I'm looking at other places. The cost of everything in the US has gotten silly expensive. 

For comparison purposes I can rent a six bedroom 5000 sqft ocean front house in the Dominican Republic with all utilities, a cook, maid and two security guards all for around $5000/ month. The average price of a new home is $540,000 in the US and the payments on that alone are close to $4000/ month alone, add in all the above and well it isn't getting done at half the price.

If I split the house with another couple my cost drops to $2500/ month, all included except for food, which is about half the US prices. Well within my resources to pay.

Talk me out of the madness. Why is this a bad thing? 

You going to move all your 'stuff' there, or sell/store/donate it before leaving?

Moving costs?

On the water in DR? Hurricanes? Guess its better to rent on the ocean for that reason. But you're probably paying a lot more in rent to cover the owners insurance.
https://www.worlddata.info/america/dominican-republic/hurricanes.php
Being on an Island after a disaster; look up Hurricane Maria
Damage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Maria#Puerto_Rico_2
Aftermath: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Maria#Puerto_Rico_3

Luckily you're a prepper.


IME prices of goods in the islands are higher for certain goods that have to be imported.
Certain goods can't or are difficult to get or have extended leads.

Sharing a single family home with another family to make it work? 

Renting vs Owning?
Rent goes up every year?
Zero equity?


Could you just live a few blocks off the water or somewhere you can buy? In my AO, for single family homes,  there's 'on the water' which is a million+, plus unaffordable insurance, plus super high taxes, plus you're in a designated flood zone mandatory evac. But 90% of those homes aren't even 'on the water' yet their cost to own and hurricane risks are the similar to right on the water. Then there's 10-15 minutes from the ocean, which is still high prices [but less than a million] and way less for taxes and insurance. Not in floodzone. Less stress overall. 

The only landslide I am likely to see on the beach will be slushy and have Amaretto and banana liqueur in it.

QuoteSharing a single family home with another family to make it work? 

Actually it would be a family that is family. 

My Brother in Law is the one behind the mad scheme. He and his wife and me and my wife would go in on it. With four extra bedrooms we can make two offices and and two guest rooms for visiting children and dignitaries. He and my wife would continue to work remote and I would retire, retire and live off my evil government/ military pensions and IRAs. We get along awesome already and often share a house during vacations, at least a couple of times a year. He lived in the DR for a few years previously and really liked it, parts of it are nice. 

I'd probably keep my house in the states as a home base. Return once or twice a year to get the passport stamped. I would probably have to get off the island a couple of times a year to avoid island fever. 

Yes, Florida is far too expensive. Those eye watering numbers are nowhere I would want to be. The place we are looking at is furnished and a short golf cart ride to the beach, higher off the ground, with a great view. Everything in Florida is pretty much expensive, flat, vulnerable and doesn't have much view. 

You're lucky, even my most favorite brothers in law I get tired of after a week or so. I need 'time away' LOL.

Quote from: Uomo Senza Nome on December 03, 2025, 11:48:05 AMEverything in Florida is pretty much expensive, flat, vulnerable and doesn't have much view.

There's still plenty of places to buy real estate that aren't that expensive in Florida. https://simplefastloans.com/blog/most-affordable-places-to-live-in-florida/

This is about right. Green is good. It's also less crowded. [population per sq mile]



The only vulnerability we have here really is hurricanes. [asteroids, aliens, and the antarctic Ice shelf tsunami maybe] And most infra structure is hardened against that scenario due to regulations resulting from Hurricane Andrew. So even if we get hit hard, businesses spring back pretty quick, including grocery and gas stations, banks and credit cards.  And we don't really get hit that often year over year by hurricanes. No raging wildfires, earthquakes, landslides, low tornado corridor, and mild winters. Storm surge flood planes are usually withing 2 miles or less of the coastline, but as stated before, you can't afford to live in a lot of those areas. BUT, some of those areas are old, and lower income. Yes, its flat in the southeast and southwest of the state, and around the coastlines in the center and up north. Makes for good sunrises and sunsets and maximum daylight hours though.

