Undead Forums of ZS

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/03/world/asia/china-spy-balloon.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/03/world/asia/china-spy-balloon.html)

On the one hand, I'm sure the Chinese have far better and more discrete methods of spying on the US mainland (ie satellites).  On the other hand, apparently the Chinese have a bit of a history of using these and in any event, I can't think of a much better way to gauge the our military's ability to detect and track vehicles entering US airspace.  Or, you know, any other airspace we might happen to wish to monitor <ahem ... cough! ... Taiwan>.  And if the exercise involves gathering a bit of useful intelligence, well, that's just icing on the cake.

UFoZS membership is a geographically diverse community and this thing can't hang out over Montana forever.  I would love to see members reporting sightings over the next several days.  And if any of us have a decent telephoto lens equipped camera and a sturdy tripod, it would be so cool to post pictures taken by eagle eyed UFoZS members. 

Just sayin'.

(https://i.insider.com/63dcea750a08ae0018a69ce3?width=700)

Note that the map below assumes the balloon is incapable of independent maneuvering.  I believe it's been established that it can, in fact be controlled somewhat (presumably by ascending/descending to take advantage of desired wind currents).

(https://emfservices.azureedge.net/news-variants/41942/41942.lg.png) 

I'm wondering what's stopping someone with a precision long range rifle from taking a shot at this thing and knocking it down.

I'd be interested to see where this thing ends up, and what we actually learn about it. 

As usual, though, I'm annoyed by the "ready, fire, aim" coverage. Cue the "What We Know (And Don't Know) about X," headlines. 

First we were unaware, then we had a chance to take it down and didn't, then we decided it wasn't a threat, then the DOD was tracking it but wouldn't make the location public, and then we decided that debris from a takedown might harm people on the ground.

My brother in North Carolina texted me 10 seconds ago and said police in Gastonia, NC are telling people not to try to shoot it down. Seriously.

I know, I know, satellites fly over us every day, and the folks who fly them aren't doing so to give us weather on the 10s. But this is a balloon. In our airspace. You're telling me the same folks who intercept Tu 95 Bears so often that it doesn't make the news anymore don't have a plan for a balloon?

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 03, 2023, 09:10:51 PMI'm wondering what's stopping someone with a precision long range rifle from taking a shot at this thing and knocking it down.

80,000 - 120,000 ft altitude. 

Quote from: EBuff75 on February 03, 2023, 09:16:42 PM

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 03, 2023, 09:10:51 PMI'm wondering what's stopping someone with a precision long range rifle from taking a shot at this thing and knocking it down.

80,000 - 120,000 ft altitude. 

Well if the Australian Navy can try shooting down the planet Venus (https://factrepublic.com/facts/22590) I suppose we could try our luck with this balloon.  :smiley_crocodile:

Quote from: EBuff75 on February 03, 2023, 09:16:42 PM

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 03, 2023, 09:10:51 PMI'm wondering what's stopping someone with a precision long range rifle from taking a shot at this thing and knocking it down.

80,000 - 120,000 ft altitude. 

Yeah, I'd say that's a good bit further than most precision long range rifles can shoot.

It's not that we don't have the capability to shoot it down, it's that it poses a greater threat in freefall than it does just wandering about our airspace.  It's not likely to see anything of significance that its operators can't already find on Google Maps/Google Earth if it even has any significant capabilities at all.  Once it gets hit, though, it would be difficult to control and there is a risk of injury and/or damage to individuals and structures on the ground. 

If the military wants to bring it down to get a better look at it, their best option is probably to wait until it goes out to sea and shoot it down and retrieve it there.  It's too low a threat to risk it otherwise.

Quote from: EBuff75 on February 03, 2023, 09:16:42 PM

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 03, 2023, 09:10:51 PMI'm wondering what's stopping someone with a precision long range rifle from taking a shot at this thing and knocking it down.

80,000 - 120,000 ft altitude. 

That balloon passed within 40 miles of where I live here in Missouri, a buddy I work with at the railroad was taking pictures of it over his house and posting them to Facebook. I assumed that the "lost balloon" was just an excuse to gather some sort of data, test our responses, or the lack there of, to an "accidental" incursion form a foreign power.

Just a thought, but isn't 80,000 - 120,000 ft optimal height for an EMP attack?

Quote from: Brekar on February 03, 2023, 09:54:40 PMJust a thought, but isn't 80,000 - 120,000 ft optimal height for an EMP attack?

Hmmmm.  Makes you wonder exactly what is attached to the balloon that could produce an EMP.  Perhaps that's why the military is so reluctant to shoot it down ...

just going to park this here.......without comment
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=248028#discuss (https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=248028#discuss)

Maybe I'm just thinking worst case scenarios here. What if it was " dirty" like chemicals or bio , float over a reservoir drop tiny payload into drinking water. Convert everyone/thing into "zombies". Ain't China where the rona came from.


