Do we have anything set up for if the site went down? Facebook group? Signal app contacts list? Alternative forum? I set one up awhile ago. Was super easy.
Signal is fairly secure. But i have not used it alot. Its one of the top apps for this.
Good question. I am not sure we have anything set up except mod emails. The Mods obviously have text contact with each other but yes we should have a fall back method of comms.
Agreed. I think a fall back method of communication for the site would be a good idea.
Lets do some research.
But maybe a tiered system would work. Maybe an app an temp forum. And then mods can add people to a text list? Tjat way u dont have to give up your phone number if u dont want.
Textline is awesome. Ive used it alot. But something like signal with encryption would be better.
Maybe just a signal group we all sign into and leave up. In case something happens. And mods that could set up a one way text blast. Directing everyone where to go for additional comms. Like ifthe internet went down but cellular didnt?
Just thinking out loud here. Someone on the internet has undoubtedly researches this and come up with a plan.
Here i created a ufozs group on signal. Below is the link. But a mod or someone should approve this so it can be shared somehow with everyone. Maybe a one time admin email with our comms strategy and links to group chats, alt foruma etc...?
https://signal.group/#CjQKIJ-yebW27QU8hxUlzRR3a9JRaISBFjbGbyJhOPlMbN1YEhAMCj96m6ys-f0JGipyuWQs
Carrier pigeon?
If the site went down I'd be pretty surprised (our hosting company has an outstanding record and better than 99.99% uptime) but if it did happen then the outage would likely affect most of the other ways of reaching each other. Even if a terrorist attack were to take out the data center where our server is located, we have off-site backups that would be used to restore the site at a different data center, usually within 12 hours.
Quote from: NT2C on January 21, 2022, 05:31:46 PM
If the site went down I'd be pretty surprised (our hosting company has an outstanding record and better than 99.99% uptime) but if it did happen then the outage would likely affect most of the other ways of reaching each other. Even if a terrorist attack were to take out the data center where our server is located, we have off-site backups that would be used to restore the site at a different data center, usually within 12 hours.
What about EMP attack at a national level? Thermo nuclear strikes at key data centers? You know ,pretty much what we are facing with a confrontation with Russia over Ukraine going full war?
Quote from: flybynight on January 22, 2022, 11:24:11 AM
Quote from: NT2C on January 21, 2022, 05:31:46 PM
If the site went down I'd be pretty surprised (our hosting company has an outstanding record and better than 99.99% uptime) but if it did happen then the outage would likely affect most of the other ways of reaching each other. Even if a terrorist attack were to take out the data center where our server is located, we have off-site backups that would be used to restore the site at a different data center, usually within 12 hours.
What about EMP attack at a national level? Thermo nuclear strikes at key data centers? You know ,pretty much what we are facing with a confrontation with Russia over Ukraine going full war?
I'll send smoke signals, 'cause about the only thing you'll have left to receive any kind of signal will be the ol' Mk 1 Eyeball... If the nuke flash didn't burn 'em out.
How about instead you and the other members who are hams get together and show us a low cost set up so in the event of worst case we can keep in touch? Our membership stretches from sea to shining sea. It would benefit us all to know what is going on in Virginia, Iowa, Alabama, Texas, California and all the other places .
Something simple that even old dumb ass's like me can use
Quote from: flybynight on January 22, 2022, 05:15:44 PM
How about instead you and the other members who are hams get together and show us a low cost set up so in the event of worst case we can keep in touch? Our membership stretches from sea to shining sea. It would benefit us all to know what is going on in Virginia, Iowa, Alabama, Texas, California and all the other places .
Something simple that even old dumb ass's like me can use
Given your EMP scenario, ham gear will suffer the same fate as most other electronics not hardened against that. And, all my ham radios (except for two short range VHF/UHF rigs) are in Idaho.
My thoughts ramble with the scotch so take it for what it's worth...
I gotta agree with NT2C. Things go Mushroom cloud, It'll be back to smoke signals unless you have stuff hardened or stored for that eventuality. Most communication now a days crosses in to the internet. Phones, TV, etc.
If it's sudden (EMP / Nuke) and something takes out the server farms, you'll likely lose phone service (landline and cellular), internet, TV...
You'd expect the Ham radios to function, but odds are that any EMP will fry most of those as well. I wouldn't expect most modern radio stations to be able to continue to function due to the amount of 'technology' they now use. Some old station broadcasting from old 1950's equipment, or a random pirate station may survive, but...
My hope is that if something happens it's slow or cyber. In that scenario, I can imagine Ham radios being very useful. And as trite as it sounds, the best option for that is picking up a ham license and learning how to do it, if you want to communicate.
Another option would be sourcing a cheap multi band receiver and store it for the long haul in a Faraday type cage? Cost is significantly cheaper and you don't need a license to practice... You could then at least HEAR what was going on, as long as unsecured comm's / Hams in other countries / survivalists in their mountain bunkers / others were broadcasting.
Possible do a combination of the above. Get a technician license so you can broadcast. Learn Morse code (NOTE: You do not need to know this anymore for a license ) and learn about long range CW communication... A small low power CW transceiver can be stored next to the receiver you purchased above...
A quick search of amazon shows receivers from $20(Tecsun? brand 10 channel) to $400 (Eaton Elite)
Following that CW kits start at ~$10 Pixie kits-if you can assemble your own to a few hundred depending on what you want...
So low end, you can get a very basic end of the world kit you can store in an static bag, faraday case, ammo can, trash can... for <$50.
As for the board? if the datacenter burned down, new ip's would likely start propagating in less than a day from a back up location and be back available.
IIRC the difference (And NT2C can correct me) is that we are using an actual data center now, where before we were sitting on a machine in someones closet? Or at least now we have 4 (I believe) admins that can contact and initiate tickets with the datacenter to troubleshoot.
Currently, yes, we are in an actual data center with all the good stuff like redundant power and regular (twice daily) backups. Previously, I think we were in the trunk of a VW Golf using 4G LTE on the Chicago Loop.
Regarding post-apocalyptic radio comms there are two things to keep in mind:
- Whatever took out the regular comms will likely have lingering aftereffects for radio comms
- If whatever took out the regular comms was the result of hostilities, any new transmitter coming online becomes a target, and military grade anti-radiation missiles don't play nice
Quote from: NT2C on January 22, 2022, 06:27:54 PM
Currently, yes, we are in an actual data center with all the good stuff like redundant power and regular (twice daily) backups. Previously, I think we were in the trunk of a VW Golf using 4G LTE on the Chicago Loop.
Regarding post-apocalyptic radio comms there are two things to keep in mind:
- Whatever took out the regular comms will likely have lingering aftereffects for radio comms
- If whatever took out the regular comms was the result of hostilities, any new transmitter coming online becomes a target, and military grade anti-radiation missiles don't play nice
So are you expecting hostile foreign troops on U.S. soil, or that a intercontinental ballistic missile is launched when you fire up your radio ?
Quote from: flybynight on January 22, 2022, 07:18:48 PM
Quote from: NT2C on January 22, 2022, 06:27:54 PM
Currently, yes, we are in an actual data center with all the good stuff like redundant power and regular (twice daily) backups. Previously, I think we were in the trunk of a VW Golf using 4G LTE on the Chicago Loop.
Regarding post-apocalyptic radio comms there are two things to keep in mind:
- Whatever took out the regular comms will likely have lingering aftereffects for radio comms
- If whatever took out the regular comms was the result of hostilities, any new transmitter coming online becomes a target, and military grade anti-radiation missiles don't play nice
So are you expecting hostile foreign troops on U.S. soil, or that a intercontinental ballistic missile is launched when you fire up your radio ?
