My nephew will be turning 12 in February.  Over the holidays, my brother and I briefly talked about me getting my nephew his first knife (my brother isn't much of a knife guy - I've actually bought several knives and multitools for him as gifts).  I need to confirm more explicitly that he's okay with a knife as a gift, but I'm starting to look around and get some ideas in the meantime.

A few guidelines - this is a first knife and as such, may end up getting lost or destroyed, so I don't want to spend a lot of money; probably no more than $40.  While I've considered a Swiss Army Knife or a multitool, it seems that a "first knife" should really be that - just a knife.  Probably one or two blades, but no more than three.  (FYI, my first knife was a two bladed Colonial Prov USA, like this one)

As such, I'm leaning toward something like one of the entry level Schrade or Buck knives.  Probably a nail nick, rather than something like a flipper or thumb stud.  He's a decent sized kid (already about 5'5") so hand size shouldn't be too much of an issue.  If I get a locking blade, I'd prefer a lockback, as that seems like an easier mechanism to use for an inexperienced knife owner (even after 40 years of knife ownership, I still don't care for liner locks).  And I'm thinking rather traditional with the knife design - wood, brass, stainless, faux horn, etc.  No crazy colors / wild designs.

A few ideas so far:

• Buck Trapper 382
• Buck 389 Canoe
• Schrade Old Timer
• Schrade Old Timer 33OT Middleman
• Old Timer Heritage 5OT Bruin
• Schrade Old Timer 7OT Cave Bear

So what are your thoughts?  Anything that I'm missing or reasons why I'm wrong about the considerations above?    One other consideration - I won't be there in person to give it to him, so I'll have to rely on my brother to handle the instructions on use and safety.  Given that I'm the one with scars from using a knife improperly as a kid, that might be better anyway... 

Oh, and one more thing.  Any suggestions on simple knife care / sharpening to go with it?  Should I just get him a basic whetstone, or would it make more sense to get him something like a Sharpal sharpening tool?

Edit - I think CRKT or Gerber might be a better choice.

I would look at CRKT or Gerber. You really want a lock blade. Not over 3 inches. A simple wet stone and can of 3 n 1 oil. Or any small oil bottle that you can easily drip a drop at a time. With easy open and close cap. You also want a rough textured or rubber handle.

Why?

CRKT or Gerber is good but not expensive.

The only times I've cut myself on a knife. Was when it closed on my fingers. Same with about any kid handling a knife. Simple thumb stud.

Any longer than 3 inches us to long imho for a kid.

Whetstone all the way. Those V sharpeners are crap. And will ruin a blade. Anything fancier is for hair shaving adults. Once he learns how to sharpen with a whetstone he can sharpen anything. Even on a smooth rock. Which is a valuable survival skill. No V sharpeners growing on trees. Its also a light tension action. You can gkide the blade across. Verses the more extreme oressure the V type sharpeners take. Alot more likely to cut himself badly.

Oil for the stone. Any oil will work. It just needs to be in a small flip nozzle or twist nozzle. I like flip cause its positive close. You know when its fully closed.

Rough textured or rubber handle for grip. Way harder to slip out of young clumsy hands.

Cheaper if you don't buy from manufacturer website. These are just random ones I found that meet above criteria:
 
https://www.crkt.com/knife/tuna-compact-folding-knife-with-frame-lock

https://knife-depot.com/products/knife-140064

https://knife-depot.com/products/knife-338838

Small Keychain Thin Lightweight Pocket Knife for Kids, Men, Women Everyday Carry, Stainless Steel Blade G10 Handle Mini Pocket Folding Knife for Camping, Hunting, Survival, Outdoors (Green-B) ... https://a.co/d/bg5Sqvc

Any of those knives would make fine gifts.  As far as a sharpener, definitely the Sharpal-type over the whetstone.  You can theoretically get a better edge with a whetstone and it'll certainly last longer.  But it requires patience and technique.  That's a tall order for a 12 year old new to knives.  

A whetsone like this does not require getting your opposite hand anywhere near the blade. And does not require a great deal of force. It also has a rubber bottom that holds it in place.

