Knife Chat: Slicing to the meat of all things sharp

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

CBP catches about <10% of the counterfeit crap that comes in on a daily basis but as soon as they identify one and add them to their banned importers list the company folds up, changes names, and is back in business a day later.

Kind of like how Lorcin/Bryco/Jimenez/whatever the hell they're called now stays in business.

Except those guys operate for a few years, put out crappy guns, fold, change names and start the cycle again.

As for counterfeit blades, I used to have a pair of Kershaw Leek clones that were pretty close to the actual models. No markings on them, though.

[MacWa77ace]

that's why I'm suspicious of the photos on that Chinese wholesale site. they all have the logos and the appropriate boxes.

They get around that by labeling it Bentchmade or Glerber or something.

But there's also the chance that some of those brands have an 'exclusive' agreement with a Chinese MFR, to produce a specific design for import and resale in the west, a MFR who is then selling that 'exclusive design' behind their back. So you're getting the actual thing just with no markings.

I work for a North American manufacturer, and one year I went to the biggest annual trade show our industry has and  a couple of different times a group of representatives from 'Chinese' MFR's came in and were photographing our stuff from every angle, pretending to be tourists.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

that's why I'm suspicious of the photos on that Chinese wholesale site. they all have the logos and the appropriate boxes.

They get around that by labeling it Bentchmade or Glerber or something.

But there's also the chance that some of those brands have an 'exclusive' agreement with a Chinese MFR, to produce a specific design for import and resale in the west, a MFR who is then selling that 'exclusive design' behind their back. So you're getting the actual thing just with no markings.

I work for a North American manufacturer, and one year I went to the biggest annual trade show our industry has and  a couple of different times a group of representatives from 'Chinese' MFR's came in and were photographing our stuff from every angle, pretending to be tourists.

Don't most trade shows have rules against photos of stuff ?

I know SHOT Show has a specific area of the show floor set aside for stuff that's not meant for the public eye just yet and there's rules about no video or photos in the area. I'd have figured knife shows would have something similar.

[MacWa77ace]

I don't know, It probably depends, this one I guess not. I've been to some as a guest not work related and could take photos.

But seriously our websites have photos so detailed that I don't know why they need to do that other than some of the stuff is 'next years' models. And that stuff isn't on the website. But they shot the old stuff too. 

[NT2C]

that's why I'm suspicious of the photos on that Chinese wholesale site. they all have the logos and the appropriate boxes.

They get around that by labeling it Bentchmade or Glerber or something.

But there's also the chance that some of those brands have an 'exclusive' agreement with a Chinese MFR, to produce a specific design for import and resale in the west, a MFR who is then selling that 'exclusive design' behind their back. So you're getting the actual thing just with no markings.

I work for a North American manufacturer, and one year I went to the biggest annual trade show our industry has and  a couple of different times a group of representatives from 'Chinese' MFR's came in and were photographing our stuff from every angle, pretending to be tourists.

Allow me to introduce you to my $40 eBay "Benchmade" assisted flipper.  Came in a Benchmade box too.



Guaranteed it was never even close to a Benchmade factory.  Reported the seller to eBay, they're still selling the same knife six months later.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

I don't know, It probably depends, this one I guess not. I've been to some as a guest not work related and could take photos.

But seriously our websites have photos so detailed that I don't know why they need to do that other than some of the stuff is 'next years' models. And that stuff isn't on the website. But they shot the old stuff too. 

I wonder if it's because of restrictions on internet in China ?

I know some sites are banned, so maybe the company website is on the ban list or something like that.

[MacWa77ace]

Zero Tolerance 0452CF; Pocket Knife with 4.1" Dual-Finished S35VN Steel Blade, Carbon Fiber Front and Titanium Back Handle Scales, KVT Ball-Bearing Opening, Frame Lock, Deep-Carry Pocketclip; 4.6 OZ.,Large

$224
Big knife 



I'm not a back blade flipper enthusiast though, [because you have to 'de-grip' the knife to use it] and there is no thumb stud on the blade of this one.

I think I'm ready to take the training wheels off and move to a 4+" bladed EDC folder, but want a thumbstud assisted open.

Guaranteed it was never even close to a Benchmade factory.  Reported the seller to eBay, they're still selling the same knife six months later.

  Did you add your verified purchaser 0 stars review?