If we're at the point where EMP nukes are being employed, you tell me. What I do know for certain is twofold, first, that I will have bigger problems than ensuring we all stay in contact, and second, that the .gov types will order all civilian radio traffic off the air (should any have survived), especially ham radio operators. We did this all through WWII so there's precedent for it. That being the case, this falls under the heading of discussing illegal activities. (drops mic)
OK so not end of the world but what about local outages? Like MPMallory was it he was out of action for a week or 2 is there something to keep tabs on members to make sure they are ok? I mean Facebook and text work , internet works as a whole but one or 2 members in a disaster area aint on for a few days , do we have anyone that has a list of contacts for site members to check up on them?
Quote from: Rednex on January 23, 2022, 07:47:23 AM
OK so not end of the world but what about local outages? Like MPMallory was it he was out of action for a week or 2 is there something to keep tabs on members to make sure they are ok? I mean Facebook and text work , internet works as a whole but one or 2 members in a disaster area aint on for a few days , do we have anyone that has a list of contacts for site members to check up on them?
Our staff has access to the email address you sign up with. Additionally, if you have other social media accounts it's common to share that info with friends on here. We also encourage you to make friends with other members that might be in your area or who share special interests with you and setup lines of communication with them. It comes down to what you, the individual, choose to share with us.
For example, on my part, all of the staff members have my cell number, my wife's cell number, at least one of my email addresses, and those savvy enough to look up my call sign have my mailing address. There are also local members I have contact with outside of the forum (Beo has been to my house more than a few times for example) and I've met many of the members here in person during their or mine travels around the USA.
Pick who you'd like to exchange info with and do so. This is an online family we have, not just a community.
Quote from: flybynight on January 22, 2022, 05:15:44 PM
How about instead you and the other members who are hams get together and show us a low cost set up so in the event of worst case we can keep in touch? Our membership stretches from sea to shining sea. It would benefit us all to know what is going on in Virginia, Iowa, Alabama, Texas, California and all the other places .
Something simple that even old dumb ass's like me can use
I have to agree. There has to be value in some form of communications we could use as a group. Obviously something each member could opt into.
It doesnt have to be in the event of something that kills all comm tools ie an emp. It could be in the event the powers start shutting things down. Or a regional disaster where everyone in that region has lost all internet, but not cell. So youd rely on text say. Or theyve lost everything but youve got ham capability. So you break out the ham radio. I have to admit im not a ham expert. I do uae scanners alot. I know u can talk across long distances with ham. But i think u need a base unit. Not just a handheld. But i could be wrong.
Lastly, i dont think this is something the staff should shoulder. It would be a big job that a few people would probably have to handle. Researching various comms capabilities. Compiling lists of participants etc.
Maybe this is a reason for me to get deeper into ham. Ive spent alot of time listening to ham with a scanner. Its pretty entertaining.
Quote from: Moab on January 21, 2022, 01:09:19 PM
Do we have anything set up for if the site went down? Facebook group? Signal app contacts list? Alternative forum? I set one up awhile ago. Was super easy.
Signal is fairly secure. But i have not used it alot. Its one of the top apps for this.
This is the back up one you set up before.
https://zombiehunters.freeforums.net/board/1/general-discussion
Quote from: MacWa77ace on January 28, 2022, 04:00:18 PM
Quote from: Moab on January 21, 2022, 01:09:19 PM
Do we have anything set up for if the site went down? Facebook group? Signal app contacts list? Alternative forum? I set one up awhile ago. Was super easy.
Signal is fairly secure. But i have not used it alot. Its one of the top apps for this.
This is the back up one you set up before.
https://zombiehunters.freeforums.net/board/1/general-discussion
Thank u. I had totally lost that. That would be a good start. And a first level of covering our asses.
Quote from: Moab on January 28, 2022, 01:21:26 PM
Quote from: flybynight on January 22, 2022, 05:15:44 PM
How about instead you and the other members who are hams get together and show us a low cost set up so in the event of worst case we can keep in touch? Our membership stretches from sea to shining sea. It would benefit us all to know what is going on in Virginia, Iowa, Alabama, Texas, California and all the other places .
Something simple that even old dumb ass's like me can use
I have to agree. There has to be value in some form of communications we could use as a group. Obviously something each member could opt into.
It doesnt have to be in the event of something that kills all comm tools ie an emp. It could be in the event the powers start shutting things down. Or a regional disaster where everyone in that region has lost all internet, but not cell. So youd rely on text say. Or theyve lost everything but youve got ham capability. So you break out the ham radio. I have to admit im not a ham expert. I do uae scanners alot. I know u can talk across long distances with ham. But i think u need a base unit. Not just a handheld. But i could be wrong.
Lastly, i dont think this is something the staff should shoulder. It would be a big job that a few people would probably have to handle. Researching various comms capabilities. Compiling lists of participants etc.
Maybe this is a reason for me to get deeper into ham. Ive spent alot of time listening to ham with a scanner. Its pretty entertaining.
Yes, get involved in ham radio beyond just listening. It's quite a lot of fun, extremely educational, and a good eye-opener to the realities of radio communication. That "low-cost, simple, worst-case setup" that FBM mentioned? It doesn't exist. Not for most people's definition of "low-cost". Hell, ham radio is not an inexpensive hobby. The cheapest HF rig I ever bought was a $400 25-year-old Kenwood with a cracked circuit board. Next up from that was a $750 Icom mobile rig on its 6th owner. New HF? Bring your deepest purse when you go shopping, and don't forget you'll need antennas, coax, mounts, masts, maybe a tower, laptops and monitors in addition to the transceiver. "Low-cost ham radio" is a phrase right up there with "inexpensive off-shore racing" and "budget Formula 1 car"
Shortwave as a starting point. A SDR (software defined radio) would be useful and possibly cheaper. A good antenna would help. But that is 1 way communication. But world wide 1 way communication, so that is pretty cool.
As for keeping in touch with all of us? If an EMP goes off I'll be busy with my new dirt farmer skills. Currently, making sort is what I'm best at. And not the valuable compost type diet, just the regular kind. I'm working on my skillet and will keep people posted eventually. I'm hoping this spring/summer I'll have something to report.
The other possibility is "economic collapse and rolling blackouts" and maybe "roving gangs of criminals disrupting delivery of normal public services." If that happens I think some radio nets would be useful and short wave or SDRers will be able to listen in. That is a pretty narrow subset of people who would be able to participate in the net in such a situation.
I think the most useful thing, if there is disruption of comms that brings down local/regional/national access to the forum, is to get face to face contact with local people. But I suspect we will never see "world wide" disruption.
It would be super cool if we set up a bunch of low power stations to send info using digital modes on HF like FT8 and FLDigi for comms with the crowd in difficult situations. But I really see any members in tough situations being pretty caught up in the .... local situation ... and not especially focused on communication with the forum. Raptor has done that though, signing in after disasters, but only after his local situation is ... relatively.... under control.
So backups are important. But I feel the thing which causes the need for a backup may be too serious for much communication?
My wife says we should all move together in a big commune. I do think that would solve the comms issue. And now she is mentioning that she and I haven't figured out how to communicate about whose towels is whose so don't hold high expectations for emergency comms from me .... she is right, even if a little snarky. :D
Quote from: NT2C on January 28, 2022, 07:45:40 PM
That "low-cost, simple, worst-case setup" that FBM mentioned? It doesn't exist. Not for most people's definition of "low-cost". Hell, ham radio is not an inexpensive hobby. The cheapest HF rig I ever bought was a $400 25-year-old Kenwood with a cracked circuit board. Next up from that was a $750 Icom mobile rig on its 6th owner. New HF? Bring your deepest purse when you go shopping, and don't forget you'll need antennas, coax, mounts, masts, maybe a tower, laptops and monitors in addition to the transceiver. "Low-cost ham radio" is a phrase right up there with "inexpensive off-shore racing" and "budget Formula 1 car"
I'm going to disagree with you. There are a number of low-cost, Chinese SW transceivers available nowadays. Older hams scoff at Baofeng and related radios, but I couldn't have become a licensed ham radio operator without my $30 handheld transceiver. With a homemade J-pole antenna I was hitting repeaters 30 miles away with the 5-watt, Baofeng UV-5R.
