Couple more posts by Raptor and I think I'll be able to fly the Cessna Citation biz jet myself ...

Quote from: majorhavoc on June 07, 2023, 12:38:00 PMCouple more posts by Raptor and I think I'll be able to fly the Cessna Citation biz jet myself ...

Apparently it flies itself halfway around the country and back all by itself, just don't forget to set the cabin pressure and you should be ok.

Quote from: majorhavoc on June 07, 2023, 12:38:00 PMCouple more posts by Raptor and I think I'll be able to fly the Cessna Citation biz jet myself ...

Flying is easy. It is a motor skill.

Getting into the air is not difficult.
Once airborne all planes come down sooner or later. None have even been stuck in the air.

However landing the plane, at the place you want to go AND having the plane in decent enough condition to immediately use again is where lots of training is required.

Still ... any landing where the ignition key chain is still pointing at the floor and you can exit the aircraft under your own power can be counted as a success.

BTW the takeoff portion of any flight is the most dangerous part of the flight. You are low and slow until the end of the TO run when you are low and fast. Lots of things can happen at the end of a TO run that are not good. If they happen your only recourse is to sit there and do the best you can until the plane brings you to the scene of an accident. Even when you make it into the air there is always a lot of traffic and potential obstructions (trees, towers. birds, etc) around. Hitting a wing when on the ground is expensive, hitting a wing at flight speeds is deadly. 

More on the pilot. He was a little old, but likely as good as they come.

Jeff Hefner, pilot of doomed 'ghost plane' crash in Virginia, was known as 'Mr. Safety' (msn.com)

QuoteHefner was a retired Southwest Airlines captain and former member of its union's board of directors. He had also recently earned the Federal Aviation Administration's highest-level medical certificate and was approved to fly Boeing 737s....


 who has more than 40 years experience flying

The pilot sure had a great CV. ATP pilots who work for airlines have to retire at age 65. To hold an IFR certificate you need a medical certificate from a certified aviation MD. The ATP medical is required every 6 months. This seems to indicate he had the ATP medical certificate.

An experienced pilot like this is certainly one that would be capable of flying the plane safely. He also would not be one that was prone to ignore procedures if he lasted several years with Southwest Airlines.  

Time will tell.

Quote from: Raptor on June 08, 2023, 11:21:32 AM

QuoteHefner was a retired Southwest Airlines captain and former member of its union's board of directors. He had also recently earned the Federal Aviation Administration's highest-level medical certificate and was approved to fly Boeing 737s....


 who has more than 40 years experience flying

The pilot sure had a great CV. ATP pilots who work for airlines have to retire at age 65. To hold an IFR certificate you need a medical certificate from a certified aviation MD. The ATP medical is required every 6 months. This seems to indicate he had the ATP medical certificate.

An experienced pilot like this is certainly one that would be capable of flying the plane safely. He also would not be one that was prone to ignore procedures if he lasted several years with Southwest Airlines. 

Time will tell.

The thing with medical exams is that they can only tell how medically sound you are, right at that moment.  You can still drop dead on your way out of the building.  Or a month later at the controls of a private jet.  All the medical certificate attests to is that you're unlikely to croak at the controls and have no infirmities that make you an unsafe pilot.

Quote from: NT2C on June 08, 2023, 11:34:10 AM

Quote from: Raptor on June 08, 2023, 11:21:32 AM

QuoteHefner was a retired Southwest Airlines captain and former member of its union's board of directors. He had also recently earned the Federal Aviation Administration's highest-level medical certificate and was approved to fly Boeing 737s....


 who has more than 40 years experience flying

The pilot sure had a great CV. ATP pilots who work for airlines have to retire at age 65. To hold an IFR certificate you need a medical certificate from a certified aviation MD. The ATP medical is required every 6 months. This seems to indicate he had the ATP medical certificate.

An experienced pilot like this is certainly one that would be capable of flying the plane safely. He also would not be one that was prone to ignore procedures if he lasted several years with Southwest Airlines. 

Time will tell.

The thing with medical exams is that they can only tell how medically sound you are, right at that moment.  You can still drop dead on your way out of the building.  Or a month later at the controls of a private jet.  All the medical certificate attests to is that you're unlikely to croak at the controls and have no infirmities that make you an unsafe pilot.

This true and a clean bill of health is no exactly a warranty.

That said there several things that will get you a failing medical grade:
1. High Blood pressure (taking medication to control it is also not permitted).
2. Diabetes
3. Seizures of any type including taking meds to prevent them.
4. heart issues of any type.
5. Alcoholism or drug abuse
...and the list goes on.

So the 65+ year old pilot would not likely be suffering from any chronic issues and in much better than average health for a person his age.

But there you have it an older plane that has an excellent fleet safety record flown by an experienced older ex-ATP in good weather crashes and kills 4 people.

There is nothing so unforgiving of mistakes as aviation. 

I ran across this Youtube video which mentions much of what I said but brought up 2 important points that I missed. 

When the F-16s did their flyby they saw the pilot but did not see frosted over cabin windows. Typically when a plane de-pressurizes there is moisture released and in some cases a fog forms that typically will freeze at 34,000 feet. 

This model of Citation both has automatic drop down masks for all as standard gear AND it has a fail safe auto pressurization control so that if the pilot forgets to set the control it will automatically go into the auto mode if the cabin pressure exceeds 15,000 ft. I was not aware of this until I saw this video.  

This person is convinced that there was a medical issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0G9sthn8bU

Damn.  It's a shame they weren't all just asleep for it all.