[Moab]

(Sorry guys. I know this is long. My first coffee of the day. Had to get some thoughts out. Lol.)

Not sure if your going to the same site. But its dhgate not hdgate. I couldnt get your link to work, Mac.

Here's their list of folding knifes. But you can narrow it down to assisted etc etc. And you have to select which model and options before it will show a price for purchasing one.

https://www.dhgate.com/wholesale/folding-knife/s.html

Most do not have a minimum order quantity. And, nt2c, I would avoid Benchmade clones. I have not had good luck with the one I bought. Especially the bug out. Which I think is a light weight box cutter to begin with. But I bought that one on wish. Which is known to suck. Some of the Benchmades on dhgate look very good though.

Alot of these clones come from the factories where the originals are made. They put a second or night shift on. And make a run of "clones". Then sell them thru secondary vendors. (This goes for most knock offs. From cigerettes to mops.)

The ones I have received are very high quality. There are also very good knives being made in China. By original manufacturers. As I would guess most knifes are made in China now. Even from most of the known manufacturers. You will see highend original chinese knife makers on dhgate too. But I would find stateside reviews before buying any of them.

Many youtube and online reviews exist on clones. Some you can't tell without taking the knife completely apart. Certainly there are poor quality clones. Some of the Kershaws, for example, that you'll see on dhgate are less than ten dollars. Your not going to get a good knife for 10 dollars. But in the $20+ range thay make excellent knives.

Many are also sold on amazon. But without the branding. This Steve Reeves knock that I got is very nice. And I paid $17 for it on Amazon. Its nicer than my $60 Spyderco by far. I don't know if you can see the rounded and polished edges. But it is a very nice knife. With a very smooth action. And retains an excellent edge. This knifes original retails for over $600 iirc.

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I know many don't agree with clones. And I respect that. But imho alot of products in our society get priced beyond the average man. Simply because of a name brand. I was shocked when I got my original Spyderco. It was very crude. Had very sharp edges. Like they had not wasted the extra dollar finishing the knife. And just took the profit out of the customers quality. But I would not disagree with anyone not wanting to buy clones out of principle.

I own many name brand items. And appreciate what I have gotten. But there are a couple categories where I have learned not alot separates the $50 version and the $5000 one. As far as the average persons use and oerception is concerned. In the end its for simply cutting things.

Most of the time I buy the $50 one and am perfectly happy. Other times I may like the $5000 design better. Like in watches. If your willing to pay $100-$300. You can find very good quality clones of an original $5000 watch.

Same goes for knives. But knives are far simpler items. Their main duty is to simply cut things. I really do not care if I do that with D2 or some exotic steel. And I'm not a knife or watch snob. I really don't care about the branding. But i do care about the design, size etc.

I personally believe some knife manufacturers are so overpriced the common man would never be able to afford one. But in the clone market they can. Do I need a $100+ folding knife? No. Absolutely not. But I'm glad I can get a very high quality clone for $30. Its way nicer than the $50-$100 original I can get stateside.

But again, you can't expect a good clone for cheap either. You need to at least spend $25-$30.

I'm also not one of those people that is so impressed with prestige that I walk around trying to pass off knock off goods as original. I don't own a clone Rolex. Even though you can get excellent quality Swiss models that no average watch owner would know the difference. I do own an $80 clone of an $8000 watch. But 99% of people would not recognize the brand. Nor do I care. I just like the size and design of the watch on my big assed arm. Lol.

It makes me laugh sometimes. As there are reviews on youtube of Medford knife owners. Taking clones apart looking for the tiniest detail that separates their original from a clone. Groups that spend years online getting to know each other. Simply over the fact that they both own the same item.

Thats sad to me. Its like guys that buy a restored old car. And spend countless weekends driving to car shows. To pick up a trophy for something they didn't even build. I have a friend like that. Or a friend of my wife. I feel sorry for the guy. That his self esteem is so low that he's emotionally attched to something so outside of himself.

Anyway. Thats my long answer to why I don't care about brands. Especially in knives. When really you can make a perfectly exceptable one in your garage. Its really not like a watch.

I will say the next two knives I'm buying are originals from stateside. Meaning I'm buying from a stateside knife company. But ultimately they are all made in China.

But I would not hesitate to give a chinese clone a try. But the same models in clones do not exist as far as I know.