HURRICANE Whetstone Knife Sharpening Stone, 2 Side Grit 1000/6000 Waterstone, Whetstone Knife Sharpener, Non-Slip Bamboo Base & Angle Guide https://a.co/d/3ibBKyn

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Where as the hand held V notch type like above. Requires hand strength to hold the sharpener. And a fair amount of force to drag the blade between the V notch. It is not a light slide. It requires a strong grip on both sharpener and knife. With the left hand that close to the blade - with a handheld sharpener - the risk of a 12 yr old cutting himself is high.

With the whetstone he can start out with only the hand holding the knife. With the whetstone sitting solidly on a table. His left hand coming nowhere near the blade.

He also does not have to take a strong, fast or hard swipe with the sharpening stone. He can take just an easy slow glide across the stone. Which even when your an experienced knife sharpener takes little effort. And very little force.

Its not like the V notch ones where you have to pull really hard to drag it across the V shaped sharpening blades. You have to really drag the knife hard between those sharpening blades to get them to shave off metal.

Not to mention all that force being held by the couple fingers of your left hand holding the sharpener. It's really kind of a precarious device. And because it is not a smooth flat surface - but two sharp pointed blades - it will easily create waves and irregularities in the knifes blade.

Which is fine in say a factory or meat processing plant. Where they are normally used. As those cheap knives can be easily replaced. And speed is a factor in the processing. But I would not use one on a personal knife. Especially if it had any value. Using one of these is just setting him up to use an improper tool.

There are many very good tutorials for sharpening with a whetstone on youtube. It is really very simple once you get the angle figured out. And a cheap knife is the best thing to start with. (Your $50 budget is not cheap imho. But you get my meaning. But even if he gets the angle wrong a few times in a whetstone. That can be easily corrected. Which isn't the case with the V type. They take a great deal of metal each swipe. And could take a fair amount if time in a whetstone to fix.)

Sharpening with a whetstone it's very easy to see on the blade where you are grinding. And easy to get the angle right. It just takes a couple minutes of trial an error.

This is also only $9.99.

I've got a few kids around the age of 12, and plenty of friends with kids that age. The last birthday we went to, their boy really wanted a pocket knife, so we got him this Kershaw Brawler with a 3.0" blade. It's a solid knife, it locks in place, and fits his hand nicely. I agree with what a few of the others, a 3.0" blade is about right for a 12 year old boy, and teaching them how to sharpen it will go a long way towards a life long skill...

What about a small fixed blade ?

Might be safer for a knife newbie than a folder.

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on January 31, 2024, 03:50:55 PMWhat about a small fixed blade ?

Might be safer for a knife newbie than a folder.

That would be safer. But I wouldn't be to worried with a 12 yr old. They should be able to handle a simple folding knife. If he was 5 then ya. I'd highly suggest a fixed blade. 

Quote from: Moab on January 31, 2024, 04:33:23 PM

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on January 31, 2024, 03:50:55 PMWhat about a small fixed blade ?

Might be safer for a knife newbie than a folder.

That would be safer. But I wouldn't be to worried with a 12 yr old. They should be able to handle a simple folding knife. If he was 5 then ya. I'd highly suggest a fixed blade.

I'd say that probably depends on the 12 year old.

I've known some that are smarter than most adults and a few that probably need to be wrapped in Nerf padding for the rest of their lives for their own safety.

Now that I think about it, though, I know a lot of adults like that as well. 

I think it's better to stick with a folding knife, as that allows him to carry it easily without people freaking out.  He's home-schooled, so no issues with school zones.  But most of the family's outside activities are through their church, and a fixed blade in a sheath wouldn't go over very well there.

Quote from: EBuff75 on January 31, 2024, 08:04:44 PMI think it's better to stick with a folding knife, as that allows him to carry it easily without people freaking out.  He's home-schooled, so no issues with school zones.  But most of the family's outside activities are through their church, and a fixed blade in a sheath wouldn't go over very well there.

Good point. A folder would be a lot easier to conceal than a fixed blade.

I think Moab is definitely on to something. I have a Gerber Paraframe that I love: solid locking mechanism, easy to sharpen blade, durable pocket clip with good retention...but it has a thumb stud, so maybe not...

Have you considered an Opinel? 

Opinel

It's within your price range, is sharp and can be kept sharp easily, has a solid locking mechanism and is made of more traditional materials. 

