Roadside/Car Emergency Shelter Kit

Started by Crimson_Phoenix, September 25, 2026, 03:50:37 PM

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Crimson_Phoenix

Has anybody put together a shelter and bedding kit they primarily keep in their vehicle in case they get stranded or have an unexpected overnight stay but can't get lodging nearby? I live primarily in a hot dry environment, but want to start doing weekend trips into Arizona's rim country and the Flagstaff and Prescott areas. Short of always having my camping gear loaded up, what would make for a decent roadside emergency shelter and bedding kit?

I currently have in my ALICE ruck a BCO shelter tarp kit with cordage, Nite-Ize carabiners, and stakes, and have an extra poncho liner, poncho, moving blanket, IFAK, and roadside car kit (tools, cigarette lighter plug in tire inflater, duct tape, electrical tape, etc.). I usually travel with at minimum 2 gallons of water in the car. Anything else?

To clarify, I drive a late 2010s Nissan Rogue Sport. The seats can fold down flat with no hump, which was a selling point for me, but it's hard to conceal a lot of stuff in the back. I currently keep my car kit gear in a long dairy crate anchored to the side of the back compartment and have a moving blanket rolled up on the seat for when I do move stuff. Also keep two gallon jugs of water, an extendable hiking pole, and folding camp chair in the back as well.
Nowhere is a very big place to get lost.

Rednex

Kinda make shift but a 8X12 tarp, wool blanket, moving blanket, M65 coat, coffee can stove and metal cup, paracord, 3/4" roap, a full size shovel(can stick in the ground use the handle as a tent pole) a few of those cheap mylar reflective blankets, and a few stakes. Never used it in an emergency but have used the same thing ( less the shovel) in trial/error testing and it worked  ok enough for a night in moderate climate. That's not all i keep in the truck , that's just what i keep that can be used as a shelter/bedding.

Moab

I would carry a cheap military sleeping bag (heavy = cheap = disposable if stolen + you're not carrying it). And ditch the liner and moving blanket. Maybe keep just the poncho and liner if late spring, summer or very early fall.

Can you sleep in your vehicle? You mention "roadside" so I'm assuming no?

How big is the tarp? I would prefer a cheap heavy tent if snow. For same reasons above re; heavy sleeping bag.

Vehicle only is where cheap surplus wins out. Your mechanized basically, not carrying any distance, it's cheap, rugged, and doesn't matter if it gets stolen out of your car.

Bonus advice. I always keep a cheap black fleece blanket in my vehicles. Thrown over anything it hides it in most vehicles with even mild tint at night. Prime time for theft. I haven't owned a vehicle with a trunk in years though. I keep an improved duffle bag with vehicle gear in the back of my Jeep. Covered with the black fleece blanket. Stock tinting it's almost invisible even with a flashlight at night. The dull black fleece reads carpet or upholstery. Trash bags are black but shiny.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

NT2C

I keep a pair of heavy shelter type tarps (orange one side, reflective the other) plus a few different blankets (double as rear seat covers and cargo area covers), as well as a cushion/pillow, paracord, and a pair of telescopic tent poles.  With them, and some cable ties I can tarp an area next to the Jeep for shelter/shade, have a ground cloth, and serviceable sleeping area outside the vehicle, though sleeping in the front passenger seat is always an option as it lies flat.  I also keep basic food and beverage needs (bottled water, 12v kettle, gas camping stove, coffee beans, grinder, French press, sweetener & creamer, Spam singles, a couple of MREs, freeze dried ramen style meals), extra clothing/hats/packable jackets, boots, and a spare cane.  It's enough to see me through a few days in the back country in relative comfort, and a week or two in a survival scenario.
Nonsolis Radios Sediouis Fulmina Mitto. - USN Gunner's Mate motto

Current Weather in My AO
Current Tracking Info for My Jeep

majorhavoc

My primary emergency bag is a get home bag (GHB) that lives in my car. It's basically a 3-day BOB, but the primary use case is to get home in the event of an emergency that precludes driving. It contains (among many other things) a 1 person bivy tent, sleeping pad and a season-appropriate sleeping bag that gets swapped out each fall and spring.  I also have a pair of hiking boots, wool socks and one of those AAA fleece car blankets in the car at all times.