 

Quote from: Rednex on February 04, 2023, 07:12:20 AMMaybe I'm just thinking worst case scenarios here. What if it was " dirty" like chemicals or bio , float over a reservoir drop tiny payload into drinking water. Convert everyone/thing into "zombies". Ain't China where the rona came from.


 

Our government and military have eyes on it.  I'm sure they've at least considered that possibility in their determination how to handle it.

There's clearly more to this story than the military is letting on.  The "someone might get injured from falling debris" explanation just doesn't hold water.  They can track this accurately and could shoot it down over a sparsely populated area.  They don't need to destroy it, just perforate the balloon material and it'll come down well short of terminal velocity.  I'm thinking a directed energy weapon of some kind would do the job nicely. 

Either they're developing a plan to bring it down intact over land, or they have some intelligence indicating that this thing has some kind of dangerous cargo.  In which case they'll shoot it out of the sky over water.

If the US truly believes this balloon is being used by the Chinese to spy, then recovering it relatively intact is clearly a priority.  It would not only be a intelligence bonanza, it would be tangible proof that this is an espionage apparatus operating in violation of international law.  Parading that proof in front of the Chinese, and especially other countries, would give the US maximum diplomatic leverage in whatever plans we have for dealing with China on the world stage.

I do not for a second believe we're just going to let this thing drift away after it crosses the continent.  I like Anianna's theory: they're waiting for it to get over the Atlantic before shooting it down and recovering it.

Anianna's theory does make a lot of sense.

I don't know how sparsely populated Montana is, but shooting the balloon down over water makes more sense than downing it over land.

Well, we just took it out. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64524105 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64524105)

When do we start the USA! USA! USA! chant?

Quote from: echo83 on February 04, 2023, 02:13:50 PMWell, we just took it out.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64524105 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64524105)

When do we start the USA! USA! USA! chant?

Anianna wins the toaster oven!   :smiley_clap:

Quote from: Anianna on February 04, 2023, 12:43:02 PMOur government and military have eyes on it.  I'm sure they've at least considered that possibility in their determination how to handle it.

Is that supposed to be a comforting and reassuring thought?  Because...  :panic:

Quote from: NT2C on February 04, 2023, 02:28:01 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 04, 2023, 12:43:02 PMOur government and military have eyes on it.  I'm sure they've at least considered that possibility in their determination how to handle it.

Is that supposed to be a comforting and reassuring thought?  Because...  :panic:

I think most people would have more faith in a wet fart than they would the Feds.

Quote from: NT2C on February 04, 2023, 02:28:01 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 04, 2023, 12:43:02 PMOur government and military have eyes on it.  I'm sure they've at least considered that possibility in their determination how to handle it.

Is that supposed to be a comforting and reassuring thought?  Because...  :panic:

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 04, 2023, 02:34:33 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 04, 2023, 02:28:01 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 04, 2023, 12:43:02 PMOur government and military have eyes on it.  I'm sure they've at least considered that possibility in their determination how to handle it.

Is that supposed to be a comforting and reassuring thought?  Because...  :panic:

I think most people would have more faith in a wet fart than they would the Feds.

Guys, I'm not saying they're guaranteed to make the best decision about it, just that they at least thought about it before they made the decision.  😂

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 04, 2023, 02:16:07 PM

Quote from: echo83 on February 04, 2023, 02:13:50 PMWell, we just took it out.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64524105 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64524105)

When do we start the USA! USA! USA! chant?

Anianna wins the toaster oven!  :smiley_clap:

Whoohoo!

Yeah my 1st few thoughts were either it's a dry run for a new pandemic that "starts" in the USA (i.e. zombies, new version of avian flu etc), or dry run for some sort of cyber attack of a trial run for an EMP. I noticed they shot it down then mentioned in nearly the same breath that there's another balloon over Latin America. (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pentagon-another-chinese-spy-balloon-traveling-over-latin-america)

Quote from: Anianna on February 04, 2023, 03:10:41 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 04, 2023, 02:28:01 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 04, 2023, 12:43:02 PMOur government and military have eyes on it.  I'm sure they've at least considered that possibility in their determination how to handle it.

Is that supposed to be a comforting and reassuring thought?  Because...  :panic:

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 04, 2023, 02:34:33 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 04, 2023, 02:28:01 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 04, 2023, 12:43:02 PMOur government and military have eyes on it.  I'm sure they've at least considered that possibility in their determination how to handle it.

Is that supposed to be a comforting and reassuring thought?  Because...  :panic:

I think most people would have more faith in a wet fart than they would the Feds.

