Multiple power substations taken out in NC by gunfire.

[EBuff75]

I've only run an actual sporting clays course once, and it had some of those big transmission lines running right through the middle of the course.  You were actually firing toward the lines at many of the stations.  I guess they figured that #7.5 / #8 would run out of juice before it got there, so there wasn't any actual danger to the power lines.  Of course, if someone screwed up what load they were running...

And speaking of a lack of security around power facilities.

A few years back, a friend and I were driving up to northern Michigan and we decided to stop at some of the big wind turbines that had been installed in the mid-Michigan area (along US-127).  No security whatsoever, not even gates or fences.  We drove right up to one of them and got out to walk around.  Man, those things are huge!  We took a few pictures and then got back in the car and continued on our drive, but I always thought it was strange that anyone could just go right up to them like that.

[Optimist]

You can drive up to the Alaska pipeline in many places. It's been shot a bunch of times but apparently the thick metal holds up pretty well. A drunk did manage to punch a hole in with a .338 about twenty years ago.

[RickOShea]

I've only run an actual sporting clays course once, and it had some of those big transmission lines running right through the middle of the course.  You were actually firing toward the lines at many of the stations.  I guess they figured that #7.5 / #8 would run out of juice before it got there, so there wasn't any actual danger to the power lines.  Of course, if someone screwed up what load they were running...

I've spliced a few "shotgun induced" broken wires in my day. But I'm talking about 7.2 kV to 14.4 kV distribution lines on 40 to 50 foot tall poles.....not the "big wire" on transmission lines.

Most of our overhead lines are ACSR (Aluminum Conductor, Steel Reinforced), so when Bubba & Tater are dove hunting and they shoot one off the powerline, the central steel strand tends to survive while a bunch of the outer aluminum strands break.

[Asparagus]

I guess it's just too difficult to secure that much infrastraucture in any significant way. It's not like a fence will slow down a terrorist for very long... Wildlife and livestock having access probably helps in keeping vegetation down too, saving even more money.

I've just bought a small farm with a 66kv and a 24kv line running over it, could be interesting to look around a little. There is a small substation a few hundred meters away, and a small powerplant a couple of kilometers up the line. Luckily we have a different gun culture over here, so random things getting shot at (intentionally or not) is pretty rare.

[NT2C]

IMHO, the best way to secure such widespread critical infrastructure is through what I'll call the Five R's:

• Redundancy - Elimination of single points of critical failure
• Resiliency - Additional capacity that can be drawn upon beyond peak loads
• Reinforcement - Moderate hardening of infrastructure against common modes of failure
• Rapid Response - Swift and appropriate response, be it a rapid law enforcement reaction to an attack, or coordinated military and/or FEMA action to restore local services temporarily while utility company teams work to repair damage.

[MacWa77ace]

@RickOShea

Someone told me once that there is so much power bleed off near transformers/etc that you could 'pickup' free power from them. Is that true or just a myth?

I can't remember the procedure but it didn't involve a direct connection, of course.

[RickOShea]

I guess you could wait until it got dark and then put an old incandescent light bulb right next to one of those pad mounted transformers, and see if the filament tries to glow. 

One problem most power companies do have is "stray voltage", or Neutral-to-Earth voltage. In some areas you can find 2 to 4 volts just about everywhere you test. Most people and animals don't notice the stray voltage until it gets up to around 8 to 10 volts.

In my area the most common stray voltage complaint we get is from small children feeling it when they get in or out of a below ground pool, and from dairy farms when the milk cows feel it when walking across the concrete floor of a dairy barn.....which can affect their milk production.

[MacWa77ace]

Myth confirmed.

[Raptor]

I guess you could wait until it got dark and then put an old incandescent light bulb right next to one of those pad mounted transformers, and see if the filament tries to glow. 

I have done this with a fluorescent light tube under a big transmission line from a power generating station. But this not stray voltage per say but rather EMF.  


