ALICE, the most versitile ruck there is?

[Ghost]

EDIT - 7-10-22
Now that I've largely completed the "construction phase" of the packs I'm modifying the first post to reflect some learnings.

1. The ALICE isn't a great pack stock, but once modified? It's completely different  beast. YMMV but for me and my needs it's near perfect.

2. The following are a must:
- replace all metal buckles, snaps, etc with parachute buckles. We'll worth it and will run you about $45 for the seven needed. I used Dritz buckles available at Joanns craft stores.

- MOLLE shoulder straps. Far better than the ALICE ones. Might not look like it but you can get them to attach.

- MOLLE waist/kidney pad. Adjusted right it will take almost all the load of the pack.

- carrying handle. I went with making a paracord one; this has the advantage of extra cordage on the pack with a use rather than just sitting there as it were.

- Flexseal. These packs are (often) older and the barrier in the map case breaks down. Grab a can and really easy to repair. Some people also seal the tops of the three outside pouches, up to you.

- eyelets. Small thing put run some bank line through them and tie off. Easy way to carry stuff.

3. Sleep system
This is the biggest issue IMO. Very little connects perfectly to the bottom. So far a $25 compression sack and the M1967 sleeping bag carrier has worked best.

4. Water
Right now I'm still running with the water bladder in the middle outside pocket and routing the hose to the right shoulder strap. This works well but still looking at the "void space" in the mid to upper back area. I'm hiking several times a week testing it so I'll have some practical time with it.

5. Stitching
Don't be afraid of upping some of the stitching on the straps. An X-acto knife used judiciously will give you enough clearance on getting buckles on. Liquid Stitch or Epoxy resin set for several days works wonders.

Original post:
Title isn't meant to start anything just commentary, nothing more.

For years I kept trying to find an alternative to my medium ALICE pack, but I'm not really sure why. IMO they are the best. I've swapped out all the old metal buckles for plastic quick connect ones, I'm guessing everyone knows about the Hellcat mod, etc, but what about water? The obvious solution is to get some canteens that go with the ALICE clips and attach to the side, but what about a water bladder? I had thought about stitching something in the main bag section, but didn't want to take away space.

I just though of it but what about stashing a water bladder. So without and special modifications I was able to just route the tube through the various loops to the ones I sewed on the left straps and bam, water bladder with tube. (After typing all this out I wonder about rigging up something in the "void space" of the pack and the frame...) EDIT #2- I found placing the bladder in a smallish size dry sack with a cinch top and it fits perfectly.

Downside? It takes up one of the outer pouches. The upside is there is no real modification to it. If one wants to revert it back there is nothing to change and the pouch is ready to go.

Other than dedicating a single outside pouch I really can't think of a downside.

Comments welcome.

[Anianna]

I don't have an ALICE pack to play with at the moment, but couldn't it lay flat atop secured with the roll straps?  I feel like there should be enough strap to secure a roll and a full bladder up there, but maybe it would get too loose as the water was consumed. 

Would it work if you have a bladder in a slim backpack like the ones marketed for sports to maybe put the ALICE straps through the backpack straps, instead, so the backpack sits on top and is secured by the straps but the straps won't be affected by the deflation of the bladder?

[Ghost]

I don't have an ALICE pack to play with at the moment, but couldn't it lay flat atop secured with the roll straps?  I feel like there should be enough strap to secure a roll and a full bladder up there, but maybe it would get too loose as the water was consumed.

Your suspicion is correct, enough slack on the loops but would get loose, plus still have to keep it in some sack.

Would it work if you have a bladder in a slim backpack like the ones marketed for sports to maybe put the ALICE straps through the backpack straps, instead, so the backpack sits on top and is secured by the straps but the straps won't be affected by the deflation of the bladder?

Saw something similar with the large ALICE packs: dude had small sport type pack sit inside the large ALICE. I'm thinking for a medium pack though that's too much space.

[Rednex]

What about this, we take a water bladder pouch like this. It has thin shoulder strap so it can be hung on the Alice fram between the frame and the pack.

https://smile.amazon.com/Condor-Hydration-Bladder-Carrier-Black/dp/B0082CW6U0/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2Q7F0SQ9HH0NN&keywords=molle+water+bladder+pouch&qid=1648766800&sprefix=molle+water%2Caps%2C66&sr=8-5

[Ghost]

Certainly possible. I've got a small hydration one and I placed it in there. I would fit but adds a another set of straps so not sure I want to go that route. I can sew fairly well so I wonder if I make some straps that attach/support it.

Then of course I keep coming back to my original idea so maybe I'm overthinking it.

