2nd line (combat load) theory and discussion

[Optimist]

Maybe I'm weak the art of search-fu, but if this is your second line gear what is your first line gear and how does it ties in with the second line?

You're not wrong, it's pretty off-topic on my part. Sorry.

[MacWa77ace]

Maybe I'm weak the art of search-fu, but if this is your second line gear what is your first line gear and how does it ties in with the second line?

First line is your EDC CCW and/or any folder or other on body defensive and safety equipment.

[MacWa77ace]

Esstac has these belt/molle plastic clips. They would work on any molle equipment to attach to a 1.75 or 2 in belts.
They might be too big for 1 or 1.5 street belts.



there are hard plastic molle clips, they might work better to keep stuff 'tighter' on the street belts.

Thanks! I actually have some of those Esstac clips somewhere that I had forgot about. I could give them a try with some of the pouches I already own instead of buying stuff.

I don't see anything in leather. What about something like this ?

I think something like that could work well, although I would have to add shoulder straps to it as belt-only fanny packs do not stay up on me.

I actually want to make a post about getting something along the lines of a Maxpedition Versipack/Gearslinger (or a Chinese knockoff for testing purposes). I might want something like that for use in the woods, and I'm pretty sure I want one as my general-purpose emergency bag for things like house fires and earthquakes.

One thing about the fanny pack/Versipack size of bags is that they often max out at about a Glock 17 size of handgun. My woods gun for the last few years has been a Ruger Redhawk .44 mag and I just got a folding pistol brace for my Glock 40 to test out. I need to get measurements for my Glock in the brace but it's probably going to be about 15" I'm guessing.

Maxpedition is actually having a BOGO sale right now but I figure I need to actually test the brace and the concept of such a bag with a cheaper alternative before I drop that kind of money, even at sale prices.

[eugenenine]

Maybe I'm weak the art of search-fu, but if this is your second line gear what is your first line gear and how does it ties in with the second line?

You're not wrong, it's pretty off-topic on my part. Sorry.

Sorry, guess I should have quoted the OP. I was just wondering what his other lines of gear looked like and how they fit together as a whole

[MacWa77ace]

Maybe I'm weak the art of search-fu, but if this is your second line gear what is your first line gear and how does it ties in with the second line?

You're not wrong, it's pretty off-topic on my part. Sorry.

Sorry, guess I should have quoted the OP. I was just wondering what his other lines of gear looked like and how they fit together as a whole

First line is what you grab for immediate use in the event you need to defend yourself. And/or gets you to your second line. First line is usually onbody EDC or offbody but carried daily for immediate use. Self defense or home defense.

I remember a WWYD topic on the old ZS, about, IIRC,  "what do you have right next to you right now to defend yourself?" There were some funny responses, like a stapler, or a chair. But its all first line.


Other Examples:
Night stand pistol gets you to your gun safe.
EDC CCW gets you to your trunk gun.
Backpack or soft body armor possibly if worn EDC.

2nd line takes time to equip, and may not even be immediately available to you. It can be stored in your car or your house or office. And is not usually worn continually, unless there is some sort of extreme event, or you're doing some kind of training with it. So generally you switch from one to the other or you can intermix if it makes sense and you don't have useless redundancies.

This is my current EDC firstline. It weighs less than 3 lbs.
Surefire
Walther
Zero Tolerance


This is my second line gear and it weighs 60 lbs +. >> https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=222.msg17268#msg17268

[MacWa77ace]

Level 4 ceramic plate official tap and torque test video.

Do level 4 ceramic plates expire. << This is good to know info regarding the lifespan of Lvl IV ceramic plates.

[MacWa77ace]

[MacWa77ace]

This is annoying. I'm looking into getting some Esstac mag pouches for my new plate carrier and a setup of 2+1 pouch for a belt setup during the Florida Guns & Gear sales tax holiday.

I have a 'large' lightweight plate carrier with 11x14 plates and I'm able to put a placard with 4 pouches on the front of it.