Guys, I'm not saying they're guaranteed to make the best decision about it, just that they at least thought about it before they made the decision.  😂

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 04, 2023, 02:16:07 PM

Quote from: echo83 on February 04, 2023, 02:13:50 PMWell, we just took it out.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64524105 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64524105)

When do we start the USA! USA! USA! chant?

Anianna wins the toaster oven!  :smiley_clap:

Whoohoo!

One official UFoZS Toaster Oven (in the official UFoZS shade of teal) coming right up... just as soon as the chimps in the detention area finish building it, so 2-3 weeks.

WAIT... Can you hear that?  Sounds like the Chinese laughing at us and the federal response to their attack dry run test flight

Quote from: flybynight on February 04, 2023, 08:35:53 PMWAIT... Can you hear that?  Sounds like the Chinese laughing at us and the federal response to their attack dry run test flight

Man, the Chinese and the rest of the world have laughing at us for a long time before this.

This is just a regular Saturday for them.

Know what they aren't laughing at though...?

How?

What did we use to shoot it down?  Yes, the Pentagon says we took it down with an AIM-9X missle fired from an F-22 at 58,000 feet. 

Except, that balloon hadn't been below 80,000 feet across the entire country, and at times was up to 120,000 ft.  The operational ceiling of an F-22 is 50,000 feet.  The current Block III AIM-9X is a passive infrared homing missile.  It was specifically developed to be passive infrared and not radar or digital guided because radar-guided AAMRAM missiles were being spoofed by active jammers and this was the Navy's way around that.

So, what did we shoot this no heat source high-flying balloon down with?  Because I don't think it was an F-22 using an AIM-9X, especially right in the operational area of the  Navy's Pax River Air Station and Dahlgren Naval Surface Warfare Center.  You know, the two places in the country that are currently doing operational testing of all the cool new Navy toys like high-power lasers (surface ship and aircraft mounted) and ship-mounted electromagnetic rail guns with 120+ mile ranges.

So, what did we use on this big, fat, cold, slow-moving target that should have been above the max ceiling of the F-22?

The next question would be is any of the balloon recoverable or is it now just part of an unintentional artificial reef in the Atlantic ocean?

I'm hearing chatter that the Feds shot the Chinese balloon down and that the area it splashed down in is too deep for a recovery effort.

Which sounds to me like code for "We've already got it, we're going over any data that was salvageable and we're not saying anything about it until we've finished the investigation."

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 05, 2023, 11:33:39 AMThe next question would be is any of the balloon recoverable or is it now just part of an unintentional artificial reef in the Atlantic ocean?

I'm hearing chatter that the Feds shot the Chinese balloon down and that the area it splashed down in is too deep for a recovery effort.

Which sounds to me like code for "We've already got it, we're going over any data that was salvageable and we're not saying anything about it until we've finished the investigation."

You mean that area that's used as a training area for SEAL teams 2 and 8 which are both based in Little Creek, VA, just up the coast?  Yep, sure must have sunk too deep.  It's gone.  (wink wink)

Quote from: NT2C on February 05, 2023, 11:48:19 AM

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 05, 2023, 11:33:39 AMThe next question would be is any of the balloon recoverable or is it now just part of an unintentional artificial reef in the Atlantic ocean?

I'm hearing chatter that the Feds shot the Chinese balloon down and that the area it splashed down in is too deep for a recovery effort.

Which sounds to me like code for "We've already got it, we're going over any data that was salvageable and we're not saying anything about it until we've finished the investigation."

You mean that area that's used as a training area for SEAL teams 2 and 8 which are both based in Little Creek, VA, just up the coast?  Yep, sure must have sunk too deep.  It's gone.  (wink wink)

I totally forgot the SEALs have a training area in VA.

Which is unusual for me considering I'm a fan of Richard Marcinko's stuff and he mentions Little Creek often in his books.

2nd Chinese surveillance balloon spotted over South America,
https://6abc.com/second-chinese-spy-balloon-latin-america-surveillance-china/12768114/

Saw this online and it made me chuckle:
(https://img.ifunny.co/images/754fbaba19dc01fceb9e70227fe0a68d030f8c6ba9d6bf317962a5d5e2204330_1.webp)

Breaking: US shoots down another "high altitude" object, this time over Alaskan airspace.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/10/politics/biden-alaska-military-down/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/10/politics/biden-alaska-military-down/index.html)

If this is another Chinese spy balloon (and I should emphasize we don't  know much at this point), one has to marvel at China's stupidity. Even if these things really are state of the art surveillance devices, whatever intelligence they're giving the Chinese at this particular point in time can't be worth it. Spy on us later, but right now they need to ratchet down the tension before somebody does something stupid.

I was reading that this one is only the size of a car, so maybe this one was a drone of some sort???