I have a 25-watt Radioddity DB25 (sub $100 when on sale) in my vehicles and it does great. Here's the writeup I did on it:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=111.0
Here's the "Ham Radio 101" link:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=112.0
If you watch the sales, a serviceable system can be acquired for under $50. That's cheap enough to stick in a Faraday cage, waiting the Day After.
-Blast
Quote from: Blast on January 31, 2022, 12:26:02 PM
Quote from: NT2C on January 28, 2022, 07:45:40 PM
That "low-cost, simple, worst-case setup" that FBM mentioned? It doesn't exist. Not for most people's definition of "low-cost". Hell, ham radio is not an inexpensive hobby. The cheapest HF rig I ever bought was a $400 25-year-old Kenwood with a cracked circuit board. Next up from that was a $750 Icom mobile rig on its 6th owner. New HF? Bring your deepest purse when you go shopping, and don't forget you'll need antennas, coax, mounts, masts, maybe a tower, laptops and monitors in addition to the transceiver. "Low-cost ham radio" is a phrase right up there with "inexpensive off-shore racing" and "budget Formula 1 car"
I'm going to disagree with you. There are a number of low-cost, Chinese SW transceivers available nowadays. Older hams scoff at Baofeng and related radios, but I couldn't have become a licensed ham radio operator without my $30 handheld transceiver. With a homemade J-pole antenna I was hitting repeaters 30 miles away with the 5-watt, Baofeng UV-5R.
I have a 25-watt Radioddity DB25 (sub $100 when on sale) in my vehicles and it does great. Here's the writeup I did on it:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=111.0
Here's the "Ham Radio 101" link:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=112.0
If you watch the sales, a serviceable system can be acquired for under $50. That's cheap enough to stick in a Faraday cage, waiting the Day After.
-Blast
I was going to mention the baofengs too.
Out of curiosity will the base unit u mention pick up stuff worldwide or juat local repeaters? What will thw baufengs pick up? I mean how far?
Quote from: Blast on January 31, 2022, 12:26:02 PM
Quote from: NT2C on January 28, 2022, 07:45:40 PM
That "low-cost, simple, worst-case setup" that FBM mentioned? It doesn't exist. Not for most people's definition of "low-cost". Hell, ham radio is not an inexpensive hobby. The cheapest HF rig I ever bought was a $400 25-year-old Kenwood with a cracked circuit board. Next up from that was a $750 Icom mobile rig on its 6th owner. New HF? Bring your deepest purse when you go shopping, and don't forget you'll need antennas, coax, mounts, masts, maybe a tower, laptops and monitors in addition to the transceiver. "Low-cost ham radio" is a phrase right up there with "inexpensive off-shore racing" and "budget Formula 1 car"
I'm going to disagree with you. There are a number of low-cost, Chinese SW transceivers available nowadays. Older hams scoff at Baofeng and related radios, but I couldn't have become a licensed ham radio operator without my $30 handheld transceiver. With a homemade J-pole antenna I was hitting repeaters 30 miles away with the 5-watt, Baofeng UV-5R.
I have a 25-watt Radioddity DB25 (sub $100 when on sale) in my vehicles and it does great. Here's the writeup I did on it:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=111.0
Here's the "Ham Radio 101" link:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=112.0
If you watch the sales, a serviceable system can be acquired for under $50. That's cheap enough to stick in a Faraday cage, waiting the Day After.
-Blast
UFoZS is a
global entity these days, so any "emergency comms" solution for keeping us in touch with one another isn't going to be based on a 3.5W UHF/VHF HT. Yes, I know it claims to be anything from 4W up to 7W, depending on which seller's listing you see it in, the reality is it averages between 3.5 and 4 watts ERP, and has all kinds of spurious emissions. They're really pretty awful once you start deep diving into their actual performance. As to your Radioddity rig. I have no experience with one but again, it's VHF/UHF and limited to LoS (unless you're shooting for sats, and even then it's barely capable). HF is required if you want to make global contacts, and proper antennas and sufficient power, and all that comes with a hefty price tag.
About the only use I could see for VHF/UHF communications with this group is for members who live within 50 miles of each other to maintain contact when other comms are down. In that eventuality, there's a non-zero chance that the FCC might order everyone off the air (in the event the disruption is hostile action or civil unrest) and if not then whatever repeaters remain functional will be reserved for emergency traffic.
Quote from: Moab on January 31, 2022, 03:15:38 PM
Quote from: Blast on January 31, 2022, 12:26:02 PM
Quote from: NT2C on January 28, 2022, 07:45:40 PM
That "low-cost, simple, worst-case setup" that FBM mentioned? It doesn't exist. Not for most people's definition of "low-cost". Hell, ham radio is not an inexpensive hobby. The cheapest HF rig I ever bought was a $400 25-year-old Kenwood with a cracked circuit board. Next up from that was a $750 Icom mobile rig on its 6th owner. New HF? Bring your deepest purse when you go shopping, and don't forget you'll need antennas, coax, mounts, masts, maybe a tower, laptops and monitors in addition to the transceiver. "Low-cost ham radio" is a phrase right up there with "inexpensive off-shore racing" and "budget Formula 1 car"
I'm going to disagree with you. There are a number of low-cost, Chinese SW transceivers available nowadays. Older hams scoff at Baofeng and related radios, but I couldn't have become a licensed ham radio operator without my $30 handheld transceiver. With a homemade J-pole antenna I was hitting repeaters 30 miles away with the 5-watt, Baofeng UV-5R.
I have a 25-watt Radioddity DB25 (sub $100 when on sale) in my vehicles and it does great. Here's the writeup I did on it:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=111.0
Here's the "Ham Radio 101" link:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=112.0
If you watch the sales, a serviceable system can be acquired for under $50. That's cheap enough to stick in a Faraday cage, waiting the Day After.
-Blast
I was going to mention the baofengs too.
Out of curiosity will the base unit u mention pick up stuff worldwide or juat local repeaters? What will thw baufengs pick up? I mean how far?
They can tune a pretty wide range of the VHF/UHF spectrum, but nothing in any SW or HF band and their sensitivity is really crappy. A $100 multi-band SW receiver would be a better choice. Also, good reception almost demands a good antenna.
Quote from: Moab on January 31, 2022, 03:15:38 PM
Quote from: Blast on January 31, 2022, 12:26:02 PM
Quote from: NT2C on January 28, 2022, 07:45:40 PM
That "low-cost, simple, worst-case setup" that FBM mentioned? It doesn't exist. Not for most people's definition of "low-cost". Hell, ham radio is not an inexpensive hobby. The cheapest HF rig I ever bought was a $400 25-year-old Kenwood with a cracked circuit board. Next up from that was a $750 Icom mobile rig on its 6th owner. New HF? Bring your deepest purse when you go shopping, and don't forget you'll need antennas, coax, mounts, masts, maybe a tower, laptops and monitors in addition to the transceiver. "Low-cost ham radio" is a phrase right up there with "inexpensive off-shore racing" and "budget Formula 1 car"
I'm going to disagree with you. There are a number of low-cost, Chinese SW transceivers available nowadays. Older hams scoff at Baofeng and related radios, but I couldn't have become a licensed ham radio operator without my $30 handheld transceiver. With a homemade J-pole antenna I was hitting repeaters 30 miles away with the 5-watt, Baofeng UV-5R.