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXhZvyGtMrk

[wolf_from_wv]

Now in Washington state?

https://www.king5.com/article/news/crime/power-grid-stations-washington-victim-recent-attacks/281-e230b98f-4041-4cfc-845a-da4cade0b1a8 

[Anianna]

Now in Washington state?

https://www.king5.com/article/news/crime/power-grid-stations-washington-victim-recent-attacks/281-e230b98f-4041-4cfc-845a-da4cade0b1a8

Well, damn.  I follow some of the fringe stuff and I feel like there has been an uptick in calls for force with the specification that "force doesn't have to mean blood".  Without further evidence, I can't say with any certainty that this is related, but I won't be surprised if we find out it's related. 

Mostly unrelated, there has been a woman in Canada who insists that she is the one true ruler of Canada and calls herself the Queen of Canada.  A while back, she declared some guy in Arizona who claims to be all powerful the King of America.  He plans to install a world monarchy across the globe, controlled by him, of course, and these "monarchies" are being established via Telegram groups generally titled "The Kingdom of [country name]".  He and the "Queen of Canada" are now quibbling.  Perhaps surprisingly, this is the least weird thing going on in the fringe stuff I keep a bit of an eye on.

[Mr. E. Monkey]

He and the "Queen of Canada" are now quibbling.

I guess I need to add "War with Canada" to my 2023 bingo card then.  I would be proud to defend the kingdom against the barbarous politeness and poutine-eating ways of the northmen.  

[RickOShea]

I guess I need to add "War with Canada" to my 2023 bingo card then.  I would be proud to defend the kingdom against the barbarous politeness and poutine-eating ways of the northmen. 

LOL...

[Mr. E. Monkey]

We won already?  I didn't even get to change into my killin' pants! 

[majorhavoc]

I always said Canadians are to Americans as New Zealanders are to Australians. A less brash,  all around nicer version of their louder, more obnoxious neighbors. 

At least Canada has their cities. No one does cities better than Canada.

[Moab]

I'm surprised this isn't happening more in eastern WA. There are alot of secret militia guys in eastern WA and Idaho. I grew up in WA. And have met more than a few. Very racist. Very disturbed people. That really believe the world is ending. And are preparing for that in a very aggressive way. I would not want to settle in that area prior to a PAW or similar event. You'd be forced into a very far right, uber religious, conservative, controlled society. Pretty quickly. And/or drafted into a quasi military force to do the budding of whoever took control. I've met some scary oeople in eastern WA. 

[flybynight]

I'm surprised this isn't happening more in eastern WA. There are alot of secret militia guys in eastern WA and Idaho. I grew up in WA. And have met more than a few. Very racist. Very disturbed people. That really believe the world is ending. And are preparing for that in a very aggressive way. I would not want to settle in that area prior to a PAW or similar event. You'd be forced into a very far right, uber religious, conservative, controlled society. Pretty quickly. And/or drafted into a quasi military force to do the budding of whoever took control. I've met some scary oeople in eastern WA.

There's nuts everywhere

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/man-arrested-for-burning-dozens-of-american-flags-in-long-beach/

[Halfapint]

I'm surprised this isn't

I'm surprised this isn't happening more in eastern WA. There are alot of secret militia guys in eastern WA and Idaho. I grew up in WA. And have met more than a few. Very racist. Very disturbed people. That really believe the world is ending. And are preparing for that in a very aggressive way. I would not want to settle in that area prior to a PAW or similar event. You'd be forced into a very far right, uber religious, conservative, controlled society. Pretty quickly. And/or drafted into a quasi military force to do the budding of whoever took control. I've met some scary oeople in eastern WA.

We have our crazies here in Western WA. An all ages Taproom that hosts a story time was shot up in Renton. So I'm expecting something like the NC thing to happen here in W WA. There's going to be a counter protest because the people trying to shut down the story time said they'd be armed and show up today (10Dec).

We'll see what happens. The police did put one of those blue light things with cameras in the parking lot, but didn't say they would be there because reasons.

[Moab]

I think people under estimate the widespread attitudes in eastern WA though. 3/4 of the state have been pushed out of the political discussion because of the liberal population density in the cities of western WA. Some of which I don't disagree with. Like gun control. Eastern WA and rural areas of western WA are very different from the Seattle/Tacoma area where all the pop density is. I have lived ling oeriods of time in both. 