The Iranian regime is allegedly selling tens of thousands of drones to China.  Maybe they're giving one a test drive.

Aaaaand, another one shot down today.  This one made it into Canada:  https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/11/politics/norad-additional-object-northern-canada/index.html

Acknowledging for a moment that we don't actually know at this point if all three (or even any) of these objects are of Chinese origin, it does lend credence to a theory my coworker had: there could be a veritable parade of these things slowly making their way across the Pacific.  All launched before the first balloon became an international incident.  It's not like the Chinese or whoever launched these things can just recall them once they're on their way.

I suggested to the coworker that the Chinese could send a command to these things to vent their gas envelopes and bring them down in international waters, rather than further risk escalation.  But everything is just conjecture at this point.

My other fear is a bunch of copycats with access to surplus weather balloons will launch them in hopes of getting their 15 minutes of fame.  With AMRAAMs costing over a $1M a pop, this could get really expensive.

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 11, 2023, 04:41:32 PMMy other fear is a bunch of copycats with access to surplus weather balloons will launch them in hopes of getting their 15 minutes of fame.  With AMRAAMs costing over a $1M a pop, this could get really expensive.

Ummm... I may or may not know someone who may or may not have launched such a balloon off the coast of a friendly nation with an entire commercial roll of aluminum foil and several high-powered lanterns attached... at night... in dense fog.

Aircraft cannons are cheaper than missiles, and they had very pretty tracers.

Quote from: NT2C on February 11, 2023, 05:38:14 PM

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 11, 2023, 04:41:32 PMMy other fear is a bunch of copycats with access to surplus weather balloons will launch them in hopes of getting their 15 minutes of fame.  With AMRAAMs costing over a $1M a pop, this could get really expensive.

Ummm... I may or may not know someone who may or may not have launched such a balloon off the coast of a friendly nation with an entire commercial roll of aluminum foil and several high-powered lanterns attached... at night... in dense fog.

Aircraft cannons are cheaper than missiles, and they had very pretty tracers.

Any idea how they do tracers on the airsoft cannons?  I remember on AEGs they had some kind of UV emitter module that screwed onto your barrel, like a suppressor.  Shooting with glow-in-the dark ammo at night, it created a tracer effect.

Another thought.  News reports indicate this was shot down over Canadian territory, but with a US F-22 jet.  This suggests to me (which to say, take it for what it's worth) that whatever this third object was, it was operating at a very high altitude, and beyond the range of Canada's military capabilities.  

Because otherwise, it would have been a much better look internationally if it were Canadian forces that took down this latest object.  That would have emphasized this is a truly multi-national matter.  And that China or whoever is doing this is threating the security and stability of multiple nations.  Not just the US, which everyone knows has a bone to pick with China.  

Either that or this Saturday night bourbon is hitting about now and I'm not nearly as smart and insightful as I think.

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 11, 2023, 05:46:11 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 11, 2023, 05:38:14 PM

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 11, 2023, 04:41:32 PMMy other fear is a bunch of copycats with access to surplus weather balloons will launch them in hopes of getting their 15 minutes of fame.  With AMRAAMs costing over a $1M a pop, this could get really expensive.

Ummm... I may or may not know someone who may or may not have launched such a balloon off the coast of a friendly nation with an entire commercial roll of aluminum foil and several high-powered lanterns attached... at night... in dense fog.

Aircraft cannons are cheaper than missiles, and they had very pretty tracers.

Any idea how they do tracers on the airsoft cannons?  I remember on AEGs they had some kind of UV emitter module that screwed onto your barrel, like a suppressor.  Shooting with glow-in-the dark ammo at night, it created a tracer effect.

Similar, I'd imagine. 

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 11, 2023, 05:47:29 PMAnother thought.  News reports indicate this was shot down over Canadian territory, but with a US F-22 jet.  This suggests to me (which to say, take it for what it's worth) that whatever this third object was, it was operating at a very high altitude, and beyond the range of Canada's military capabilities. 

Because otherwise, it would have been a much better look internationally if it were Canadian forces that took down this latest object.  That would have emphasized this is a truly multi-national matter.  And that China or whoever is doing this is threating the security and stability of multiple nations.  Not just the US, which everyone knows has a bone to pick with China. 

Either that or this Saturday night bourbon is hitting about now and I'm not nearly as smart and insightful as I think.

NORAD unit most likely, so effectively both US and Canadian.

Quote from: NT2C on February 11, 2023, 05:51:01 PM

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 11, 2023, 05:47:29 PMAnother thought.  News reports indicate this was shot down over Canadian territory, but with a US F-22 jet.  This suggests to me (which to say, take it for what it's worth) that whatever this third object was, it was operating at a very high altitude, and beyond the range of Canada's military capabilities. 