I have a 25-watt Radioddity DB25 (sub $100 when on sale) in my vehicles and it does great. Here's the writeup I did on it:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=111.0
Here's the "Ham Radio 101" link:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=112.0
If you watch the sales, a serviceable system can be acquired for under $50. That's cheap enough to stick in a Faraday cage, waiting the Day After.
-Blast
I was going to mention the baofengs too.
Out of curiosity will the base unit u mention pick up stuff worldwide or juat local repeaters? What will thw baufengs pick up? I mean how far?
If you are in Los Angeles, I would expect a Baofeng to receive up to 60 miles because of repeaters around the city. Especially if you go up 9 stories on top of an apartment. A good antenna will help a lot.
If traveling I would not expect as much performance because of the lack of repeaters and access to high rooftops, but I would not be surprised to find GMRS repeaters along a Northern route and as an emergency you could dial into those to seek help or listen what locals are saying during a disaster.
If in Oregon or Washington, there should be repeaters near large cities but I am not sure the mountains are the same and I would expect decreased performance. Especially in summer with more vegetation, if any is hampering access to repeaters. But again, get on a roof and get a decent antenna for best performance.
If in the mountains of the PNW and doing a bug out on foot I would expect your Baofeng to be limited to a mile or two during the summer. Probably 1 mile.
But before and after thunderstorms I would not be surprised if you suddenly got 40 miles of range for a few minutes.
If on the streets of LA I would not expect more than a mile of range with the Baofeng. And that would be with 440mhz. I would expect less with 140mhz. Under the right situation you could extend that quote a bit (talk down a highway that runs between buildings and you can get a tunnel effect which can help focus signal talk to people further away).
And while saying all that I have a friend in Oregon who easily gets 3 miles of range between Baofengs on a family farm and town, but that has been measured with being up in a barn talking to family in town.
And remember, there are some legal issues with using ham radios but in the event of a life/death emergency, the FCC allows for communication by any means necessary. Typically, 911 works best ;)
Quote from: woodsghost on February 01, 2022, 06:12:13 PM
Quote from: Moab on January 31, 2022, 03:15:38 PM
Quote from: Blast on January 31, 2022, 12:26:02 PM
Quote from: NT2C on January 28, 2022, 07:45:40 PM
That "low-cost, simple, worst-case setup" that FBM mentioned? It doesn't exist. Not for most people's definition of "low-cost". Hell, ham radio is not an inexpensive hobby. The cheapest HF rig I ever bought was a $400 25-year-old Kenwood with a cracked circuit board. Next up from that was a $750 Icom mobile rig on its 6th owner. New HF? Bring your deepest purse when you go shopping, and don't forget you'll need antennas, coax, mounts, masts, maybe a tower, laptops and monitors in addition to the transceiver. "Low-cost ham radio" is a phrase right up there with "inexpensive off-shore racing" and "budget Formula 1 car"
I'm going to disagree with you. There are a number of low-cost, Chinese SW transceivers available nowadays. Older hams scoff at Baofeng and related radios, but I couldn't have become a licensed ham radio operator without my $30 handheld transceiver. With a homemade J-pole antenna I was hitting repeaters 30 miles away with the 5-watt, Baofeng UV-5R.
I have a 25-watt Radioddity DB25 (sub $100 when on sale) in my vehicles and it does great. Here's the writeup I did on it:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=111.0
Here's the "Ham Radio 101" link:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=112.0
If you watch the sales, a serviceable system can be acquired for under $50. That's cheap enough to stick in a Faraday cage, waiting the Day After.
-Blast
I was going to mention the baofengs too.
Out of curiosity will the base unit u mention pick up stuff worldwide or juat local repeaters? What will thw baufengs pick up? I mean how far?
If you are in Los Angeles, I would expect a Baofeng to receive up to 60 miles because of repeaters around the city. Especially if you go up 9 stories on top of an apartment. A good antenna will help a lot.
If traveling I would not expect as much performance because of the lack of repeaters and access to high rooftops, but I would not be surprised to find GMRS repeaters along a Northern route and as an emergency you could dial into those to seek help or listen what locals are saying during a disaster.
If in Oregon or Washington, there should be repeaters near large cities but I am not sure the mountains are the same and I would expect decreased performance. Especially in summer with more vegetation, if any is hampering access to repeaters. But again, get on a roof and get a decent antenna for best performance.
If in the mountains of the PNW and doing a bug out on foot I would expect your Baofeng to be limited to a mile or two during the summer. Probably 1 mile.
But before and after thunderstorms I would not be surprised if you suddenly got 40 miles of range for a few minutes.
If on the streets of LA I would not expect more than a mile of range with the Baofeng. And that would be with 440mhz. I would expect less with 140mhz.
And while saying all that I have a friend who easily gets 3 miles of range between Baofengs on a family farm and town, but that has been measured with being up in a barn talking to family in town.
And remember, there are some legal issues with using ham radios but in the event of a life/death emergency, the FCC allows for communication by any means necessary. Typically, 911 works best ;)
Relying on repeaters in a catastrophe situation sounds a like a fail. How long will the repeater stations operate if power is out ?
Quote from: flybynight on February 01, 2022, 06:25:25 PM
Quote from: woodsghost on February 01, 2022, 06:12:13 PM
If you are in Los Angeles, I would expect a Baofeng to receive up to 60 miles because of repeaters around the city. Especially if you go up 9 stories on top of an apartment. A good antenna will help a lot.
If traveling I would not expect as much performance because of the lack of repeaters and access to high rooftops, but I would not be surprised to find GMRS repeaters along a Northern route and as an emergency you could dial into those to seek help or listen what locals are saying during a disaster.
If in Oregon or Washington, there should be repeaters near large cities but I am not sure the mountains are the same and I would expect decreased performance. Especially in summer with more vegetation, if any is hampering access to repeaters. But again, get on a roof and get a decent antenna for best performance.
If in the mountains of the PNW and doing a bug out on foot I would expect your Baofeng to be limited to a mile or two during the summer. Probably 1 mile.
But before and after thunderstorms I would not be surprised if you suddenly got 40 miles of range for a few minutes.
If on the streets of LA I would not expect more than a mile of range with the Baofeng. And that would be with 440mhz. I would expect less with 140mhz.
And while saying all that I have a friend who easily gets 3 miles of range between Baofengs on a family farm and town, but that has been measured with being up in a barn talking to family in town.
And remember, there are some legal issues with using ham radios but in the event of a life/death emergency, the FCC allows for communication by any means necessary. Typically, 911 works best ;)
Relying on repeaters in a catastrophe situation sounds a like a fail. How long will the repeater stations operate if power is out ?
Depends, but many repeaters are designed for emergency use so they have big batteries and solar power to keep them going long after a disaster. It doesn't work well if hit by a wild fire. But otherwise can last quite a while.
Quote from: flybynight on February 01, 2022, 06:25:25 PM
Quote from: woodsghost on February 01, 2022, 06:12:13 PM
Quote from: Moab on January 31, 2022, 03:15:38 PM
Quote from: Blast on January 31, 2022, 12:26:02 PM
Quote from: NT2C on January 28, 2022, 07:45:40 PM
That "low-cost, simple, worst-case setup" that FBM mentioned? It doesn't exist. Not for most people's definition of "low-cost". Hell, ham radio is not an inexpensive hobby. The cheapest HF rig I ever bought was a $400 25-year-old Kenwood with a cracked circuit board. Next up from that was a $750 Icom mobile rig on its 6th owner. New HF? Bring your deepest purse when you go shopping, and don't forget you'll need antennas, coax, mounts, masts, maybe a tower, laptops and monitors in addition to the transceiver. "Low-cost ham radio" is a phrase right up there with "inexpensive off-shore racing" and "budget Formula 1 car"
I'm going to disagree with you. There are a number of low-cost, Chinese SW transceivers available nowadays. Older hams scoff at Baofeng and related radios, but I couldn't have become a licensed ham radio operator without my $30 handheld transceiver. With a homemade J-pole antenna I was hitting repeaters 30 miles away with the 5-watt, Baofeng UV-5R.