But it also serves as prep for the two other use cases you mention - the stranded vehicle and unexpected overnight scenarios. The kit includes a small toiletry kit and a couple changes of underwear, socks and t-shirt.

Also, in the winter time, I supplement these car supplies with a wool blanket, down inner jacket, goretex shell jacket and rain pants and hat & gloves.

So far the only times any of that has been put to real world use were the occasional impromptu day hike and once when my car wouldn't start at the end of a work day and I had to crash on a friend's couch.
A post-apocalyptic tale of love, loss and redemption. And zombies!
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echo83

My GHB kind of is my vehicle kit. In addition to the below, I always have a 12'x8' tarp and at least one fleece blanket in the back

FOOD:
Mountain House chili mac X1
Mountain House Breakfast Skillet X1
Mountain House Spaghetti X1
Cliff bars X3
SOS Bars 
Hot cocoa X4
Polish Mess kit X1

WATER:
Canteen/cup 32 oz
Nalgene 96 oz
Liquid IV X4

SHELTER:
SOL Bivvy X2
Poncho liner
Fleece X1
Knit hat X1
Mechanix gloves X1

FIRE (in dry bag)
Esbit stove/screen
Esbit tabs X6
Sterno X2
Waterproof matches X4
Bic lighter X1
Ferro bar X1

FIRST AID:
AMK Ultralight kit.9 X1
Israeli Bandage 4in X1
Israeli Bandage 6in X1

TOOLS:
Morakniv Companion X1
Gerber Diesel X1
Gorilla tape X1
USGI Compass X1
Headlamp X1
AA Batteries X6
Paracord 100' X1
Sillcock Key X1
Prybar X1

Of all this gear, the SOL Bivvy Bags are the 1 untested item. Everything I've read about them says they're waterproof and do a great job of retaining heat, but I also have a feeling that they're a crackly, last-ditch, single use item that is a huge leap over a space blanket, but not really rated for sleeping in a snowdrift. 

I'm pretty much counting on being able to sleep overnight in my car for a couple of nights, or outside of it for one miserable night. A decent sleeping bag paired with the Bivvy Bag may extend this, but not by much. 

Moab

Quote from: echo83 on October 09, 2026, 05:28:55 PMMy GHB kind of is my vehicle kit. In addition to the below, I always have a 12'x8' tarp and at least one fleece blanket in the back

FOOD:
Mountain House chili mac X1
Mountain House Breakfast Skillet X1
Mountain House Spaghetti X1
Cliff bars X3
SOS Bars
Hot cocoa X4
Polish Mess kit X1

WATER:
Canteen/cup 32 oz
Nalgene 96 oz
Liquid IV X4

SHELTER:
SOL Bivvy X2
Poncho liner
Fleece X1
Knit hat X1
Mechanix gloves X1

FIRE (in dry bag)
Esbit stove/screen
Esbit tabs X6
Sterno X2
Waterproof matches X4
Bic lighter X1
Ferro bar X1

FIRST AID:
AMK Ultralight kit.9 X1
Israeli Bandage 4in X1
Israeli Bandage 6in X1

TOOLS:
Morakniv Companion X1
Gerber Diesel X1
Gorilla tape X1
USGI Compass X1
Headlamp X1
AA Batteries X6
Paracord 100' X1
Sillcock Key X1
Prybar X1

Of all this gear, the SOL Bivvy Bags are the 1 untested item. Everything I've read about them says they're waterproof and do a great job of retaining heat, but I also have a feeling that they're a crackly, last-ditch, single use item that is a huge leap over a space blanket, but not really rated for sleeping in a snowdrift.

I'm pretty much counting on being able to sleep overnight in my car for a couple of nights, or outside of it for one miserable night. A decent sleeping bag paired with the Bivvy Bag may extend this, but not by much.
The SOL Bivvy Bags make alot more sense than the emergency blankets. The amount of heat retention with a bicynhas to be massively more than with the blanket. And they are surprisingly cheap. The knocks from China are close. Not SOL. But close. And a far cry better than any emergency foil blanket. 