Because otherwise, it would have been a much better look internationally if it were Canadian forces that took down this latest object.  That would have emphasized this is a truly multi-national matter.  And that China or whoever is doing this is threating the security and stability of multiple nations.  Not just the US, which everyone knows has a bone to pick with China. 

Either that or this Saturday night bourbon is hitting about now and I'm not nearly as smart and insightful as I think.

NORAD unit most likely, so effectively both US and Canadian.

I'm sure you're right it was NORAD.  But it still would have been a better look if it were a Canadian F-18 Hornet that actually fired the missile.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out, with all of these new "High Altitude Objects" appearing. I also read today that they sanctioned several Chinese (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/10/us-sanctions-six-chinese-tech-companies-for-supporting-spy-balloon-programs.html) tech companies for supporting the spy balloon program. I'd assume that means they've "discovered" something of interest in the wreckage.

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 11, 2023, 04:41:32 PMAcknowledging for a moment that we don't actually know at this point if all three (or even any) of these objects are of Chinese origin, it does lend credence to a theory my coworker had: there could be a veritable parade of these things slowly making their way across the Pacific.  All launched before the first balloon became an international incident.  It's not like the Chinese or whoever launched these things can just recall them once they're on their way.

I suggested to the coworker that the Chinese could send a command to these things to vent their gas envelopes and bring them down in international waters, rather than further risk escalation.  But everything is just conjecture at this point.

My other fear is a bunch of copycats with access to surplus weather balloons will launch them in hopes of getting their 15 minutes of fame.  With AMRAAMs costing over a $1M a pop, this could get really expensive.

The Chinese did make a fuss about us shooting down their balloon to the point they said they would do the same to any aircraft of ours that happens to "accidentally" meander into their airspace, so I think it's safe to say that at least the balloon was theirs. 

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 11, 2023, 05:53:33 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 11, 2023, 05:51:01 PM

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 11, 2023, 05:47:29 PMAnother thought.  News reports indicate this was shot down over Canadian territory, but with a US F-22 jet.  This suggests to me (which to say, take it for what it's worth) that whatever this third object was, it was operating at a very high altitude, and beyond the range of Canada's military capabilities. 

Because otherwise, it would have been a much better look internationally if it were Canadian forces that took down this latest object.  That would have emphasized this is a truly multi-national matter.  And that China or whoever is doing this is threating the security and stability of multiple nations.  Not just the US, which everyone knows has a bone to pick with China. 

Either that or this Saturday night bourbon is hitting about now and I'm not nearly as smart and insightful as I think.

NORAD unit most likely, so effectively both US and Canadian.

I'm sure you're right it was NORAD.  But it still would have been a better look if it were a Canadian F-18 Hornet that actually fired the missile.

I didn't read many details on the operation, but I just assumed northern parts of Canada, being sparsely populated, aren't all that well covered by military aircraft and something American out of Alaska would probably have been closer than anything from well-populated areas of Canada given that the Yukon, where this one was shot down, borders Alaska. 

Wth????

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64614098

Quote from: Moab on February 12, 2023, 12:42:14 AMWth????

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64614098

https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=1232.40 (https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=1232.40)

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 12, 2023, 08:50:26 AM

Quote from: Moab on February 12, 2023, 12:42:14 AMWth????

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64614098

https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=1232.40 (https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=1232.40)

If only we'd have a moderator who could merge the threads. :smiley_knipoog: (I'm not sure, can you actually?)

Seems like things are heating up

Montana Airspace Temporarily Closed due to 'Radar Anomaly'
https://news.yahoo.com/montana-airspace-temporarily-closed-due-144743747.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

(https://preview.redd.it/qrw81n0khoha1.jpg?width=736&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=4d020da350c440b4eddb73e15eef54228d871d6a)

Now China is getting ready to shoot down a balloon just off their coast.  https://warisboring.com/china-preparing-to-shoot-down-unidentified-flying-object-over-airspace/

The weird thing about this is the lack of coverage. Major news networks seemed to be walking in lock step with the federal government. And only giving this casual attention. It took a long time for anyone beyond the bbc to even post about this last night. And why wasn't the president addressing this to the nation?

I mean, a Chinese surveillance ballon gets shot down, airspace over Montana gets shut down by the FAA, an unidentified flying object gets shot down over Alaska, and then another ufo gets shot down over Canada with cooperation between Canada and the US? And no news conference? No clear explanation of what these are or how they may or may not be related? And everyone in the US is just supposed to ramain calm and look the other way?

I don't know what's going on. But even my very level headed sister started asking me for prepping advice. And wondering what the hell was going on.