It's not too flashy either. Two hands to open and lock it, and a twist-to-lock mechanism that seems pretty fool proof. It can be locked closed or locked open. 

I owned an Opinel as a boy, then a Swiss Army Knife for a while...it was the Swiss Army Knife that folded up on my finger and made me look for locking knives from then on. 

Quote from: EBuff75 on January 31, 2024, 08:04:44 PMI think it's better to stick with a folding knife, as that allows him to carry it easily without people freaking out.  He's home-schooled, so no issues with school zones.  But most of the family's outside activities are through their church, and a fixed blade in a sheath wouldn't go over very well there.

That's funny. Cause in this day an age I assumed it wouldn't be anything he'd be allowed to carry.

Glad to hear he's in such a great situation. There were alot of things I wish I could have allowed my son. But living in Los Angeles it just wasn't an option. 

Quote from: echo83 on January 31, 2024, 09:05:08 PMI think Moab is definitely on to something. I have a Gerber Paraframe that I love: solid locking mechanism, easy to sharpen blade, durable pocket clip with good retention...but it has a thumb stud, so maybe not...

Have you considered an Opinel?

Opinel

It's within your price range, is sharp and can be kept sharp easily, has a solid locking mechanism and is made of more traditional materials.

It's not too flashy either. Two hands to open and lock it, and a twist-to-lock mechanism that seems pretty fool proof. It can be locked closed or locked open.

I owned an Opinel as a boy, then a Swiss Army Knife for a while...it was the Swiss Army Knife that folded up on my finger and made me look for locking knives from then on.

I thought about that, but it might be a little too old-school, if you know what I mean.  I've got one, but it's more of a collectable / curiosity for me and isn't really a knife that I actually use.  I'd be slightly concerned about him carrying one because the locking mechanism is manual - if you forget to twist the collar, it can open up while in your pocket. 

I've got a pair of Opinel knives and I'd say they're not really something I'd hand a knife newbie.

I only bought mine because I had some money left on an Amazon gift card and needed something to qualify for free shipping on an order.

ETA: Victorinox also makes a locking blade SAK, but they're about 20 bucks over the 40 dollar budget.

It occurred to me that a Barlow style knife might be another good pick.  Oddly, they seem to come in two varieties - cheap / crap and expensive / nice.  There really wasn't much in the middle.  The best I could find in my budget was the Rough Rider Denim RR2191 at about $20.  It's a T10 carbon steel blade, so it would require some maintenance to keep it from oxidizing.  The handle on a Barlow is a bit chunky, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, as it should help to keep a good grip on it.

Delete.

Quote from: EBuff75 on January 31, 2024, 10:22:27 PMIt occurred to me that a Barlow style knife might be another good pick. Oddly, they seem to come in two varieties - cheap / crap and expensive / nice. There really wasn't much in the middle. The best I could find in my budget was the Rough Rider Denim RR2191 at about $20. It's a T10 carbon steel blade, so it would require some maintenance to keep it from oxidizing. The handle on a Barlow is a bit chunky, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, as it should help to keep a good grip on it.

Ganzo makes excellent knives. I bought one of their knock offs of a Steeve Reeves folder. It cost me $17. And it is the nicest and nicest finished knife I own. I don't own expensive knives. But it is way better than my Civivis, CRKT, Spyderco, ESEE and Kershaws to name a few. In fit and finish. 

But this Ganzo - Spyderco knock off has a oerfect 2.93" blade, good course handle for a good grip, easy to open either using an easy stud type motion or opening it like you would a non locking folder with both hands, easy to care for stainless steel, and you can get it for him in orange. So he doesn't lose it. 

GANZO Firebird F759M Pocket Folding Knife 440C Stainless Steel Blade Nylon Glass Fiber Anti-Slip Handle with Clip Tactical Survival Fishing Camping EDC Knife (Green) https://a.co/d/aIpGrS4

Ganzo has a nice selection of other styles too.

 
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I had a two blade Imperial when I was 7. Got it for 'Day Camping'. I think a 'pocket knife' is a better starter than a 'Tactical Folder' for a first knife. You can whittle with it and not freak out any observers.

I second Moab's endorsement of Ganzo knives. They are seriously nice for the money.