[SCBrian]

I second what has been posted above.  A buddy I backpack with uses an old Alice and used to try to fit the bladder inside it.  He made the change to one that was designed to strap to the outside of the pack and he couldnt be happier.  It returns the lost space back to him, and removal for fillups is a hella lot easier.  Ofttimes he doesn't even need to remove his pack, He'll turn to me and ask me to disconnect his camelback and he'll fill.  Then I'll reattach...  Other benifits are it's removable and has it's own straps so if he's dayhiking or whatever, he can just bring his water with him as opposed to the whole pack

[Ghost]

Ok so taking in the feedback I dug out my Coleman Revel 8 that the water bladder goes into and sure enough tucks right into the void space of the frame. Only changes: going to attaché a d-ring from the top to hang it from and get a large enough black or green dry sack to stuff it in; that will keep all the straps out of the way and cover up the fact is blue and yellow... seems simple enough. Added benefit is a water bladder on the lower back area, nice for cushion.

[Ghost]

Also, pics. I finished sewing and have heavily reinforced all threads then used the super glue that sorta melts stuff to fuse it further.

Further mods complete
- obligatory paracord handle; I used 1100 for it. Wanted it thick and sturdy. That thing ain't going anywhere. First time I ever twisted paracord. Once I got the hang of it it went quick.

- homemade pace/ranger beads. The reason for yellow on the "last two"
A visual reminder that it's almost time to recycle the whole count. Simple enough to swap later if I want something less conspicuous.

-chest strap, nabbed from a rigid frame Kelty backpack.

- buckle mods: Dremeled out all the old metal hardware and replaced all with parachute/quick connect buckled, so much more handy.

- threaded through some paracord in the eyelets on the back.

- as of right now I have the Kelty back pad attached. I like the feel and it sits on my hips/lower back well. The concern is it's only attached by two straps that hold tension horizontally. Debating the Molle II back pad instead.

Before that however, I'm waiting in the arrival of my M1967 sleeping bag carrier before making the final decision. It fits with where I want it to go. As I might be getting an ultralight bag down the road it should work out. Not a fan of the bed roll or any part of the sleep system up on the top of the pack. I don't like the Molle Sleep system some use. As I use a Kymet ultra light pad it can easily go in the pack with the wobbie. So the M1967 just has to account for my bag in a longer dry sack (not pictured).

Still to do:
- need four more parachute/quick connect buckles. I have one more old metal connector to swap out. The other three? Two if I go with the Kelty back pad and one for possibly hooking up the Coleman backpack inside the Alice frame.

- ALICE canteens. I'm thinking two, even if empty would be good with the ALICE clips to each side. Even if empty the utility of having more is a factor. This goes along with one of my outside pouches which contains a Lifestraw, filters, purification tablets and Lifestraw Go; basically a hydration pouch. You'll notice a theme: water is life...









 

[NapalmMan67]

Do you use your rucks with a frame? I found that they sit to high on my backside and were uncomfortable, even with the Hellcat mod.

Maybe just me?  Pictures are not visible, just shows plain outlined white blocks.

[Ghost]

Do you use your rucks with a frame? I found that they sit to high on my backside and were uncomfortable, even with the Hellcat mod.

Maybe just me?  Pictures are not visible, just shows plain outlined white blocks.

What does this resolve to?
http://www.dogsofwaronline.com/images/willmark/prepper/IMG_3294.jpeg

[flybynight]

Do you use your rucks with a frame? I found that they sit to high on my backside and were uncomfortable, even with the Hellcat mod.

Maybe just me?  Pictures are not visible, just shows plain outlined white blocks.

What does this resolve to?
http://www.dogsofwaronline.com/images/willmark/prepper/IMG_3294.jpeg

Right click and open in new tab and the pics work just fine

[NapalmMan67]

Do you use your rucks with a frame? I found that they sit to high on my backside and were uncomfortable, even with the Hellcat mod.

Maybe just me?  Pictures are not visible, just shows plain outlined white blocks.

What does this resolve to?
http://www.dogsofwaronline.com/images/willmark/prepper/IMG_3294.jpeg 

Blank screen.

Do you use your rucks with a frame? I found that they sit to high on my backside and were uncomfortable, even with the Hellcat mod.

Maybe just me?  Pictures are not visible, just shows plain outlined white blocks.

What does this resolve to?
http://www.dogsofwaronline.com/images/willmark/prepper/IMG_3294.jpeg

Right click and open in new tab and the pics work just fine 

Nope.



I'm used to it, this is not the only site I can't see pictures on when using.

[Ghost]

Molle back pad and M1967 sleep carrier have been procured. Hope to wrap up my bag next week with the upgrades.

Next is converting the rest of the family packs to the same standard as the next project. Even the medium might be too much for my daughter, despite being in her late teens she's small and thin, might be too much for her.

[Ghost]

Largely finished my BOB, or should I say revamped it.

Still have some things to decide on the water bladder so its place it in one pocket for now. MOLLE Back pad is fairly faded rather than the color it should be, for now it will do and fits well; fortunately didn't spend too much on it. The M-1967 sleeping bag carrier lines up well on the pack. I did reverse it so its "upside down" as it were and took off the medal slide hardware and put on quick connect parachute snaps.