I have a 25-watt Radioddity DB25 (sub $100 when on sale) in my vehicles and it does great. Here's the writeup I did on it:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=111.0
Here's the "Ham Radio 101" link:
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=112.0
If you watch the sales, a serviceable system can be acquired for under $50. That's cheap enough to stick in a Faraday cage, waiting the Day After.
-Blast
I was going to mention the baofengs too.
Out of curiosity will the base unit u mention pick up stuff worldwide or juat local repeaters? What will thw baufengs pick up? I mean how far?
If you are in Los Angeles, I would expect a Baofeng to receive up to 60 miles because of repeaters around the city. Especially if you go up 9 stories on top of an apartment. A good antenna will help a lot.
If traveling I would not expect as much performance because of the lack of repeaters and access to high rooftops, but I would not be surprised to find GMRS repeaters along a Northern route and as an emergency you could dial into those to seek help or listen what locals are saying during a disaster.
If in Oregon or Washington, there should be repeaters near large cities but I am not sure the mountains are the same and I would expect decreased performance. Especially in summer with more vegetation, if any is hampering access to repeaters. But again, get on a roof and get a decent antenna for best performance.
If in the mountains of the PNW and doing a bug out on foot I would expect your Baofeng to be limited to a mile or two during the summer. Probably 1 mile.
But before and after thunderstorms I would not be surprised if you suddenly got 40 miles of range for a few minutes.
If on the streets of LA I would not expect more than a mile of range with the Baofeng. And that would be with 440mhz. I would expect less with 140mhz.
And while saying all that I have a friend who easily gets 3 miles of range between Baofengs on a family farm and town, but that has been measured with being up in a barn talking to family in town.
And remember, there are some legal issues with using ham radios but in the event of a life/death emergency, the FCC allows for communication by any means necessary. Typically, 911 works best ;)
Relying on repeaters in a catastrophe situation sounds a like a fail. How long will the repeater stations operate if power is out ?
Depends on the individual repeater. Many are housed in the same facilities and use the same towers as local emergency services; others have their own backup power, be it generators for the short term or solar for longer. Every repeater is thus unique.
Quote from: woodsghost on February 01, 2022, 07:19:33 PM
Quote from: flybynight on February 01, 2022, 06:25:25 PM
Quote from: woodsghost on February 01, 2022, 06:12:13 PM
If you are in Los Angeles, I would expect a Baofeng to receive up to 60 miles because of repeaters around the city. Especially if you go up 9 stories on top of an apartment. A good antenna will help a lot.
If traveling I would not expect as much performance because of the lack of repeaters and access to high rooftops, but I would not be surprised to find GMRS repeaters along a Northern route and as an emergency you could dial into those to seek help or listen what locals are saying during a disaster.
If in Oregon or Washington, there should be repeaters near large cities but I am not sure the mountains are the same and I would expect decreased performance. Especially in summer with more vegetation, if any is hampering access to repeaters. But again, get on a roof and get a decent antenna for best performance.
If in the mountains of the PNW and doing a bug out on foot I would expect your Baofeng to be limited to a mile or two during the summer. Probably 1 mile.
But before and after thunderstorms I would not be surprised if you suddenly got 40 miles of range for a few minutes.
If on the streets of LA I would not expect more than a mile of range with the Baofeng. And that would be with 440mhz. I would expect less with 140mhz.
And while saying all that I have a friend who easily gets 3 miles of range between Baofengs on a family farm and town, but that has been measured with being up in a barn talking to family in town.
And remember, there are some legal issues with using ham radios but in the event of a life/death emergency, the FCC allows for communication by any means necessary. Typically, 911 works best ;)
Relying on repeaters in a catastrophe situation sounds a like a fail. How long will the repeater stations operate if power is out ?
Depends, but many repeaters are designed for emergency use so they have big batteries and solar power to keep them going long after a disaster. It doesn't work well if hit by a wild fire. But otherwise can last quite a while.
I'd also like to point out that many repeaters these days are digitally networked nationally or globally, or both.
This all presumes "normal" operation during "normal" times. When "normal" goes to hell in a handbasket then all that changes. Some of it goes away (internet connections and some digital), some gets scaled up or scaled back, and most of it gets restricted for "emergency traffic".
Getting back to what this thread is about, I can't see any way that keeping us in contact with each other would constitute cause to let us use a portion of those resources.
We are thus, back to square one in needing a stand alone solution.
Quote from: NT2C on February 01, 2022, 07:34:40 PM
Quote from: woodsghost on February 01, 2022, 07:19:33 PM
Quote from: flybynight on February 01, 2022, 06:25:25 PM
Quote from: woodsghost on February 01, 2022, 06:12:13 PM
If you are in Los Angeles, I would expect a Baofeng to receive up to 60 miles because of repeaters around the city. Especially if you go up 9 stories on top of an apartment. A good antenna will help a lot.
If traveling I would not expect as much performance because of the lack of repeaters and access to high rooftops, but I would not be surprised to find GMRS repeaters along a Northern route and as an emergency you could dial into those to seek help or listen what locals are saying during a disaster.
If in Oregon or Washington, there should be repeaters near large cities but I am not sure the mountains are the same and I would expect decreased performance. Especially in summer with more vegetation, if any is hampering access to repeaters. But again, get on a roof and get a decent antenna for best performance.
If in the mountains of the PNW and doing a bug out on foot I would expect your Baofeng to be limited to a mile or two during the summer. Probably 1 mile.
But before and after thunderstorms I would not be surprised if you suddenly got 40 miles of range for a few minutes.
If on the streets of LA I would not expect more than a mile of range with the Baofeng. And that would be with 440mhz. I would expect less with 140mhz.
And while saying all that I have a friend who easily gets 3 miles of range between Baofengs on a family farm and town, but that has been measured with being up in a barn talking to family in town.
And remember, there are some legal issues with using ham radios but in the event of a life/death emergency, the FCC allows for communication by any means necessary. Typically, 911 works best ;)
Relying on repeaters in a catastrophe situation sounds a like a fail. How long will the repeater stations operate if power is out ?
Depends, but many repeaters are designed for emergency use so they have big batteries and solar power to keep them going long after a disaster. It doesn't work well if hit by a wild fire. But otherwise can last quite a while.
I'd also like to point out that many repeaters these days are digitally networked nationally or globally, or both.
This all presumes "normal" operation during "normal" times. When "normal" goes to hell in a handbasket then all that changes. Some of it goes away (internet connections and some digital), some gets scaled up or scaled back, and most of it gets restricted for "emergency traffic".
Getting back to what this thread is about, I can't see any way that keeping us in contact with each other would constitute cause to let us use a portion of those resources.
We are thus, back to square one in needing a stand alone solution.
I think those with the capability could put together a net using HF. I think people living in local areas can get in touch with other like minded people.
The whole "gonna be restricted for emergency use" thing is tough.
But the reason we all exist and come here is to game out scenarios and responses.
And we haven't even talked about what we will do if ALIENS INVADE!!!! Which I'm not nearly prepared enough for.
Quote from: woodsghost on February 01, 2022, 07:55:12 PM
I think those with the capability could put together a net using HF. I think people living in local areas can get in touch with other like minded people.
The whole "gonna be restricted for emergency use" thing is tough.
But the reason we all exist and come here is to game out scenarios and responses.