But do your research before you buy anything off dhgate. And be ready to gamble $25 on a knife that would have cost you $600. For some thats worth it. For others not. But I can replace alot of $25 pocket knifea for $600. Especially if they are the quality of my $17 one.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

I honestly don't mind clones as long as they're not marketed as being the real thing.

I've seen a bunch of Sanrenmu and Ganzo knives that are pretty much 1 to 1 clones of Kershaw, Buck, Ontario knives and other brands.

Sanrenmu and Ganzo don't market them as being real Ontarios or Kershaws or others, they're just really close copies. There's maybe some minor changes, usually handle materials and maybe blade steel, but other than that, they're pretty much clones of the real deal.

I think Joerg Sprave did a couple videos where he tested a mixed bag of Ganzo knives and some of them failed, but others passed with either minimal damage or none at all. And Joerg beat the absolute hell out of them.

[Moab]

I honestly don't mind clones as long as they're not marketed as being the real thing.

I've seen a bunch of Sanrenmu and Ganzo knives that are pretty much 1 to 1 clones of Kershaw, Buck, Ontario knives and other brands.

Sanrenmu and Ganzo don't market them as being real Ontarios or Kershaws or others, they're just really close copies. There's maybe some minor changes, usually handle materials and maybe blade steel, but other than that, they're pretty much clones of the real deal.

I think Joerg Sprave did a couple videos where he tested a mixed bag of Ganzo knives and some of them failed, but others passed with either minimal damage or none at all. And Joerg beat the absolute hell out of them.

The Land knife I posted pics of above. Is part of that group of clones. 

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

I honestly don't mind clones as long as they're not marketed as being the real thing.

I've seen a bunch of Sanrenmu and Ganzo knives that are pretty much 1 to 1 clones of Kershaw, Buck, Ontario knives and other brands.

Sanrenmu and Ganzo don't market them as being real Ontarios or Kershaws or others, they're just really close copies. There's maybe some minor changes, usually handle materials and maybe blade steel, but other than that, they're pretty much clones of the real deal.

I think Joerg Sprave did a couple videos where he tested a mixed bag of Ganzo knives and some of them failed, but others passed with either minimal damage or none at all. And Joerg beat the absolute hell out of them.

The Land knife I posted pics of above. Is part of that group of clones.

Neat. I wonder if that was one of those models that didn't fail.

[Moab]

I honestly don't mind clones as long as they're not marketed as being the real thing.

I've seen a bunch of Sanrenmu and Ganzo knives that are pretty much 1 to 1 clones of Kershaw, Buck, Ontario knives and other brands.

Sanrenmu and Ganzo don't market them as being real Ontarios or Kershaws or others, they're just really close copies. There's maybe some minor changes, usually handle materials and maybe blade steel, but other than that, they're pretty much clones of the real deal.

I think Joerg Sprave did a couple videos where he tested a mixed bag of Ganzo knives and some of them failed, but others passed with either minimal damage or none at all. And Joerg beat the absolute hell out of them.

The Land knife I posted pics of above. Is part of that group of clones.

Neat. I wonder if that was one of those models that didn't fail.

I've read nothing but great reviews on them. And personally it was worth the $17 risk. Lol. Not to mention it was amazon. So i could return at any time. 

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

It's been awhile since I last ordered anything from Amazon.

I should probably go back over there and see if my wishlist needs any organizing. There's probably a lot of stuff on there that Amazon doesn't sell anymore.

[MacWa77ace]

Not sure if your going to the same site. But its dhgate not hdgate. I couldnt get your link to work, Mac.

Here's their list of folding knifes. But you can narrow it down to assisted etc etc. And you have to select which model and options before it will show a price for purchasing one.

https://www.dhgate.com/wholesale/folding-knife/s.html

https://www.dhgate.com/wholesale/search.do?act=search&dspm=pcen.dcp-111.searclick.1.T0VJgBtLf6NWXT8D8A3K%26resource_id%3D&sus=&searchkey=folding+knives&catalog=#pusearch1812

I think i typo'd that; but the other link got an error and a text based webpage, but then clicking on a catogory got me to the dhgate site which is where i pulled those images from.

I Don't mind clones, just counterfeits. NT's was a counterfeit if it was sold as a New Benchmade with a Benchmade logo but wasn't a benchmade. At least that's how I look at it.