I'm more worried about what they aren't saying. Than what they are. It all seems very suspect. Is it surveillance from China that we've always known about? But kept quiet to not show our hand? But now we're shooting them down, to bolster a new US attitude we want to implant in US citizens, towards China in the near future? Taking into account our recent unnecessary, but enflaming, trips to Taiwan. It's not far fetched.

Are one or two of these actually ufo's? We've suddenly had top level and public discourse on ufo sightings. But that I find hard to believe. For a number of reasons.

Number one an alien race comes here in a space craft. But there is no communication. And we are able to just shoot them down? I'd think if they had enough tech to get here undetected. They have enough tech to evade, communicate or defend themselves. Again, this whole scenario is far fetched. And we don't have enough tech and allies around the world that they weren't detected until they entered our airspace?

At the very least I find this troubling. As I am convinced we don't know what is going on.

When was the last time we shot down an object in the sky over US territory. But did not immediately find it important enough to broadcast anything of concern around the world? Or at least to US citizens?

Everyone is just supposed to act like this is not of at least important concern? I don't get it. Especially in the current climate of our country and the world. It's been a time of high anxiety for awhile now. Pandemic, riots, Ukraine, bad relations between world super powers.

I don't get it. And that concerns me.

Quote from: NT2C on February 12, 2023, 11:21:44 AM(https://preview.redd.it/qrw81n0khoha1.jpg?width=736&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=4d020da350c440b4eddb73e15eef54228d871d6a)

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/014/406/GX6EOHGJFDKEZ74JPS6BW73ZUWW644SR.jpeg)

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 12, 2023, 01:02:30 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 12, 2023, 11:21:44 AM(https://preview.redd.it/qrw81n0khoha1.jpg?width=736&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=4d020da350c440b4eddb73e15eef54228d871d6a)

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/014/406/GX6EOHGJFDKEZ74JPS6BW73ZUWW644SR.jpeg)

https://www.reaperpatches.com/products/float-around-and-find-out-pop-it-2023

The monsters are due on Maple St.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monsters_Are_Due_on_Maple_Street

876FB987-81A4-4B75-AA63-E3398DA2060F.jpeg

Another over Lake Huron about an hour ago ...

Quote from: KentuckyCarbine on February 12, 2023, 04:06:32 PMAnother over Lake Huron about an hour ago ...

My son just told me. What is the media coverage? 

Quote from: Moab on February 12, 2023, 04:08:05 PMWhat is the media coverage?

(https://media.tenor.com/hszF-Q1jdsIAAAAC/will-smith-dont-worry.gif)

Quote from: NT2C on February 12, 2023, 04:28:30 PM

Quote from: Moab on February 12, 2023, 04:08:05 PMWhat is the media coverage?

(https://media.tenor.com/hszF-Q1jdsIAAAAC/will-smith-dont-worry.gif)

Exactly. 

ABC news:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/military-shoots-high-altitude-object-lake-huron-officials/story?id=97068247


"One U.S. official attributed the rise in the sightings to boosted surveillance capabilities by the military and not a rush of new foreign objects flying over American airspace.

Northern Command has adjusted the parameters of their radar capabilities in a way that they can see more than they could before," the official said.

This official explained that the suspected Chinese spy balloon triggered a new state of vigilance for the U.S. military.

"That's not to say they were blissfully ignorant before," the official said, "but there are lots of things floating around and now we are more finely attuned to it.""


So they want us to believe we could not see a balloon floating at from 20k to 40k feet with a school bus sized object attached to it, or that three car sized objects floating below normal airplane height, could not be seen by radar or other US based systems that monitor our skies?

Seriously?!

This is the most dopey thing I've ever heard. I honestly think this is just a prelude to war with China.

And still no major announcements. No press conference from the whitehouse. The president doesn't go on tv and reassure the American public that we've got this undercontrol. Just let America wonder what the hell is going on.

Who's driving the bus?!

Quote from: Moab on February 12, 2023, 04:39:53 PM

Quote from: Moab on February 12, 2023, 04:39:53 PM"One U.S. official attributed the rise in the sightings to boosted surveillance capabilities by the military and not a rush of new foreign objects flying over American airspace.

Northern Command has adjusted the parameters of their radar capabilities in a way that they can see more than they could before," the official said.

This official explained that the suspected Chinese spy balloon triggered a new state of vigilance for the U.S. military.

"That's not to say they were blissfully ignorant before," the official said, "but there are lots of things floating around and now we are more finely attuned to it.""

"Not to say they were blissfully ignorant before"?  Because I don't know about you, but that sounds like exactly what they're saying. 

Well it is Superbowl Sunday

 https://youtu.be/7v2mOqK6eCY

If the Chinese nuke the Super Bowl, it'll be the second most interesting thing to ever happen at one other than the time Janet Jackson showed off her left boob during the half time show.