And we haven't even talked about what we will do if ALIENS INVADE!!!! Which I'm not nearly prepared enough for.
Could a net be put together on HF? Yes, of course it could. Could an effective and capable one be put together at low cost? Depends on your definition of low cost. If it's "under $100", no, it cannot. If it's "under $500", possibly, with used equipment and homebrew antennas, and really favorable propagation. If I had to put together a SHTF "must communicate" station these days I think $5k would be a reasonable starting point, but only if I had terrain favorable to communication. Yes, I've made mobile contacts from my truck to Eastern Europe and Russia, as well and most of Africa and the Americas, but I can't say that I'd be able to consistently "hit" a particular station with that kind of setup, particularly if the other station had similar equipment.
This is a very interesting conversation none the less. I hope it continues. Thank you to all who are contributing. The information shared could easily take 100 times longer doing manual research.
Correct me if im wrong. But it sounds like getting as many numbers from fellow members as you can. And relying on text. In the event everything else went to hell. But even that seems very limited. Im racking my adhd brain trying to think of scenarios and types of comms that would be helpful. Ive threatened to get my ham license so many times. I am a private investigator by trade. And my use of scanners has been since way back. I would spend hours listening to ham. And many other types of conversation.
I wrote a short piece on scanners. But i wont bore you with it here. Ill post it to its own thread.
Quote from: NT2C on February 01, 2022, 09:16:43 PM
Quote from: woodsghost on February 01, 2022, 07:55:12 PM
I think those with the capability could put together a net using HF. I think people living in local areas can get in touch with other like minded people.
The whole "gonna be restricted for emergency use" thing is tough.
But the reason we all exist and come here is to game out scenarios and responses.
And we haven't even talked about what we will do if ALIENS INVADE!!!! Which I'm not nearly prepared enough for.
Could a net be put together on HF? Yes, of course it could. Could an effective and capable one be put together at low cost? Depends on your definition of low cost. If it's "under $100", no, it cannot. If it's "under $500", possibly, with used equipment and homebrew antennas, and really favorable propagation. If I had to put together a SHTF "must communicate" station these days I think $5k would be a reasonable starting point, but only if I had terrain favorable to communication. Yes, I've made mobile contacts from my truck to Eastern Europe and Russia, as well and most of Africa and the Americas, but I can't say that I'd be able to consistently "hit" a particular station with that kind of setup, particularly if the other station had similar equipment.
I applaud your knowledge. Ive soent enough time around radio communication as a private investigator to know what i dont know. And its alot. I have an adhd brain. And this type of knowledge requires a mathematician/engineer type.
Quote from: Moab on February 01, 2022, 09:41:17 PM
Quote from: NT2C on February 01, 2022, 09:16:43 PM
Quote from: woodsghost on February 01, 2022, 07:55:12 PM
I think those with the capability could put together a net using HF. I think people living in local areas can get in touch with other like minded people.
The whole "gonna be restricted for emergency use" thing is tough.
But the reason we all exist and come here is to game out scenarios and responses.
And we haven't even talked about what we will do if ALIENS INVADE!!!! Which I'm not nearly prepared enough for.
Could a net be put together on HF? Yes, of course it could. Could an effective and capable one be put together at low cost? Depends on your definition of low cost. If it's "under $100", no, it cannot. If it's "under $500", possibly, with used equipment and homebrew antennas, and really favorable propagation. If I had to put together a SHTF "must communicate" station these days I think $5k would be a reasonable starting point, but only if I had terrain favorable to communication. Yes, I've made mobile contacts from my truck to Eastern Europe and Russia, as well and most of Africa and the Americas, but I can't say that I'd be able to consistently "hit" a particular station with that kind of setup, particularly if the other station had similar equipment.
I applaud your knowledge. Ive soent enough time around radio communication as a private investigator to know what i dont know. And its alot. I have an adhd brain. And this type of knowledge requires a mathematician/engineer type.
I started to respond to this by saying, "And I'm neither", but had to stop myself because, while I don't consider myself to be either, I do have a degree in electrical engineering theory, and it's rare that I ever need a calculator. I guess I do fit the type.
You really should get that ham license and get some practical experience to go along with your listening experience. At the very least it gives you a Federal license and plausible reason for radio equipment in your vehicle that some jurisdictions might frown upon otherwise (such as scanners, and it exempts you from some "hands-free device" laws).
Quote from: NT2C on February 01, 2022, 09:16:43 PM
Quote from: woodsghost on February 01, 2022, 07:55:12 PM
I think those with the capability could put together a net using HF. I think people living in local areas can get in touch with other like minded people.
The whole "gonna be restricted for emergency use" thing is tough.
But the reason we all exist and come here is to game out scenarios and responses.
And we haven't even talked about what we will do if ALIENS INVADE!!!! Which I'm not nearly prepared enough for.
Could a net be put together on HF? Yes, of course it could. Could an effective and capable one be put together at low cost? Depends on your definition of low cost. If it's "under $100", no, it cannot. If it's "under $500", possibly, with used equipment and homebrew antennas, and really favorable propagation. If I had to put together a SHTF "must communicate" station these days I think $5k would be a reasonable starting point, but only if I had terrain favorable to communication. Yes, I've made mobile contacts from my truck to Eastern Europe and Russia, as well and most of Africa and the Americas, but I can't say that I'd be able to consistently "hit" a particular station with that kind of setup, particularly if the other station had similar equipment.
After being on my survival wishlist for a couple decades I finally decided to 'dive in' to HF in 2020 using Covid Cash. $1,300 later and I barely got my feet wet :gonk:
If I should ever find myself with 5-10k of spare cash the board has my solemn pledge that I'll set up a LLC and apply for a business/industrial FCC license with some freqs in the 20-160m bands. Something similar to Bran Ferren's WPQJ562 (https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=1827497) license, and you'll all be welcome to use it. Until then however, all I could afford was to sign up at moab's backup forum :)
My HF deep dive in 2021 was $450-$500. But the flip side is I'm a little limited in capability compared to many $900 HF rigs and I am building my own gear. Which is an educational hurdle. So consider if one has more time or more money. I don't have a ton of either but I have more time than money so "home brew" it is!
Rather than quote the specific posters, I'm going to address concerns and questions about low-power, local Ham radio systems and attempt to show why they are still valuable.
1. You can't talk around the world. - True, with your basic Baofeng UV-5R handheld radio with stock antenna you will only have a talking range of range of 5-15 miles and a listening range of maybe 30 miles, depending on where you are standing and the terrain. However, in a SHTF situation, I'm going to be MUCH more interested in local news from my local organization. If you want to hear stuff from around the world add a shortwave receiver. I really love my $48 Tecsun PL-660 receiver for hearing what's going on in the world: https://amzn.to/35z13lU
2. Repeaters only last while they have power. - Most repeater systems are set up by amateur radio clubs for use during disasters and have backup energy sources, mostly solar. At least this is the case here in Texas and I suspect it is the same in other disaster-prone areas (hurricanes, earthquakes). At the very least, most have several days' worth of battery backups to maintain communication.
3. The government will kick everyone off the air. - When hurricane Ike hit Houston, the gov took over all cell phone towers, strictly for their use and blocked civilian use. They also took over landline phones. Saying it's better to just call people than try setting up a local ham organization suggests a polyannic optimism of what will be allowed.
4a. Cheap Baofeng radios have limited range. - As mentioned above, with their stock antenna they can only go 5-15 miles. If you are in a rural area with limited repeaters then this may seem pointless. That being said, that may be far enough to reach neighbors (who you should convince to by UFZS members!) to keep each other abreast of any important information. Also, it is very likely that any semi-organized group of raiders is using Baofengs to talk to each other. These radios have the ability to scan through their frequency, perhaps (okay polyannic optimism) to catch a signal from the raiders.