I went with the idea of packing lighter from the very start, but still ended with a lot. Next step is t swap out gear with higher quality and/or lighter gear but it accomplished my goal of revamping my get out of dodge pack. Next up is getting another ALICE for my son's pack and doing the same upgrades. After that there are two smaller ALICE pack type bags at a semi-local surplus store nearby. I want to look them over first before buying. The are listed as small which might fit for my wife and daughter who are on the smaller side.

Anyways, photos. This was late last night and haven't really gone through and optimized, I just wanted to see if it all fit.

[Lettuce Pray]

Nice job. Just out of curiosity, how tall are you? I would love to see your loadout and how much weight you carry in it. I have not rucked with an ALICE in years (we got issued MOLLE 2 rucks in 2009).  If I am not mistaken, it tends to work best for people with shorter torsos unless you are wearing a buttpack to raise it up. I bought a large ALICE that I hope to be using as the base component for an upcoming INCH system project. I filled it up about halfway and tried it on with a Helikon-Tex buttpack/suspenders but that is as far as I have gotten.

[Moab]

I used an alice pack in the USMC. I doubt you can find a more bulletproof affordable pack. I own two for my family. One is a large alice pack knockoff. And one is a medium spec ops. Which are way nicer than a stock alice. But you have to catch their sales.

But...

They're made in one size fits all. And the number one thing you need to before buying a pack is get fitted for one. They do this for free at any rei or outdoor shop. Or you can find instructions online.

Everyones torso are different lengths. And your waistbelt should hold a good portion of the weight on your pelvis. Not your shoulders.

I'm 6'3" and need a 21 inch sized backpack iirc. Which translates into a large. The Alice is not that. I suffered thru years of its use in the Marine Corps. Lol. It rides pretty much entirely in my shoulders. The waist belt hits me fairly far above my hips.

So just keep that in mind. And olease get yourself fitted before buying a pack. Its essential.

Second from left is the spec ops. Very high quality alice. I got it onsale for $50. But they normally run $150 iirc. Third from left is knockoff large alice. I dont like the snaps that hold the pockets down. But its good enough.

Keep in mind you have a choice between large and medium.

You cannot view this attachment.

[Ghost]

Nice job. Just out of curiosity, how tall are you? I would love to see your loadout and how much weight you carry in it. I have not rucked with an ALICE in years (we got issued MOLLE 2 rucks in 2009).  If I am not mistaken, it tends to work best for people with shorter torsos unless you are wearing a buttpack to raise it up. I bought a large ALICE that I hope to be using as the base component for an upcoming INCH system project. I filled it up about halfway and tried it on with a Helikon-Tex buttpack/suspenders but that is as far as I have gotten.

5'7" It fits me perfectly. With the MOLLE 2 backpad it has 99% of the weight sitting right on the hips or at least it feels that way.

About the only thing I can see right now is not a lot of "room" on the shoulder straps which I'll need to adjust. I don't weight a ton (I weight lift and practice karate so fairly fit) but we get four seasons around here. In winter it would be a bit tight if my jacket was too bulky. Right now I'm looking at more modular jackets that can be layered and I tend to be hot all the time. I'm the type of guy who wears shorts all year round and can get by with hiking pants that convert to shorts and long underwear when winter camping.

As far as the load out its a work in progress as I jammed it in there to see it all fit. Next up is refining it and getting the bulk lower. For clothing I've got some vacuum seal bags, the kind people who travel a lot use. Sure rolling it works too but you can get stuff fairly small or at least thing with those bags. Basically hook it up to the vacuum after the clothes are folded in it and bam "thin" clothing.

[Ghost]

Follow up. I also reinforced a lot of the stitching with Liquid Stitch. Holy Crap this stuff is strong. Place it where you want, clamp it and 30 minutes later its dry and not coming apart.

I got it at Joann's fabrics for $8 for a 2 fl oz bottle.
https://www.amazon.com/Dritz-PRY-653111-653111-Liquid-Multicolor/dp/B0018NA0F8/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=liquid%2Bstitch&qid=1650495674&sr=8-2&th=1

[NapalmMan67]

Follow up. I also reinforced a lot of the stitching with Liquid Stitch. Holy Crap this stuff is strong. Place it where you want, clamp it and 30 minutes later its dry and not coming apart.

I got it at Joann's fabrics for $8 for a 2 fl oz bottle.
https://www.amazon.com/Dritz-PRY-653111-653111-Liquid-Multicolor/dp/B0018NA0F8/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=liquid%2Bstitch&qid=1650495674&sr=8-2&th=1

Yep, good stuff.  My mom used to use it on occasion.

[Ghost]

Next up is getting another ALICE for my son's pack and doing the same upgrades.

I was able to snag an ALICE at a decent price last week in good shape with a brand new frame. Time to update the buckles which arrived a few days ago.

After that there are two smaller ALICE pack type bags at a semi-local surplus store nearby. I want to look them over first before buying. The are listed as small which might fit for my wife and daughter who are on the smaller side.

Likewise checked these out in person and even with the "GI style" being sturdier the basic problem is they are too small. So I might be looking at ALICE Medium rucks for my wife and daughter.