I was chatting with my buddy about how modern cars sacrifice their lives to protect the passengers using crumple zones.  Modern cars will smoosh up to absorb the energy of the impact to protect the people inside.  However, sometimes relatively minor collisions can completely disable a automobile.  There was a big discussion on another forum when the new Wrangler came out and one was totalled in a 20 mph crash. 

So while it's super safe for people inside, it's not great for EOTWAWKI or even emergency situations.  If you are trying to escape a mob or a tornado or lava flow or whatever, you don't want your vehicle down because you had to run over a sign post or a small tree or fence post or whatever.  Which led us to ponder- what were the last vehicles that were manufactured without crumple zones?  Even though I'm a car enthusiast and a prepper, I didn't know the answer.

I do know that I had a 1991 Wrangler that was hit by a mid 2000's Rav 4 (or maybe CRV).  The other vehicle was totally smashed and had to be towed away, while I finished my commute to work and never ended up fixing the damage.  My frame bent a bit and made my doors sticky, but it was an old Jeep and not worth putting that insurance check into it to bend the frame back.  As mentioned, modern Wranglers certainly aren't that durable, but I don't know when they, or any other car for that matter, changed. 

Any input is appreciated!

Every Yugo, motorcycle and motor scooter lacks a crumple zone...

I do remember when all of the sudden in the 1980's that car safety, (side impact zones, crumple zones and such) suddenly became a mass selling tool. Prior to this Volvo was the main company using safety as a sales tool.

Crumple zones have been around since the 1950's. I am not sure any passenger vehicle made for sale in the US lacks crumple zones. If you look at cars made in and for 3rd world countries you will find some there.   

I figured this topic would have been discussed on other forums or something, but literally nothing. I can say that my grandpas 85 f150 has none. So if you're looking for a vehicle to use as a BOV that would probably be a good one.

Mahindra Roxor?

They're not necessarily street legal (varies by state), but they're basically an old Jeep with a 4-cylinder diesel and very low gearing.

Over here it was the Land Rover Defender. A basic body-on-frame design that can be traced back to 1948. They were only allowed to keep making and selling them because they were a legacy design from before safety standards were a thing 

Sadly discontinued in 2016, although ex-mil ones still trickle onto the market (for silly prices; they were about £4k but now it's more like £14k!).

Quote from: sheddi on June 30, 2021, 04:30:11 PM
Over here it was the Land Rover Defender. A basic body-on-frame design that can be traced back to 1948. They were only allowed to keep making and selling them because they were a legacy design from before safety standards were a thing 

Sadly discontinued in 2016, although ex-mil ones still trickle onto the market (for silly prices; they were about £4k but now it's more like £14k!).

Sounds like old Willys jeeps over here.  When I was a kid you could buy 'em for a couple thousand or so, now they're dear as gold.

1997 F250 vs 2018 Audi Q4 didn't turn out well for the Audi... I got a new bumper and pulled out the front fender.

Quote from: sheddi on June 30, 2021, 04:30:11 PM
Over here it was the Land Rover Defender. A basic body-on-frame design that can be traced back to 1948. They were only allowed to keep making and selling them because they were a legacy design from before safety standards were a thing 

Sadly discontinued in 2016, although ex-mil ones still trickle onto the market (for silly prices; they were about £4k but now it's more like £14k!).

Yeah, those Defenders have never been cheaper than $25k in the US for a used one and now the cheapest one is more like $40k.  They stopped selling them long ago here and the demand has always exceeded the supply on the used market.

Thanks for the input so far!  I may have to start searching individual truck forums to see what changes were made to the frame when.

 :I do know that the last body on frame car was the 2012 Ford Crown victoria if that helps.

Quote from: sheddi on June 30, 2021, 04:30:11 PM
Over here it was the Land Rover Defender. A basic body-on-frame design that can be traced back to 1948. They were only allowed to keep making and selling them because they were a legacy design from before safety standards were a thing 

Sadly discontinued in 2016, although ex-mil ones still trickle onto the market (for silly prices; they were about £4k but now it's more like £14k!).

Beat me to this answer. A sad day, I've been able to drive Defenders but not own one and I think that is just the way it might be

Quote from: boskone on June 30, 2021, 03:33:11 PM
Mahindra Roxor?

They're not necessarily street legal (varies by state), but they're basically an old Jeep with a 4-cylinder diesel and very low gearing.

Wow I was just looking at the web site for this vehicle.
Those are neat.

This may be the answer I was looking for on my farm.
I have been looking for a replacement for an old Polaris side by side that is too costly and old to warrant repair; the cost of new one is silly for what I get. I want a work vehicle not a toy.

This looks more durable and cheaper than an old 4x4 PU truck. A 15 year old 4x4 with 150,000 miles on it is likely more than the Roxor is new.

In my area I cannot use it on the dirt roads (a.k.a."streets") in my area, but honestly I would not be comfortable driving it on the road anyway for obvious reasons. However it can tow a trailer and can be used it to bring a utility trailer to the road if necessary. That who cares if it get dirty and beat up as long as it runs.