4b. Cheap Baofeng radios have limited range. - In more suburban and urban locations, especially those prone to disasters, a large network of reachable repeaters will likely be available. Check out www.repeaterbook.com to see what might be around you. Some of these repeaters can be connected to other repeaters in other states and even other countries, allowing conversation with people far away. At lunch I listen to the "Alaskan Morning Net" which is linked to repeaters across Alaska, Texas, Scotland, and other places. Yes, this does require the internet to be up. So be it.
4c. Cheap Baofeng radios have limited range. - Baofengs and most other ham radios have replaceable antennas. This allows you to either purchase better antennas or make your own. The antenna can be attached to the radio via a long cable so the antenna can be mounted on the roof, in a tree, hanging from a balloon, etc... I made "J-Pole" antennas from old, flat analog tv antenna wire but they can also be made from copper tubing. https://www.kaccradio.com/diy-j-pole-antenna-for-2-440/
The higher and better tuned the antenna, the farther your range will be.
-Blast
Rather than repeat, I'll also go by the numbers:
1,2,3,4,5: The thread isn't about local comms because UFoZS is not just a local organization. The thread is about keeping that organization in touch with each other, and that means at least national if not global comms.
For $199 plus a monthly service fee on can get the ZOLEO satellite personal locator beacon. The neat thing about this is it allows you to send text messages via satellite pretty much to any cell phone in the world.
https://amzn.to/3roU87z
Get the text numbers of people you want to reach internationally before TSHTF, add them to your phone, connect to the ZOLEO and pre$to, you can text them and they can text you back even if they have cell service but you don't.
You can also just send GPS coordinates. Set up a cheat sheet where sending from a specific set of GPS coordinates means a specific message. Or go full "The Martian" and set up a GPS coordinate "alphabet" to let your feet do the talking. :)
-Blast
If you go through the relatively simple effort of getting the lowest ham radio license, search around for a nearby ham club. There will be people in it who have spent thousands of dollars on equipment and antennas, able to reach around the world. Make friends with them and then if a situation occurs, they may be willing to help get messages around the world, even delivered to specific, non-ham people. Your 3-watt handheld just need to reach Germany from Idaho. You just need to reach a ham with better equipment than you.
Also, being part of a club put you in contact with the wonderful world of used equipment, especially if you aren't a jerk. Being friendly, respectful, and helpful to older hams is appreciated by most of them.
-Blast
Ok so something else I remembered. Old rotary phones used to still be functional when power went down as they do not need to be plugged into anything but the phone line. Is this still workable in the fiber optic cable age ?
(https://buybest4u.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/irisvo-retro-rotary-phones-for-landline-corded-phone-old-fashioned-rotary-1024x958.jpg)
Quote from: flybynight on February 02, 2022, 05:01:45 PM
Ok so something else I remembered. Old rotary phones used to still be functional when power went down as they do not need to be plugged into anything but the phone line. Is this still workable in the fiber optic cable age ?
(https://buybest4u.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/irisvo-retro-rotary-phones-for-landline-corded-phone-old-fashioned-rotary-1024x958.jpg)
I remember this as well. As long as you have a hardwired phone line i dont see why it wouldnt. Most folks with dsl have one iirc. But if your like me and only have fiber optic. Probably not.
Quote from: Moab on February 02, 2022, 09:15:06 PM
Quote from: flybynight on February 02, 2022, 05:01:45 PM
Ok so something else I remembered. Old rotary phones used to still be functional when power went down as they do not need to be plugged into anything but the phone line. Is this still workable in the fiber optic cable age ?
(https://buybest4u.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/irisvo-retro-rotary-phones-for-landline-corded-phone-old-fashioned-rotary-1024x958.jpg)
I remember this as well. As long as you have a hardwired phone line i dont see why it wouldnt. Most folks with dsl have one iirc. But if your like me and only have fiber optic. Probably not.
Stop it, you guys are making me feel like my current tech is from the Dark Ages :smiley_crocodile:
We have only the old standard 2-wire tip/ring telephone service that doesn't require any local power to function. No rotary dial, but have a hard-wired touch tone phone in the garage and another in the preps. The one stored away has speed dial memory and caller ID that needs external power, but it doesn't require it to make a call.
My very first job that didn't involve working for my dad was as an installer for NY Telephone. Let me just say that anything that takes out power for a large area for longer than about 72 hours is also going to take out all telephone service, even "old-fashioned" hardlines, if they aren't already out due to those self-same lines being physically broken. Like it or not, phone systems of any type require power. During normal times that power is supplied by utilities, and by backup generators and banks of batteries when utility power is out. Back in the days of strictly copper wiring the Central Office (CO) supplied the signal to your phone, with exchanges and switching frames supplying the actual power and local routing. You still had phone service when the lights went out because of those generators and batteries, but they don't have more than about a 3-day capacity or didn't back then. Things are different now with fiber but the requirements for power haven't changed much.
Quote from: Blast on February 02, 2022, 04:54:32 PM
If you go through the relatively simple effort of getting the lowest ham radio license, search around for a nearby ham club. There will be people in it who have spent thousands of dollars on equipment and antennas, able to reach around the world. Make friends with them and then if a situation occurs, they may be willing to help get messages around the world, even delivered to specific, non-ham people. Your 3-watt handheld just need to reach Germany from Idaho. You just need to reach a ham with better equipment than you.
Also, being part of a club put you in contact with the wonderful world of used equipment, especially if you aren't a jerk. Being friendly, respectful, and helpful to older hams is appreciated by most of them.
-Blast
This is indeed an option, especially if any of your local ham buddies participate in NTS (National Traffic System), and especially if you have access to the club station. I would reiterate though that
during an emergency getting traffic passed to keep us all in touch is likely to be a non-starter. I'd also suggest that getting your general ticket instead of merely a tech ticket is the better way to go. Your friend/club probably won't mind passing one or two messages for you but more than that and they'll be inclined to hand you the mic and let you guest operate. If you have your general they don't need to hang out and be the control operator.
Quote from: Crosscut on February 03, 2022, 04:57:17 AM
Quote from: Moab on February 02, 2022, 09:15:06 PM
Quote from: flybynight on February 02, 2022, 05:01:45 PM
Ok so something else I remembered. Old rotary phones used to still be functional when power went down as they do not need to be plugged into anything but the phone line. Is this still workable in the fiber optic cable age ?
(https://buybest4u.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/irisvo-retro-rotary-phones-for-landline-corded-phone-old-fashioned-rotary-1024x958.jpg)
I remember this as well. As long as you have a hardwired phone line i dont see why it wouldnt. Most folks with dsl have one iirc. But if your like me and only have fiber optic. Probably not.
Stop it, you guys are making me feel like my current tech is from the Dark Ages :smiley_crocodile:
We have only the old standard 2-wire tip/ring telephone service that doesn't require any local power to function. No rotary dial, but have a hard-wired touch tone phone in the garage and another in the preps. The one stored away has speed dial memory and caller ID that needs external power, but it doesn't require it to make a call.
these phones run on a separate power system from your electricity. when the power goes out so does the power to these phone systems but they have a system network of battery backups that will usually work for 3-4 days. After that they will go down to.
And yes this is a wired system that requires a monthly deal with your phone provider. We called it a land line.
the phone in the photo, rotary, is a pulse, and the button phones are tone. usually your local phone network land line provider will allow one or the other but not both on the network.
My house is still wired for land lines. And i can convert that to work with my fiber optic thru my fiber provider but that costs almost as much as a basic land line per month and if the internet goes down or the power goes out I lose the line because it work like a standard VOIP but connecting to the house's input for the phones.
?