If I'm thinking of the heavy duty thicker bigger SOL type. The type I carry in my survival fannypack and cheatpack.  Are not nearly as big. But bigger than a space blanket type that folds so flat and small. It's maybe the size of half a softball. A nice compromise between the SOL and the space blanket. And a far cry from the space blanket. I don't even buy space blankets anymore. 
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

Moab

Quote from: NT2C on October 09, 2026, 07:39:08 AMI keep a pair of heavy shelter type tarps (orange one side, reflective the other) plus a few different blankets (double as rear seat covers and cargo area covers), as well as a cushion/pillow, paracord, and a pair of telescopic tent poles.  With them, and some cable ties I can tarp an area next to the Jeep for shelter/shade, have a ground cloth, and serviceable sleeping area outside the vehicle, though sleeping in the front passenger seat is always an option as it lies flat.  I also keep basic food and beverage needs (bottled water, 12v kettle, gas camping stove, coffee beans, grinder, French press, sweetener & creamer, Spam singles, a couple of MREs, freeze dried ramen style meals), extra clothing/hats/packable jackets, boots, and a spare cane.  It's enough to see me through a few days in the back country in relative comfort, and a week or two in a survival scenario.
French press for the win. What people don't realize is you can make any type of coffee with a French press. If you like espresso or watery electric coffee maker coffee. You can make both or anything in-between. 

A french press is essential kit in my book.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

echo83

Quote from: Moab on October 10, 2026, 12:48:23 AMI'm pretty much counting on being able to sleep overnight in my car for a couple of nights, or outside of it for one miserable night. A decent sleeping bag paired with the Bivvy Bag may extend this, but not by much.

The SOL Bivvy Bags make alot more sense than the emergency blankets. The amount of heat retention with a bicynhas to be massively more than with the blanket. And they are surprisingly cheap. The knocks from China are close. Not SOL. But close. And a far cry better than any emergency foil blanket.

If I'm thinking of the heavy duty thicker bigger SOL type. The type I carry in my survival fannypack and cheatpack.  Are not nearly as big. But bigger than a space blanket type that folds so flat and small. It's maybe the size of half a softball. A nice compromise between the SOL and the space blanket. And a far cry from the space blanket. I don't even buy space blankets anymore.
Yeah, those are the ones I have. I've seen a few reviews where people repack them/reuse them, but it looks like they eventually delaminate, and they definitely are prone to punctures. Nobody seems to know whether to sleep in them fully clothed (and get less heat efficiency) or in their skivvies (and risk getting soaked in sweat)

The way I envision them is wrapping in a poncho liner or blanket, then zipping into a bivvy and spending the night in a car because of a blizzard. I definitely don't want to go out on foot and get smeared by a snowplow, but by sheltering in place I can keep from freezing to death until the snow stops. 

I've always regarded foil blankets as "Good job finishing that marathon." or "I hear the ambulance sirens, put this on until they get here," kind of use. 


echo83

Quote from: NT2C on October 09, 2026, 07:39:08 AMI keep a pair of heavy shelter type tarps (orange one side, reflective the other) plus a few different blankets (double as rear seat covers and cargo area covers), as well as a cushion/pillow, paracord, and a pair of telescopic tent poles.  With them, and some cable ties I can tarp an area next to the Jeep for shelter/shade, have a ground cloth, and serviceable sleeping area outside the vehicle, though sleeping in the front passenger seat is always an option as it lies flat.  I also keep basic food and beverage needs (bottled water, 12v kettle, gas camping stove, coffee beans, grinder, French press, sweetener & creamer, Spam singles, a couple of MREs, freeze dried ramen style meals), extra clothing/hats/packable jackets, boots, and a spare cane.  It's enough to see me through a few days in the back country in relative comfort, and a week or two in a survival scenario.

All of this sounds pretty solid. Your coffee setup is far more refined than mine. I've been known to eat a spoonful of Taster's Choice instant, then drink water while driving. It horrifies my wife every time, so I do it for shock value as much as to maintain alertness.

Do the temperature fluctuations in your area reduce the shelf life/taste of your MREs? I've never stored them in my car. 

