used to be several really tiny ones tied into laundry and tailoring services packed full of stuff the troops sold to them for near nothing.

If your trip brings you north closer to the border, I'll buy ya a beer or three.

Im getting my teeth worked on. On the reservation at Swinomish. Otherwise id meet you halfway or something. Thats cool that you live there. When we move home next year i plan to move to either Granite Falls or Darrington.

Ill look up some reviews of surplus stores. And see which ones are worth looking into. Very few good ones down here by me. As far as real surplus goes.

[RonnyRonin]

Probably the lightest chest rig you can get is something like the Blue Force Gear 10sp chest rig; while the beez has many lightweight features it still amounts to several layers of fabric to make the internal pouches. Any skeletonized/single layer laser cut modular chest rig also has to have pouch weight factored in; the single layer of elastic webbing for rifle mags is about as light as you can go.

The army surplus TAP is something like a very very heavy beez if price is more of a concern than weight; like most things standard issue it has entirely too many layers and a few too many features, but with some judicious scissor application its not the worst option.

[Moab]

Probably the lightest chest rig you can get is something like the Blue Force Gear 10sp chest rig; while the beez has many lightweight features it still amounts to several layers of fabric to make the internal pouches. Any skeletonized/single layer laser cut modular chest rig also has to have pouch weight factored in; the single layer of elastic webbing for rifle mags is about as light as you can go.

The army surplus TAP is something like a very very heavy beez if price is more of a concern than weight; like most things standard issue it has entirely too many layers and a few too many features, but with some judicious scissor application its not the worst option.

I see that.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/USGI-OCP-Multicam-Molle-II-Tactical-Assault-Panel-TAP-Chest-Rig-GOOD-USED-/234024390024?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

What would u trim?

[Tony D Tiger]

Ive gotta find better surplus stores. Im going to Seattle on the 17th. Maybe ill drive down to fort lewis. And see if i can find any good surplus stores.

Half a lifetime ago there was a cluster of great ones just outside the north entrance of Camp Murray. I know there are still at least 2 there, but I have no idea how good they are anymore. There used to be several really tiny ones tied into laundry and tailoring services packed full of stuff the troops sold to them for near nothing.

If your trip brings you north closer to the border, I'll buy ya a beer or three.

that strip has changed somewhat, but there's a surplus store that looks like a small house on the main strip; used to have pallet boxes of gear you could dig thru doesn't look like it's changed at all.

[Moab]

Ive gotta find better surplus stores. Im going to Seattle on the 17th. Maybe ill drive down to fort lewis. And see if i can find any good surplus stores.

Half a lifetime ago there was a cluster of great ones just outside the north entrance of Camp Murray. I know there are still at least 2 there, but I have no idea how good they are anymore. There used to be several really tiny ones tied into laundry and tailoring services packed full of stuff the troops sold to them for near nothing.

If your trip brings you north closer to the border, I'll buy ya a beer or three.

that strip has changed somewhat, but there's a surplus store that looks like a small house on the main strip; used to have pallet boxes of gear you could dig thru doesn't look like it's changed at all.

I checked google reviews tonite. There is one with over 200 reviews. Looks like a good place. Called Washington Military Depot. In Spanaway. But i want to check out Lakewood too.

Ive hijacked this thread like a dozen times. My apologies Ronny

[RonnyRonin]

What would u trim?

The lowest hanging fruit is the mesh pockets on the user side, especially that giant zipper. Depending on how you plan to retain magazines you might be able to trim all the flaps off as well. I removed one of the dividers to create larger pocket for a FAK insert. There are some plastic sheets off to the sides to stiffen some of the pockets if I recall, if you could remove that you'd likely be ahead.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

Anyone heard of or used anything made by a company called "Guard Dog" ?

I've been seeing a lot of their stuff on Classic Firearms and it looks interesting. The plate carriers and chest rigs are about 70 to 120 bucks, so the price is within range for most folks looking for a budget carrier or chest rig.

Only thing keeping me from grabbing one of their carriers is the fact I've never heard of this company until this past year.

[Moab]

Anyone heard of or used anything made by a company called "Guard Dog" ?

I've been seeing a lot of their stuff on Classic Firearms and it looks interesting. The plate carriers and chest rigs are about 70 to 120 bucks, so the price is within range for most folks looking for a budget carrier or chest rig.

Only thing keeping me from grabbing one of their carriers is the fa t I've never heard of this company until this past year.

Isnt ar500 or whatever its called cheaper?