Quote from: Moab on February 03, 2022, 05:20:16 PM
Quote from: NapalmMan67 on February 03, 2022, 03:18:14 PM
?
Are u joking? Or is that serious? What are they?
I'm going to assume someone took the idea of "2 cans and a string" and put radio transceivers and batteries and antennas in there so he could have the "upgraded" 2 cans and a string.
Pretty fun!
Quote from: NT2C on February 03, 2022, 06:57:10 AM
Quote from: Blast on February 02, 2022, 04:54:32 PM
If you go through the relatively simple effort of getting the lowest ham radio license, search around for a nearby ham club. There will be people in it who have spent thousands of dollars on equipment and antennas, able to reach around the world. Make friends with them and then if a situation occurs, they may be willing to help get messages around the world, even delivered to specific, non-ham people. Your 3-watt handheld just need to reach Germany from Idaho. You just need to reach a ham with better equipment than you.
Also, being part of a club put you in contact with the wonderful world of used equipment, especially if you aren't a jerk. Being friendly, respectful, and helpful to older hams is appreciated by most of them.
-Blast
This is indeed an option, especially if any of your local ham buddies participate in NTS (National Traffic System), and especially if you have access to the club station. I would reiterate though that during an emergency getting traffic passed to keep us all in touch is likely to be a non-starter. I'd also suggest that getting your general ticket instead of merely a tech ticket is the better way to go. Your friend/club probably won't mind passing one or two messages for you but more than that and they'll be inclined to hand you the mic and let you guest operate. If you have your general they don't need to hang out and be the control operator.
Just thinking out loud, but maybe start by identifying other members that are nearby geographically and explore what grid down communication methods might be possible with them individually. I'd doubt many members are within LoS of each other for vhf/uhf simplex comms, but maybe a few are in 10m/CB range or can each hit the same (non-linked) repeater which is cheaper and easier than everyone having an all-mode HF transceiver. At first it might just be a few islanded networks with a couple members in each, but it only requires one of those members to be able to reach a member in a different network (by any mode or means) to extend the range/expand the network. Lengthy messages to those outside your own network might not be possible, but members acting as a hub between networks might pass a short sitrep for members in their local area, and pass on the sitreps received from the other networks within their own.
Those desiring to could use the maidenhead grid map to describe where they are and/or what grids they might be able to reach.
https://qrznow.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/grid_square_map_1.jpg
http://sam-europe.de/graphics/grid/world.png
In the event of a grid down, SHTF event my backup comms plans includes WGSO @ 990 on the AM dial.
I use it for business announcements as needed.
If it can transmit; it will transmit.
It will stay on the air as long and return as often as possible to the air.
It is also here on a web pod cast and will likewise stay active as long as possible.
https://tunein.com/radio/WGSO-990-s29157/
It is a local "rinky dink" AM station so it's broadcasts are limited to my AO but that is what fits into the plan and why it was selected.
Obviously in an EMP event it is likely that the transmitter will be damaged and without power the generator will run only as long as fuel is available.
Quote from: Moab on February 03, 2022, 05:20:16 PM
Quote from: NapalmMan67 on February 03, 2022, 03:18:14 PM
?
Are u joking? Or is that serious? What are they?
I was joking posting it. But yeah, they are a thing. Woodsghost nailed it. Pretty sure it's more of a gag/toy than reliable comms.
https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Make-a-Wireless-Tin-Can-Telephone-Arduino-W/
.
Quote from: Raptor on February 04, 2022, 11:43:38 AM
In the event of a grid down, SHTF event my backup comms plans includes WGSO @ 990 on the AM dial.
I use it for business announcements as needed.
If it can transmit; it will transmit.
It will stay on the air as long and return as often as possible to the air.
It is also here on a web pod cast and will likewise stay active as long as possible.
https://tunein.com/radio/WGSO-990-s29157/
It is a local "rinky dink" AM station so it's broadcasts are limited to my AO but that is what fits into the plan and why it was selected.
Obviously in an EMP event it is likely that the transmitter will be damaged and without power the generator will run only as long as fuel is available.
Raptor sending the AM signals in the PAW. What a Legend. :greenguy:
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.fanpop.com%2Fimages%2Fimage_uploads%2FI-Am-Legend-i-am-legend-545346_700_298.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
There's always the abandoned radio station strategy. If you can 'Comet' to the daily broadcast schedule. :smiley_bril:
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi2.wp.com%2Fwww.midnightonly.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F09%2Fnight-of-the-comet-10.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
Quote from: MacWa77ace on February 04, 2022, 03:57:16 PM
There's always the abandoned radio station strategy. If you can 'Comet' to the daily broadcast schedule. :smiley_bril:
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi2.wp.com%2Fwww.midnightonly.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F09%2Fnight-of-the-comet-10.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
No you didn't!!
Lmao!
Quote from: MacWa77ace on February 04, 2022, 03:53:23 PM
Quote from: Raptor on February 04, 2022, 11:43:38 AM
In the event of a grid down, SHTF event my backup comms plans includes WGSO @ 990 on the AM dial.
I use it for business announcements as needed.
If it can transmit; it will transmit.
It will stay on the air as long and return as often as possible to the air.
It is also here on a web pod cast and will likewise stay active as long as possible.
https://tunein.com/radio/WGSO-990-s29157/
It is a local "rinky dink" AM station so it's broadcasts are limited to my AO but that is what fits into the plan and why it was selected.
Obviously in an EMP event it is likely that the transmitter will be damaged and without power the generator will run only as long as fuel is available.
Raptor sending the AM signals in the PAW. What a Legend. :greenguy:
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.fanpop.com%2Fimages%2Fimage_uploads%2FI-Am-Legend-i-am-legend-545346_700_298.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
Can I call in song requests?
Quote from: flybynight on February 04, 2022, 04:19:18 PM
Quote from: MacWa77ace on February 04, 2022, 03:53:23 PM
Quote from: Raptor on February 04, 2022, 11:43:38 AM
In the event of a grid down, SHTF event my backup comms plans includes WGSO @ 990 on the AM dial.
I use it for business announcements as needed.
If it can transmit; it will transmit.
It will stay on the air as long and return as often as possible to the air.
It is also here on a web pod cast and will likewise stay active as long as possible.
https://tunein.com/radio/WGSO-990-s29157/ (https://tunein.com/radio/WGSO-990-s29157/)
It is a local "rinky dink" AM station so it's broadcasts are limited to my AO but that is what fits into the plan and why it was selected.
Obviously in an EMP event it is likely that the transmitter will be damaged and without power the generator will run only as long as fuel is available.
Raptor sending the AM signals in the PAW. What a Legend. :greenguy:
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.fanpop.com%2Fimages%2Fimage_uploads%2FI-Am-Legend-i-am-legend-545346_700_298.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
Can I call in song requests?
I seem to recall a post apocolyptic film or tv show yh a dj in it.
Yes several of the shows have call in shows. So call in and make your requests.
I have paid adverts on some of the popular shows because of the market segment that listens to the shows.
No reason in a SHTF situation that would change. 990 on the AM dial.
Email list server / email discussion group? www.freelists.org is one free option. Someone trusted creates the group and acts as the list owner, others join providing only their email address and the list owner approves them, then anyone can send email to the group email address which gets forwarded (bcc) to all members. Only the list owner (and the listserv provider) knows the email addresses of the members.
Note that:
All content you send to a FreeLists list is public: FreeLists archives and makes public the content of the lists it hosts for the public good. Do not send sensitive or private information to a FreeLists list. (https://www.freelists.org/privacy.html)
But if more privacy amongst ourselves is desired we could use PGP with a shared private key, or even compress our messages (7-zip, IZarc, etc) with a shared password and send the encrypted compressed file as an attachment to the group.
I'm just saying, a Facebook group would be a fun addition *shrug*