Moab

Quote from: echo83 on October 10, 2026, 08:52:47 AM
Quote from: NT2C on October 09, 2026, 07:39:08 AMI keep a pair of heavy shelter type tarps (orange one side, reflective the other) plus a few different blankets (double as rear seat covers and cargo area covers), as well as a cushion/pillow, paracord, and a pair of telescopic tent poles.  With them, and some cable ties I can tarp an area next to the Jeep for shelter/shade, have a ground cloth, and serviceable sleeping area outside the vehicle, though sleeping in the front passenger seat is always an option as it lies flat.  I also keep basic food and beverage needs (bottled water, 12v kettle, gas camping stove, coffee beans, grinder, French press, sweetener & creamer, Spam singles, a couple of MREs, freeze dried ramen style meals), extra clothing/hats/packable jackets, boots, and a spare cane.  It's enough to see me through a few days in the back country in relative comfort, and a week or two in a survival scenario.

All of this sounds pretty solid. Your coffee setup is far more refined than mine. I've been known to eat a spoonful of Taster's Choice instant, then drink water while driving. It horrifies my wife every time, so I do it for shock value as much as to maintain alertness.

Do the temperature fluctuations in your area reduce the shelf life/taste of your MREs? I've never stored them in my car.
I'm not above drinking Nescafe instant. But the caffeine is like $3 crack at a gas station! Makes me jittery as hell. I do drink a lot of decaf at night as a fake sweet treat with my fake sugar. Plus decaf beans are hard to come buy in the Phillipines. You can't even get a decaf coffee except at Starbucks. No one serves decaf. I think they think it's a rip off. Lol. But you also can't get normal drip coffee anywhere. Or Splenda or Equal.

Instant is mandatory in a BOB. I would not take a french press in a BOB. I can be bougy. But not that bougy. Lol. Plus ground coffee doesn't compare to fresh ground. And I'm certainly not bringing a grinder.

But for a hunting trip of weekend trip. French press all the way.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

majorhavoc

Quote from: Moab on October 10, 2026, 11:19:00 AM
Quote from: echo83 on October 10, 2026, 08:52:47 AM
Quote from: NT2C on October 09, 2026, 07:39:08 AMI keep a pair of heavy shelter type tarps (orange one side, reflective the other) plus a few different blankets (double as rear seat covers and cargo area covers), as well as a cushion/pillow, paracord, and a pair of telescopic tent poles.  With them, and some cable ties I can tarp an area next to the Jeep for shelter/shade, have a ground cloth, and serviceable sleeping area outside the vehicle, though sleeping in the front passenger seat is always an option as it lies flat.  I also keep basic food and beverage needs (bottled water, 12v kettle, gas camping stove, coffee beans, grinder, French press, sweetener & creamer, Spam singles, a couple of MREs, freeze dried ramen style meals), extra clothing/hats/packable jackets, boots, and a spare cane.  It's enough to see me through a few days in the back country in relative comfort, and a week or two in a survival scenario.

All of this sounds pretty solid. Your coffee setup is far more refined than mine. I've been known to eat a spoonful of Taster's Choice instant, then drink water while driving. It horrifies my wife every time, so I do it for shock value as much as to maintain alertness.

Do the temperature fluctuations in your area reduce the shelf life/taste of your MREs? I've never stored them in my car.
I'm not above drinking Nescafe instant. But the caffeine is like $3 crack at a gas station! Makes me jittery as hell. I do drink a lot of decaf at night as a fake sweet treat with my fake sugar. Plus decaf beans are hard to come buy in the Phillipines. You can't even get a decaf coffee except at Starbucks. No one serves decaf. I think they think it's a rip off. Lol. But you also can't get normal drip coffee anywhere. Or Splenda or Equal.

Instant is mandatory in a BOB. I would not take a french press in a BOB. I can be bougy. But not that bougy. Lol. Plus ground coffee doesn't compare to fresh ground. And I'm certainly not bringing a grinder.

But for a hunting trip of weekend trip. French press all the way.
Starbucks VIA is as close to a decent cup of real coffee as I've ever encountered in instant.  It comes in single serving sleeves.  And please don't complain about the price - in a prepping world where people will pay $90 for an EDC flashlight, less than a dollar per cup for passable coffee in an emergency scenario is a freaking bargain. 