I recently got this new one, with 10x12 plates, but it looks like I won't be able to mount 4 mag pouches directly on it, which is what i was hoping for. It looks like I'm going to have to rig a 4 pouch placard to the front. Then a single mag pouch on each side for a total of 6. Or just mount 3 pouches to the front. That would be 1 lb less than having 4 pouches.



I got the 10x12's because I wanted a lighter setup for reasons. They are 8.5lbs each plate and the carrier is spec'd at 3.6 lbs. [unconfirmed via actual measurement]  2(8.5)+3.6= 20.6lbs  and my 11x14 setup is 11lbs each plate and 0.3 lbs for the carrier [it's a really good light weight carrier with laser cut molle]. = 22.3 lbs.

Testudo Gen II
Weight
3.6 lbs
Dimensions
15.5 × 12.5 × 3 in



Apparently didn't reduce the weight much.  Only 1.7 lbs. And now I'll have to add a placard.


Anyhow, still saving up for Florida's sales tax free guns and gear holiday, and will probably buy ammo from Ammunition Depot which is Florida based but It'd be nice to get this stuff tax free too. 

[MacWa77ace]

Measure twice, cut once...

I've been looking at this Esstac 4 mag pouch molle setup in Multi-cam, but it won't properly mount directly on the new rig. I've been trying to figure out how to get 4 upfront.


Change of direction,
This Esstac QUAD Daeodon Front Panel 5.56 Tall KYWI Pouch will work. I can't afford it right now but I did order some metal 'G' buckles to attach it to the front of the plate carrier. It's main attachment is hook velcro on the back, the buckles are just insurance I guess. This will give me my 4 up front, and then there will be a single on each of the sides, and a 2+1 gap a the belt. Plus a 5 rnd shotgun card.




The G buckles were $7 on Amazon. These are lower profile than the polymer buckles.

But I have to call Esstac because I'd like to make sure those male plastic buckles that come on Daeodon are removable and not sewn on. The G buckles will sit much lower profile and would be preferred, but I can always just get some more of the female buckles in tan they offer. [I already have a few in black but they won't go with the multi-cam. It's not a deal breaker but my way seems better.

1" Female ITW QASM Buckle (Set of Two) $4.50



FETA/Rant: Why the frick do manufacturers permanently sew on those plastic buckles. I'm dealing with a broken buckle on a backpack right now. It's one of those smallish ones that connects the shoulder straps across your chest. The male one broke. Both male and female are sewn on. I want to swap them with those plastic buckles you see on paracord bracelets as they are the right size, what a pain. 

[Dabster]

Slightly off-topic but I've been looking for belt pouches that fit regular old pants belts and everything I find seems to be MOLLE/PALS. I'm glad that stuff is so readily available, but I'm looking for a few pouches that will fit my leather belt (double layer heavy leather with a kydex stiffener, so it's a bit more than a regular belt).
Most of the products I find online say they also work with pants belts but in the pictures they just run the belt through the MOLLE straps. In my experience this makes for a super loose and floppy pouch that's incredibly annoying. Maybe there's some trick I'm missing?
Hiking/jogging stuff all seems to have moved to water bladders or tiny bottles you hold in your hand while running. I tried looking for "duty" pouches on LAPG but they were mostly focused on tiny stuff like handcuffs and pepper spray.
I've been wanting to replace carrying a daypack when out on short hikes with belt pouches. A water bottle pouch or two, FAK, holster, knife and possibles/GP pouch. I've been thinking about maybe spending the money on one of the two layer inner-outer belt systems that seem possible these days but was thinking it would be cheaper to test out how I like it with my existing heavy leather belt first. Maybe I need to buy some knockoff Chinese inner-outer belt system for testing and then upgrade to a more durable one if I decide I like it?
Edit: I also have a preference for more outdoorsy looking pouches and less tactical looking pouches. I never seem to run into anyone out in the woods but I seem to frequently run into tourists while getting ready to go out and I'm self-conscious about feeling like a chunky mall ninja.

ANOTHER great thread. WRT this question, I have upgraded all of my Kydex holsters to have something like this:


Very fast to hook on and they almost magically clip around the bottom of my belt and have a very secure grip.

Not sure if it will work but thought I'd suggest it.