And the ratings will still lag behind reruns of "I Love Lucy" despite that.

High weirdness continues

https://youtu.be/-BwQ0gpW0Ew

Uruguay reports flashing lights. China prepares to shoot down ufo. 

https://www.vice.com/en/article/7k8g7b/ufo-mania-us-shoots-down-ufos-over-lake-huron-and-alaska-uruguay-investigating-flashing-lights-china-prepares-to-shoot-down-ufo

Just a thought.

What if E.T. phoned home and we've been shooting down his ride home each time ? :eek1: 

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FoJV1YuXkAUoXxz?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 13, 2023, 06:58:13 AM(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FoJV1YuXkAUoXxz?format=jpg&name=900x900)

That is hilarious. I used to read that to my kid everynight. He wore that book out. 

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 13, 2023, 06:58:13 AM(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FoJV1YuXkAUoXxz?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Is it wrong that I want an audiobook version of this and have it be narrated by Samuel L. Jackson ?  :smiley_crocodile:

Every time I see this story I wonder what are "they" trying to distract us from seeing.

This is what Snowden says:
https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/273520684/snowden-calls-ufo-craze-a-distraction

Then there is the 2019 article here:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/02/pentagon-balloons-surveillance-midwest

Then this from 2017:
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/bs-md-snowden-spy-20170424-story.html

Quote from: Raptor on February 14, 2023, 01:40:18 PMEvery time I see this story I wonder what are "they" trying to distract us from seeing.

This is what Snowden says:
https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/273520684/snowden-calls-ufo-craze-a-distraction

Then there is the 2019 article here:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/02/pentagon-balloons-surveillance-midwest

Then this from 2017:
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/bs-md-snowden-spy-20170424-story.html

Ya. Its all bullsh*t on some level. Trying to avoid whats really going on in Urkraine. Or with china. Or something. Our intelligence apparatus seems to work without US knowledge. At least on the citizens casual radar. In talking with my family few have any idea of the actual issues going on today. Content to ride out life in their tiny bubbles of American happiness.

I respect the job our intelligence and political apparatus have in dealing with the rest of the world. On the tactical and strategic front. They can't just be open faced and report everything they are doing or know. That would not work. But they should be at least not running their own agendas.

Weird times for sure. 

Can't disagree with the above statement.

Problem is the government has gotten a whole lot bigger while the world a whole lot smaller.

Quote from: Ghost on February 15, 2023, 11:15:40 AMCan't disagree with the above statement.

Problem is the government has gotten a whole lot bigger while the world a whole lot smaller.

Ya know, that avatar of yours is kinda... balloonlike.  :smiley_chinrub:

Quote from: NT2C on February 15, 2023, 12:29:27 PM

Quote from: Ghost on February 15, 2023, 11:15:40 AMCan't disagree with the above statement.

Problem is the government has gotten a whole lot bigger while the world a whole lot smaller.

Ya know, that avatar of yours is kinda... balloonlike.  :smiley_chinrub:

I'm behind all the balloon releases. Trust me. 

Quote from: Ghost on February 15, 2023, 01:21:27 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 15, 2023, 12:29:27 PM

Quote from: Ghost on February 15, 2023, 11:15:40 AMCan't disagree with the above statement.

Problem is the government has gotten a whole lot bigger while the world a whole lot smaller.

Ya know, that avatar of yours is kinda... balloonlike.  :smiley_chinrub:

I'm behind all the balloon releases. Trust me.

:smiley_shoot:

Oy, chieftain! We agreed on no flame-throwering our resident pod people; that includes laser-throwering.

Or are we calling Ghost an impostor spy and not balloon-travelling alien? In that case I guess laser away. (Sorry Ghost, still like your Alice thread)

Quote from: tirls on February 15, 2023, 11:05:38 PMOy, chieftain! We agreed on no flame-throwering our resident pod people; that includes laser-throwering.

Or are we calling Ghost an impostor spy and not balloon-travelling alien? In that case I guess laser away. (Sorry Ghost, still like your Alice thread)

Lol! 🤣

Oh, before I forget...  Anianna, I'm informed by the commandant of our bad chimps forced labor battalion that the chimps worked extra hard building it and kicked your toaster oven out the door a week early!  Congrats again on winning this prize and it should be in your P.O. box later today!