Now if someone would just come up with a decent powdered creamer that doesn't taste like white paint pigment, I'd be set for the apocalypse.  :tickedoff:
A post-apocalyptic tale of love, loss and redemption. And zombies!
<br />https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=105.0

Moab

Quote from: majorhavoc on October 10, 2026, 11:51:07 AM
Quote from: Moab on October 10, 2026, 11:19:00 AM
Quote from: echo83 on October 10, 2026, 08:52:47 AM
Quote from: NT2C on October 09, 2026, 07:39:08 AMI keep a pair of heavy shelter type tarps (orange one side, reflective the other) plus a few different blankets (double as rear seat covers and cargo area covers), as well as a cushion/pillow, paracord, and a pair of telescopic tent poles.  With them, and some cable ties I can tarp an area next to the Jeep for shelter/shade, have a ground cloth, and serviceable sleeping area outside the vehicle, though sleeping in the front passenger seat is always an option as it lies flat.  I also keep basic food and beverage needs (bottled water, 12v kettle, gas camping stove, coffee beans, grinder, French press, sweetener & creamer, Spam singles, a couple of MREs, freeze dried ramen style meals), extra clothing/hats/packable jackets, boots, and a spare cane.  It's enough to see me through a few days in the back country in relative comfort, and a week or two in a survival scenario.

All of this sounds pretty solid. Your coffee setup is far more refined than mine. I've been known to eat a spoonful of Taster's Choice instant, then drink water while driving. It horrifies my wife every time, so I do it for shock value as much as to maintain alertness.

Do the temperature fluctuations in your area reduce the shelf life/taste of your MREs? I've never stored them in my car.
I'm not above drinking Nescafe instant. But the caffeine is like $3 crack at a gas station! Makes me jittery as hell. I do drink a lot of decaf at night as a fake sweet treat with my fake sugar. Plus decaf beans are hard to come buy in the Phillipines. You can't even get a decaf coffee except at Starbucks. No one serves decaf. I think they think it's a rip off. Lol. But you also can't get normal drip coffee anywhere. Or Splenda or Equal.

Instant is mandatory in a BOB. I would not take a french press in a BOB. I can be bougy. But not that bougy. Lol. Plus ground coffee doesn't compare to fresh ground. And I'm certainly not bringing a grinder.

But for a hunting trip of weekend trip. French press all the way.
Starbucks VIA is as close to a decent cup of real coffee as I've ever encountered in instant.  It comes in single serving sleeves.  And please don't complain about the price - in a prepping world where people will pay $90 for an EDC flashlight, less than a dollar per cup for passable coffee in an emergency scenario is a freaking bargain. 

Now if someone would just come up with a decent powdered creamer that doesn't taste like white paint pigment, I'd be set for the apocalypse.  :tickedoff:
I haven't met a powdered creamer I don't like. EXCEPT every single one has a massive amount of sugar hidden in it. That does not come up in the nutrition label. Because the food industry got a law passed that powdered corn syrup is not sugar. Except it actually is - obviously. Couldn't figure out why my blood sugar numbers were going haywire. 
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

majorhavoc

You can't tell me The Committee isn't monitoring every website I visit, the texts and emails I send, the posts I make on forums and even voice convesations within earshot of my phone, smart speaker or even my f*cking web-enabled car.  :smiley_devil:  This just popped up on my feed:

84-pack Folders Black Silk Instant Coffee Cystals - $9.79 54% off.

:smiley_coffee:
A post-apocalyptic tale of love, loss and redemption. And zombies!
<br />https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=105.0

Moab

Quote from: majorhavoc on October 11, 2026, 06:56:32 AMYou can't tell me The Committee isn't monitoring every website I visit, the texts and emails I send, the posts I make on forums and even voice convesations within earshot of my phone, smart speaker or even my f*cking web-enabled car.  :smiley_devil:  This just popped up on my feed:

84-pack Folders Black Silk Instant Coffee Cystals - $9.79 54% off.

:smiley_coffee:
It's a forgone conclusion. And I am convinced before that that every cable box had a mic soldered to it's board someplace. Remember how they always wanted you to name esch cable box by what room they were in?! 