But there has been a movement in Eastern WA to secede from the rest of the state. If it was allowed to go forward I think eastern WA and northern Idaho would secede in an instant. Hell all of Idaho. And probably large parts of Oregon.

But eastern WA and Northern Idaho have been deeply racist and far right wing forever. I don't know if everyone recalls but the Aryan Nation was headquartered in northern Idaho. Decades ago. There are now 6 large white supremist groups in ID. 

Not so funny story. But when I was an actor in Seattle. I was hired to appear at a national jewish youth camp (hired by the jewish youth camp that is.) to appear as a member of the Aryan nation from Idaho. As it was the one org of that type, well known at that time. 

Ostensibly to help educate the jewish youth about white supremecy. Because it was at the time kind of a low point in white supremecy. Meaning you didnt hear alot about it on the news or in the papers. And they couldnt get a real white supremist to appear.  

But basically it was to scare them. I gave a speech, had a very volatile q&a and then they revealed that I was just an actor. The teenagers were traumatized to be honest.  It was creepy to say the least. I'm still not sure how I feel about it. But I desparately needed the $500. And most of the actors in my theater company in seattle saw it as a challenge. As I did. It was not an easy thing to pull off. 

Everyone always knew Idaho was a hotbed of extremism. I grew up in central WA. Still considered eastern WA. And it was racist as hell. I dated the only black girl in town for awhile. We lived together. Our fathers worked together. And the racism was shocking. 

But spending some time in the far eastern or south eastern sections close to Idaho is really shocking. Were talking white people that still use the nword in everyday conversation. And basically align with most of hitlers philosophies. I was actually scared visiting there about 10 years ago. I was raised in a native and white household. But I mostly look white. And I'm bald and have had a large goatee for most of my life. I'm also a big dude. 6'3" 250+. So people assume alot about me. And think its ok to just talk openly. For some reason. And in those environments I just let people run their mouths and show their true colors. Anyway I was shocked. 

I think one thing that contributed to this historically. At least I know it did in the mountainous areas of WA. Is once logging ran out in the south. Alot of southern families moved from there to the PNW for jobs in the logging industry. Alot of people in my hometown in the mountains of western WA were from North Carolina. Most were wonderful people. But many still had very racist attitudes. My native grandmother, aunt and father all lived in this town. And experienced racism for decades. 

Its a very strange time right now. Least of which is the privitization of utilities. That went from community related services that provided affordable power, water, sewage etc to the community.  That now charge wage slave prices for those same services. This happened here in CA. You now have to pay one third to one half of rent just for power. What used to be $80 a month is now several hundred dollars a month. The gov and corps have been squeezing people for decades. With few wage increases. The frustration is real. And with so much corp miney in politics. Its difficult to change things around.

Not advocating violence. But its not just racism that brings these things about.

[Halfapint]

I think people under estimate the widespread attitudes in eastern WA though.

Oh I get it, I'm a white guy 6' 270lb even here on the western side the casual racism in conversation is quite shocking. My wife is half Vietnamese (white facing) and she gets it as well when out and this is the "liberal side".

Lots of modern hate groups have started in Portland and Seattle one is the reason is as you said these are the more left facing areas and there's a pushback against that. I mean even in my own neighborhood some guy casually drops the nword and how he hates the politics here and comes just to the point where he says he wants to do violence. And then says he loves that because his wife just gave birth he's taking full advantage of the 12 weeks gov paid paternity leave.

There's a lot of racists (and other phobias) here in the western side.

I personally always find the break away threats humorous. The tax base in those areas can't afford the most basic of services. One small country in central eastern WA gets 32k per child for schooling. Where the Seattle school district gets less than 5k, I actually think it's about 3400$ but I'm not sure exactly. That money all comes from the western side. With a fraction from the feds.

Anywho, I have a few friends that will be at the story time today and I hope it's peaceful. And no more transformers are shot up