But the other thing is the customer service and warranty support. I guess there's an argument for buying a $17 knife and just replacing it if something goes wrong. [as long as you can still get it] But if you pay $100 for the same thing and they'll replace it if it breaks for the lifetime of that knife, that's something else.

OFFTOPIC: I have clone weapon lights. I don't know what their clones of but I actually built them from the housing and bezel to the switch and LED bulbs. Which all the parts were high quality and the bulbs were exactly the same as what is used in surefire. BUT, SolarForce is out of business or I don't know what/who the replacment is for them so I can't get any more, any more parts, or if they break I'm out of luck. Surefire is still in business. I want to see if I can put a Brand name tape switch on them but am reluctant due to the price of that switch, which would be 3-4 times what I paid for the light. But in the off chance it didn't work I could just buy a brand name light to go with the switch, BUUUT the technology has changed and so a switch that would go on these SolarForce lights would not be one that would go on a current tech light and I wouldn't want to buy an old model light to go with the switch.

[/offtopic]

[Moab]

Not sure if your going to the same site. But its dhgate not hdgate. I couldnt get your link to work, Mac.

Here's their list of folding knifes. But you can narrow it down to assisted etc etc. And you have to select which model and options before it will show a price for purchasing one.

https://www.dhgate.com/wholesale/folding-knife/s.html

https://www.dhgate.com/wholesale/search.do?act=search&dspm=pcen.dcp-111.searclick.1.T0VJgBtLf6NWXT8D8A3K%26resource_id%3D&sus=&searchkey=folding+knives&catalog=#pusearch1812

I think i typo'd that; but the other link got an error and a text based webpage, but then clicking on a catogory got me to the dhgate site which is where i pulled those images from.

I Don't mind clones, just counterfeits. NT's was a counterfeit if it was sold as a New Benchmade with a Benchmade logo but wasn't a benchmade. At least that's how I look at it.

But the other thing is the customer service and warranty support. I guess there's an argument for buying a $17 knife and just replacing it if something goes wrong. [as long as you can still get it] But if you pay $100 for the same thing and they'll replace it if it breaks for the lifetime of that knife, that's something else.

OFFTOPIC: I have clone weapon lights. I don't know what their clones of but I actually built them from the housing and bezel to the switch and LED bulbs. Which all the parts were high quality and the bulbs were exactly the same as what is used in surefire. BUT, SolarForce is out of business or I don't know what/who the replacment is for them so I can't get any more, any more parts, or if they break I'm out of luck. Surefire is still in business. I want to see if I can put a Brand name tape switch on them but am reluctant due to the price of that switch, which would be 3-4 times what I paid for the light. But in the off chance it didn't work I could just buy a brand name light to go with the switch, BUUUT the technology has changed and so a switch that would go on these SolarForce lights would not be one that would go on a current tech light and I wouldn't want to buy an old model light to go with the switch.

[/offtopic]

Link probably didn't work because i have the app. My apologies. 

[Moab]

I will say I would not purchase a clone for my bob or inch. I have an esee 4 and esee 5. I would not trust either to a clone. 

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

I will say I would not purchase a clone for my bob or inch. I have an esee 4 and esee 5. I would not trust either to a clone.

I might, but only after putting one through its paces and making sure it'll survive whatever I throw at it.

[NT2C]

I will say I would not purchase a clone for my bob or inch. I have an esee 4 and esee 5. I would not trust either to a clone.

Personally, I wouldn't put anything not "tried and tested" in either.  I want gear in there that's had the new knocked off and proven it can handle the job.

[Lodewijk]

Modified a Ka-Bar. Need to play with it but I like these knives and this one is no exception. Frickin' ricasso WILL NOT take patina but guessing that means it probably won't rust easily either.

Side note but trying PostImage... what are you guys using to upload photos in 2020+2? Imgur is a PITA to use from my phone and I got spoiled by BCUSA's direct upload stuff.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

I just post directly here via the attachments tab.

What're you using to make the patina your Ka-Bar ? I tried forcing a patina on a kukri I have using mustard, but that didn't work out too well.

Ended up sanding off the patina and just leaving it bare. Got it oiled so it won't rust, but I'm thinking of getting some of that cold blue stuff from Birchwood-Casey to darken the blade a bit.