The only right to privacy we have left is being told in a 98 page terms of service what's rights they are going to violate for sure!
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

DarkAxel

Nothing really to add to the conversation but this:

Illegal camping laws and ordinances are gaining a lot of traction, so you may want to read up on them. Some of the things that can be considered illegal camping aren't immediately obvious either. In my state, sleeping in your car with a pillow and blanket on public land or right-of-way can get you a ticket, and repeat offensives can get you jail time. Camping on public land in any location other than a designated camping site is illegal here, too. Due diligence is the order of the day here, and this topic may be important enough for a thread of it's own. 

NT2C

Quote from: DarkAxel on October 11, 2026, 01:47:31 PMNothing really to add to the conversation but this:

Illegal camping laws and ordinances are gaining a lot of traction, so you may want to read up on them. Some of the things that can be considered illegal camping aren't immediately obvious either. In my state, sleeping in your car with a pillow and blanket on public land or right-of-way can get you a ticket, and repeat offensives can get you jail time. Camping on public land in any location other than a designated camping site is illegal here, too. Due diligence is the order of the day here, and this topic may be important enough for a thread of it's own.
Now, if I pulled over for a rest break on "public land", such as a county courthouse parking lot, etc., and I got cited for it because I used a pillow and blanket in my car, that's a ticket I'd fight as high as I needed to.
Nonsolis Radios Sediouis Fulmina Mitto. - USN Gunner's Mate motto

Current Weather in My AO
Current Tracking Info for My Jeep

DarkAxel

Quote from: NT2C on October 11, 2026, 02:19:37 PM
Quote from: DarkAxel on October 11, 2026, 01:47:31 PMNothing really to add to the conversation but this:

Illegal camping laws and ordinances are gaining a lot of traction, so you may want to read up on them. Some of the things that can be considered illegal camping aren't immediately obvious either. In my state, sleeping in your car with a pillow and blanket on public land or right-of-way can get you a ticket, and repeat offensives can get you jail time. Camping on public land in any location other than a designated camping site is illegal here, too. Due diligence is the order of the day here, and this topic may be important enough for a thread of it's own.
Now, if I pulled over for a rest break on "public land", such as a county courthouse parking lot, etc., and I got cited for it because I used a pillow and blanket in my car, that's a ticket I'd fight as high as I needed to.
You'd probably get some local help if it happened here. There are a LOT of people angry right now. To beat it all, when I got my Driver's license renewed there was an insert in the temp license from the Kentucky State Police encouraging people to pull over and take a nap instead of driving while tired. 

echo83

Quote from: DarkAxel on October 11, 2026, 01:47:31 PMNothing really to add to the conversation but this:

Illegal camping laws and ordinances are gaining a lot of traction, so you may want to read up on them. Some of the things that can be considered illegal camping aren't immediately obvious either. In my state, sleeping in your car with a pillow and blanket on public land or right-of-way can get you a ticket, and repeat offensives can get you jail time. Camping on public land in any location other than a designated camping site is illegal here, too. Due diligence is the order of the day here, and this topic may be important enough for a thread of it's own.
I think I understand the intent behind these laws, and the reason they would gain traction. They're probably written by the same folks that put all those helpful armrests on airport benches and stud the underside of bridges with mini dragon's teeth so nobody gets too comfortable in one spot for too long. 

I would like to think there's a certain amount of LEO discretion involved during enforcement, right? 

Otherwise, what's the difference between loitering at the park and visiting the park? A picnic basket?

I would hope that an officer seeing my car stuck in a snowdrift, and me heating up a can of soup on the tailgate would check to see if I've called a tow truck before reaching for the ticket book and cuffs. On the other hand, if I'm parked in the middle of a traffic circle for a couple of weeks with a clothesline attached to my tailgate? Yeah, time to move it along, buddy.

majorhavoc

Apropos of this discussion El Cheapo Lightweight Rectangular Sleeping Bag.

Not for serious cold weather conditions, obviously. But for helping to stay warm in a stranded car in the winter, this might make sense.  It's an inexpensive addition to a winter car emergency kit.  The fact that it's rectangular means it can unzip into a comforter, so it could be shared with someone else in the car with you.
A post-apocalyptic tale of love, loss and redemption. And zombies!
<br />https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=105.0

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