Gas, food, electricity, water, sales tax, property, income tax are probably on the lower end of the national spectrum across the state.
There are some pretty impressive hills in the central part of the state. [By a South Floridian's standards]
It's just that starting around 2003 there was the real estate 'flipping', corp ownership, and toxic mortgages that started the housing price spiking around the country.
Then the influx of refugees from certain states fleeing the upper end of the above list, and creating shortages and competition for real estate in areas that are more desirable to live in. Which is now making them less desirable or unobtainable to the average household. It's getting crowded here in my AO.   

There's still reasonable places to live. If you buy now, 30 years from now you'll have X¹² your investment and the infrastructure will have caught up to you.

I have to admit, I'm a bit nervous about the idea of living anywhere that I have to factor in the cost of a couple of security guards for my residence.  Especially when the cost is that low . . . if they can be bought that cheaply, they can be bought that cheaply by someone else.  I've lost friends who trusted their "affordable" private security, and got a few offers myself when I was broke enough to work "executive protection".  

I just did this. I moved from CA to the Phillipines. I've been here 6 months. And so far planning to stay. For very similar reasons to your own. And many similar considerations stateside. I to considered FL and MT and WA. 

Hold my beer? I'm going to respond to this shortly. 🤪

You cannot view this attachment.

So here's my story. 

I'm 61. Sold a business last year. Voluntarily gave the bulk of the proceeds to my ex wife and son. Uncontested divorce. We are still friends. My is 25. College graduate. A writer and entrepreneur. 

I thought about and planned what I wanted to do for a very long time. I had many years to do this. 

Reasons for leaving:

Financial but also emotional and psychogical. I had planned a homestead in WA (where I'm from and my extended family lives). I had lived in Los Angeles for 30 years. Originally moved there to continue my 10 year career acting in theater, film and TV. Then pivoted to opening a Private Investigation firm. Was successful for many years. Also owned a gun parts company. 

Realized a long time ago I was not happy in my marriage or life. But responsibilities happen. I lived up to them. But wish now I had made a change a long time ago. 

About 10 years ago I pivoted from a homestead in WA to one in MT. WA had gotten ridiculously expensive and politically radicalized so far left I could no longer see myself there. I'm not republican or democrat. My father is American Indian and my mother is white. I grew up in a multicultural family. But for all intents and purposes I appear as a big tall white guy. Not hard left or hard right. But many things happened in this country that I struggled with. Increasing censorship and loss of freedom of speech and a free press. Loss of 2A rights. Crazy sexual orientation campaigns in the far end of both spectrums. That I felt was hurting the gay community more than helping. I support gay rights. (Again not a radical lefty or righty. But definitely pro democracy.) There was also a general hatred of white men that has been building since the 80s. The circles I frequented (the arts, acting, tv, film etc) had been promoting that for a long time. I had to fall in line in order to maintain my career. Anything outside of the cult like, far left, liberal ideals was an automatic black balling. 

This is my single experience. Don't misunderstand this for a political view point. I decide issues singularly. Based on merits. Not a particular ideology. And not the main motivating factor in my move. It had little to do with the problems in the US. Except financially. Financially it had become untenable. 

MT was a distinct possibility. Cheap land for the US. 20 acres around 200k. But housing still unrealistic. During the pandemic things doubled or tripled. To create a 10 to 20 acre off grid homestead was 500k at least. Which was an uncomfortably large amount of my nest egg. And beyond that all I have is social security that doesn't start until 2027. And I get free healthcare, dental and vision but only on the Indian reservation. I also have VA benefits. But only here in Manilla. Quite far from the island I now live on. But it's there if I need it. 

Then I took a good hard look at what I would be missing emotionally and psychologically if I left the US. I have a good relationship with my mother, 2 sisters and brother. But they live in various parts of WA. We have talked on video anywhere from once every other month. To a couple times a week depending. For the past 30 years. Personally and group family chat. I lived two states away in CA. But felt very comfortable with the boundaries I had and the amount of interaction we enjoyed. I visited in person maybe every 3 years. And some would visit me from time to time. 

My son was starting his own life. And is the only truly hard thing about moving. But he's starting his own life. And even if I continued living in LA our interaction would be limited. 

I realized if I moved overseas that besides my son, my communication and interaction with most of the people in my life would not change that much. 

Why I chose the Phillipines:

I considered FL for over 20 years. And if I ever pivot back to the states. That would still be a too two or three candidate. I could probably find a small house or condo (which I refuse to live in unless I was maybe really old and that made life easier) for around 300k. But then you have insurance which is a mess there. And just generally? Every fucking thing in the US has gotten ridiculously expensive. 