Back to the OP's question in a PAW a vehicle like this likely to be more useful
https://www.atvtrader.com/listing/2018-Mahindra-RETRIEVER-5016941777

This uses a 750cc Kohler engine. The engine is a simple air cooled 25 hp engine. It is simple to work on and easy to replace. The key problem with my ATV is the transmission. 
https://kohlerpower.com/en/engines/product/command-pro-ch750

This may be more practical assuming you could import it. A Mahindra Bolero
https://www.mahindratruckandbus.com/light-commercial-vehicles/jayo/jayo-tipper-specification.aspx

Quote from: Raptor on June 30, 2021, 02:41:08 PM
Every Yugo, motorcycle and motor scooter lacks a crumple zone...

Sometimes the driver is the crumple zone.

Quote from: NT2C on July 01, 2021, 01:43:04 PM

Quote from: Raptor on June 30, 2021, 02:41:08 PM
Every Yugo, motorcycle and motor scooter lacks a crumple zone...

Sometimes the driver is the crumple zone.

Yep...Now in the case of the Yugo the lack of a crumple zone would not be problem...unless it was rolling down hill.

Quote from: Raptor on July 01, 2021, 11:50:27 AM
In my area I cannot use it on the dirt roads (a.k.a."streets") in my area, but honestly I would not be comfortable driving it on the road anyway for obvious reasons.

I don't know if your area has a similar law, but in TX UTVs can be used on-road for agricultural purposes if within--IIRC--25 miles.

They wouldn't be my first choice for a road vehicle without some additions, but if home->farm is within that range I think the cost of lights and mirrors might be worthwhile.

Quote from: Raptor on July 01, 2021, 01:46:57 PM

Quote from: NT2C on July 01, 2021, 01:43:04 PM

Quote from: Raptor on June 30, 2021, 02:41:08 PM
Every Yugo, motorcycle and motor scooter lacks a crumple zone...

Sometimes the driver is the crumple zone.

Yep...Now in the case of the Yugo the lack of a crumple zone would not be problem...unless it was rolling down hill.

The last Yugo I saw ( bout five years back ) on the street. The hood, one front fender and opposite  side door had been replaced with chain link fence

I know someone that has a gremlin in excellent condition they'd take offers on. 

Yeah, I agree a modern side by side, like a Roxor or Honda Pioneer, would be an ideal PAW vehicle.  Lots of suspension travel for unmaintained roadways, easy to get in and out, easy to repair, smaller to fit through places a full size vehicle would not.

For this thread I was more thinking of a daily commuter that can escape a riot without getting disabled.  I mean, the obvious choice is the right motorcycle, but pondering what 4 wheeled vehicle can jump a curb and go over a couple parking meters without being damaged enough to render inoperable if that is the only path to safety.  Not that it's terribly likely to happen, but it's an interesting mental exercise.  It led me to read a lot about truck frames, in which I learned modern mid size trucks have crumple zones in the rear of their frames and often get bent in relatively minor rear end accidents.  Keeps the occupants safer for sure, but leaves them without a working vehicle.

FYI, Mahindra sells a street legal version of the Roxor with some added safety equipment. It's a couple grand more than the base model Roxor, though.

And the Roxor can be made street legal in some states. All it takes is adding things like turn signals and other little bits.

Oh?  Last I'd heard they were UTVs and never street legal.  That's interesting.

Quote from: PistolPete on July 02, 2021, 10:58:43 AM

For this thread I was more thinking of a daily commuter that can escape a riot without getting disabled.  I mean, the obvious choice is the right motorcycle, but pondering what 4 wheeled vehicle can jump a curb and go over a couple parking meters without being damaged enough to render inoperable if that is the only path to safety.  Not that it's terribly likely to happen, but it's an interesting mental exercise.  It led me to read a lot about truck frames, in which I learned modern mid size trucks have crumple zones in the rear of their frames and often get bent in relatively minor rear end accidents.  Keeps the occupants safer for sure, but leaves them without a working vehicle.

For this I think a low profile (read not fancy) white Ford (or Chevy) work truck like an Ford XL with appropriate front "brush guard" and skid plate/oil pan shield would be ideal. It would not attract attention you could attach some made up magnetic signs to the doors with a fictitious company logo on it to further blend into a situation. A dirty white truck with a "Fred & Ethel's Portapotti & Sewer Cleaning" sign on it will not be a target for anyone. Paint the front guard and skid plate gray to blend in better or put a sign on it and it will not look out of place. A 4X4 is not necessary to climb over curbs but maybe lift it up just a bit to get more ground clearance. The ground clearance is what you want in a urban setting.

Another alternative may be a small SUV with the push bars mounted to the frame. I would also suggest a Crown Victoria with the same treatment but it would stand out like a sore thumb.

One final point. Driving in a car is likely the most dangerous thing most of us will do (statistically speaking). One thing to consider is vehicles without crumple zones are inherently less safe to occupants than those with crumple zones. If you are using this vehicle daily as opposed to only during a "crisis" then you may actually be increasing your risk to car accidents by seeking to have a good urban issues vehicle.   


My $.02