I won't go into a discretion on death of the middle class or the massive exchange of wealth during the pandemic. But every single aspect of life has been turned into a business opportunity by corporate America. "Public" utilities are becoming for profit utilities. How they convinced Americans that was a good idea is tragic. CA utilities went from $40 a month to $400. Parking is a fee. Streaming services is a few. Home internet is a fee. Cellphone service is a few. Garbage is a fee. Rent is as much as a mortgage. 

I spent the better part of 30 years stressed to the max, wondering how I was going to pay my $4000 rent the next month. Not to mention the other 3 or 4 grand(?) in just basic bills and fees. Like legit every single thing was turned into a for profit business and cost you something. Everyone had their hand out. I would leave the house and spend at least $200 just running errands. And most of it wasn't for durable goods. Just existing. Paying for gas. Paying for food. All the while making over six figures. 

I "felt" like I had made it. I grew up in a poor, uneducated family. I was living in Southern California making six figures. But I was barely making it and completely miserable. 

Again, why the Phillipines:

On the biggest things affecting "where" was language. Language barriers can be worked around. But I also have hyper intensities on my brain. Which makes for crappy short term memory. Learning a new language was out. This took out much if the cheap countries in EU and Central and South America. And honestly alot of those countries come with a fair amount of culturally accepted violence. I've travelled extensively in Mexico and Central America. I don't fish in Baja anymore. Used to be my favorite place outside of the US. 

SE Asia became worth considering. Vietnam, Thailand and the Phillipines. A few other ones. But either to modern and expensive. I'd lived in Japan before. Really liked it. But expensive and a language barrier I was never going to overcome. 

Long and short of it? Phillipines is the least developed and least functioning of those three - Vietnam, Thailand and the Phillipines. 

The infrastructure sucks. The garbage is everywhere. It's noisy. Dogs, chickens and karaoke is everywhere at all times of day and night. Goods and services are very difficult to evaluate and find. And the bureaucracy fully permeates every business and government entity. The entire country is largely backwards from a traditional, functioning democracy and free market capitalist experience stateside. 

If you come to the third world from the US. Not to a resort. Which is a microcosm and not reality. It can quickly confuse the shit out of you. And become very frustrating. 

Whatever your understanding of the Dominican Republic is? Go rent an apt or house there for at least 6 months to a year. Going on vacation in a third world country gives you absolutely no understanding what living there is like. Except maybe the weather. And the weather is the good part. 

What's good in the Phillipines then?:

Don't confuse this with a sales pitch for the Phillipines. It's not. It's right for "me" thus far. Which has nothing to do with you or anyone else reading this. What you need and want and what your willing or capable of exchanging for those plusses and minuses is a very singular proposition. Consider what you want deeply and honestly. And do your own research. Yours may send you to a completely different continent. Even if millions love a place doesn't mean it's right for you. 

Land and building is very inexpensive here. I can create the homestead I want for less than 100k here. Even less if I were more conservative with how much land I could live with. You need an attorney for everything you do here. Especially real estate and building. You need an independant professional to oversee anything you build. You need an architect and hopefully closely associated builder or team of both. 

The nature here is incredible. It's thousands of island in the tropical Pacific. 

The people are largely happy. Down to earth. Friendly. And violence is not really a thing. Except in rare occurances. Women walk around in the middle of the night not worried about being raped or beaten or robbed. I've never even seen a traffic argument. Rarely hear a horn used in anger. 

It's nothing like Central or South America. Or the Caribbean from what I read. 

There is theft and scams. People routinely surround their property with 10 foot concrete walls and iron gates. The poverty in the third world is deep. Here is no exception. Lock your shit up and have a security plan. Own a big dog. Own two or three big dogs. Guns are not outlawed here. Except for expats. But a filapina can own as many as she likes. As long as she gets the proper paperwork. 

The real struggle in the third world. And how to deal with it:

The third world is run largely like countries have been run for ever. Except maybe the US democratic movement and a few other countries over the last couple hundred years. You have to understand the US is the exception. Not the rule. 

The faster you forget how things work in a functioning democracy, open free market capitalist society - THE BETTER. 

The third world is a corruption based system. An oligarchy. A small group of families and/or associates own everything. The citizens don't. You don't. And the only one that really makes the rules are the corrupt. You don't have rights. You have rules. And they aren't written down. They have laws. But non functioning courts. Not ones that are going to serve you like they "might" in the US. 

That affects everything. And trust me the Demican Republic and every other third world country runs this way. To think differently or that your going to change that or that you have "rights" as a human being - is a fools effort. 

Give up that idea. And start over from scratch. Just learning how things actually work in the country you love too. Otherwise the experience is going to be one where you send your entire time trying to figure out how ridulousky bad it is and how to change it. 

Just understand the "why", let go of change, weigh the good against the bad, and decide it's better where you are. Or it's going to drive you crazy. 

This is why I say you have to live there renting for a year first. To fully understand how different the third world is. How different a society based on curruption is. It's not all bad. It's full of loopholes, and lack of oversight, and massaging the rules with a few bucks here and there. And often times you can get around alot easier than in the US. Often times in the US your so over burdened with bureaucratic bullshit it's impossible. Fees for this. Fees for that. Millions of rules made up for nothing more than a politician or bureaucrats attempt at developing more power or keeping their position. 

I live on a tropical island, for about $600 in rent and everything I need to run my apt. Food is probably $300 including eating at home and eating out. I bought a new car for 10k less than it would cost in the first world. Used cars are out. Probably another $3000 in items that make up for the lack of reliable power and water. Battery station, solar panels, water jugs, gas cans, and back up food. 

If you can afford Starlink I highly suggest it. It's roughly $500-$600 in equipment. And $100 a month. It's different in every country tho. But roughly around there. The residential version is less. But you want the Roam version. While travelling or fleeing in an emergency you always have high speed internet. I have fiber optic at my apt. Semi rare. But it's only maybe $15 a month. Cellular is available but subpar compared to the US. But functional. 

There are to many pluses and minuses to go into. And those will appeal to different people for different reasons. You'll be shocked at how high quality and cheap some things are. And then have a hard time even finding a five gallon bucket. Or some other common thing you take for granted. 

The Dominican Republic sounds like a paradise. The Phillipines is a paradise. But understand what your getting into before moving. And the changes your going to have to make to live a peaceful emotional and psychogical life. 

Lastly, living with another family in the same house? That personally sounds like a terrible idea to me. I think you should live with them renting for a year. Before you commit to buying. That idea sounds great when vacationing. I don't think you've really had the chance to consider the day to day forever implications of that. But I'm not you. My privacy is way to important to me to ever want to do that. 

30 years from now I will very likely be dead or in the "zero f-s left to give" category. 

Moab:
I really appreciate you sharing your story. Sounds like you chose the life you wanted and are living it out, which IMHO is about the best we can do in life.  

I served in the military and worked for various government agencies in different roles, sometimes in law enforcement, for the last 40 years. I just counted and I've lived in three other countries and traveled to 24 other countries. I suppose the worst was Iraq. I didn't live on a military base for a year but in the middle of a particularly violent city, in some of the worst areas. You make the Philippines sound like a paradise by comparison. I did have a bit of help but that kind of thing can be worked out with the proper resources.

The DR homicide rate is about half of the average US urban large city rate or double the overall US average rate. It is often a question of avoiding the high crime areas, not avoid appearing important or rich (Which I am not anyway, so easy) and using common sense. I have considered starting my own security company, which can be done with surprisingly little money, which would give me access to more guards as well as tools. 

Since we would be living in a resort area, it provides all the resources and comforts of home with few exceptions. In the US a comparable life style would simply be unaffordable. My brother in law (the other family) is, the CIO for a medium sized bank so  I think he can handle the internet. He has a lot of special requirements for his job and connectivity. When he lived in the DR previously for a few years he had no problems working from there (although he wasn't the CIO yet).

I agree with you completely about the way corporations run the US now. It is shameful that the congress and other parts of the government have been blinded by the greed of insider trading in the stock market to allow this to happen. I don't have enough fingers to point because it is all of them. 

Quote from: Habu on December 03, 2025, 11:05:40 PMI have to admit, I'm a bit nervous about the idea of living anywhere that I have to factor in the cost of a couple of security guards for my residence.  Especially when the cost is that low . . . if they can be bought that cheaply, they can be bought that cheaply by someone else.  I've lost friends who trusted their "affordable" private security, and got a few offers myself when I was broke enough to work "executive protection". 

I was curious myself and so I did some more digging yesterday and that is just the taxable labor costs. There is an expectation of daily or weekly cash tips as well which is what the entire economy runs on. 

Minimum wage in the DR is around $300/mo which isn't enough to live on. Tips are around $20/ per person per day for an extra total cost of $1000-2400 a month depending upon what you want. If you don't tip then you really can't get workers. The rental company doesn't pay the tips either. While this is an extra cost it is well within the affordable range. 

Quote from: Uomo Senza Nome on December 04, 2025, 08:46:48 AM30 years from now I will very likely be dead or in the "zero f-s left to give" category.

Moab:
I really appreciate you sharing your story. Sounds like you chose the life you wanted and are living it out, which IMHO is about the best we can do in life. 

I served in the military and worked for various government agencies in different roles, sometimes in law enforcement, for the last 40 years. I just counted and I've lived in three other countries and traveled to 24 other countries. I suppose the worst was Iraq. I didn't live on a military base for a year but in the middle of a particularly violent city, in some of the worst areas. You make the Philippines sound like a paradise by comparison. I did have a bit of help but that kind of thing can be worked out with the proper resources.

The DR homicide rate is about half of the average US urban large city rate or double the overall US average rate. It is often a question of avoiding the high crime areas, not avoid appearing important or rich (Which I am not anyway, so easy) and using common sense. I have considered starting my own security company, which can be done with surprisingly little money, which would give me access to more guards as well as tools.

Since we would be living in a resort area, it provides all the resources and comforts of home with few exceptions. In the US a comparable life style would simply be unaffordable. My brother in law (the other family) is, the CIO for a medium sized bank so  I think he can handle the internet. He has a lot of special requirements for his job and connectivity. When he lived in the DR previously for a few years he had no problems working from there (although he wasn't the CIO yet).

I agree with you completely about the way corporations run the US now. It is shameful that the congress and other parts of the government have been blinded by the greed of insider trading in the stock market to allow this to happen. I don't have enough fingers to point because it is all of them.

If you've traveled that much? No worries. And your willing to live in a development. I assume they have security. No problem then. 

So what's your reasons for leaving?

QuoteIf you've traveled that much? No worries. And your willing to live in a development. I assume they have security. No problem then. 

So what's your reasons for leaving?

Inflation has driven quality of life to a ridiculous extreme. In the last two years for example my home owners insurance has increased 50%. I have never made a claim and am in a relatively safe area no-flood area. Property tax has gone up 25% and my house didn't increase in value that much. Sure, I have a cheap mortgage because I bought before the price surge but my mortgage payment is now 15% higher in two years.

The average cost of a fast food meal is around $14 with tax. I don't even eat fast food. Last summer when I was in Greece I was able to get a Tomahawk rib eye with all the fixings (and wine) for $40 at a nice restaurant. You can't even buy the steak raw for that much at the commissary. Gas was comparable to the US, food was much cheaper, hell everything was cheaper.  I could go on and on but everything costs more and you get less. I can't even get haircut for less than $25 anymore, not including tip. 

I'm also tired of the bullshit politics. You have leftist proxies attacking government facilities with rifles, the central government engaged in the extra-judicial killings of drug runners and every last one of the elected office holders seem to have given up any pretense of working together and are nakedly in it for themselves. More?

QuoteAccording to a Brookings Institution analysis from last year, 43 percent of American families don't earn enough to pay for housing, food, health care, child care, and transportation; every week, they must juggle which to pay and which not to pay. Among Black and Latino families, those figures rise to 59 percent and 66 percent, respectively.

 Worker pay ratios over the past decade have shown that CEOs usually make about 300 times what their median-paid employee makes, a far cry from the 1960s, when the ratio was roughly 20-to-1. 

The only things that are cheap these days in the US is gasoline, TV's, computers and smart phones. Good if you want to sit on your funny bone and watch the screen all day, I don't.  

When you think about it though it is the way ahead. Corporate America found out years ago that sending production offshore was cheaper, even though it resulted in the eventual destruction of the company in many cases. 

I am essentially doing the same thing, and am going to off shore my retirement.