I have never even heard of a PICO balloon or the hobby.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/02/17/illinois-hobbyist-balloon-missing-yukon/

https://www.zerohedge.com/military/illinois-hobby-club-believes-pentagon-shot-down-their-12-pico-balloon

A how to guide to make a pico balloon.
https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Make-a-Picoballoon/

Quote from: Raptor on February 17, 2023, 11:38:54 AMI have never even heard of a PICO balloon or the hobby.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/02/17/illinois-hobbyist-balloon-missing-yukon/

https://www.zerohedge.com/military/illinois-hobby-club-believes-pentagon-shot-down-their-12-pico-balloon

A how to guide to make a pico balloon.
https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Make-a-Picoballoon/

Good lord, that pico balloon tutorial is intimidating!  It says you have to register your device on the tracking network and give it a name. If I were ever to build one I think I'd name mine "Missile Bait".

Quote from: NT2C on February 17, 2023, 12:41:42 AMOh, before I forget...  Anianna, I'm informed by the commandant of our bad chimps forced labor battalion that the chimps worked extra hard building it and kicked your toaster oven out the door a week early!  Congrats again on winning this prize and it should be in your P.O. box later today!

Wait, like really?  0.o

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 17, 2023, 12:11:24 PM

Quote from: Raptor on February 17, 2023, 11:38:54 AMI have never even heard of a PICO balloon or the hobby.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/02/17/illinois-hobbyist-balloon-missing-yukon/

https://www.zerohedge.com/military/illinois-hobby-club-believes-pentagon-shot-down-their-12-pico-balloon

A how to guide to make a pico balloon.
https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Make-a-Picoballoon/

Good lord, that pico balloon tutorial is intimidating!  It says you have to register your device on the tracking network and give it a name. If I were ever to build one I think I'd name mine "Missile Bait".

See, this is the part that gets me.  Those balloons are registered and tracked.  Did nobody think to check the list before the massively expensive and over-responsive scrambling of jets?  Are we talking balloons that weren't properly registered? 

Quote from: Anianna on February 17, 2023, 12:31:00 PM

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 17, 2023, 12:11:24 PM

Quote from: Raptor on February 17, 2023, 11:38:54 AMI have never even heard of a PICO balloon or the hobby.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/02/17/illinois-hobbyist-balloon-missing-yukon/

https://www.zerohedge.com/military/illinois-hobby-club-believes-pentagon-shot-down-their-12-pico-balloon

A how to guide to make a pico balloon.
https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Make-a-Picoballoon/

Good lord, that pico balloon tutorial is intimidating!  It says you have to register your device on the tracking network and give it a name. If I were ever to build one I think I'd name mine "Missile Bait".

See, this is the part that gets me.  Those balloons are registered and tracked.  Did nobody think to check the list before the massively expensive and over-responsive scrambling of jets?  Are we talking balloons that weren't properly registered? 

Apparently the USAF subscribes to the Han Solo school of self defense - "shoot first and  ... shoot some more"  :smiley_crocodile:

Quote from: Anianna on February 17, 2023, 12:27:32 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 17, 2023, 12:41:42 AMOh, before I forget...  Anianna, I'm informed by the commandant of our bad chimps forced labor battalion that the chimps worked extra hard building it and kicked your toaster oven out the door a week early!  Congrats again on winning this prize and it should be in your P.O. box later today!

Wait, like really?  0.o

Yes, like really!  When a UFoZS staff member tells you that you've won a prize, damnit, I make sure you get it!  :smiley_hitchhike:

DASH Mini Toaster Oven Cooker for Bread, Bagels, Cookies, Pizza, Paninis and More with Baking Tray, Rack, Auto Shut Off Feature - Aqua (https://a.co/hJ94VoI)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71IDSirWLNL._AC_SL1500_.jpg)

The tracking shows it arrived at your PO box at 6:45 this morning, but it also says it's scheduled for delivery tomorrow before 8 PM.  :smiley_shrug: 

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 17, 2023, 12:34:37 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 17, 2023, 12:31:00 PM

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 17, 2023, 12:11:24 PM

Quote from: Raptor on February 17, 2023, 11:38:54 AMI have never even heard of a PICO balloon or the hobby.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/02/17/illinois-hobbyist-balloon-missing-yukon/

https://www.zerohedge.com/military/illinois-hobby-club-believes-pentagon-shot-down-their-12-pico-balloon

A how to guide to make a pico balloon.
https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Make-a-Picoballoon/

Good lord, that pico balloon tutorial is intimidating!  It says you have to register your device on the tracking network and give it a name. If I were ever to build one I think I'd name mine "Missile Bait".

See, this is the part that gets me.  Those balloons are registered and tracked.  Did nobody think to check the list before the massively expensive and over-responsive scrambling of jets?  Are we talking balloons that weren't properly registered? 

Apparently the USAF subscribes to the Han Solo school of self defense - "shoot first and  ... shoot some more"  :smiley_crocodile:

Especially since they aim like storm troopers. https://www.livemint.com/news/world/oops-us-pilot-misses-first-missile-shot-while-knocking-down-aerial-object-11676397720492.html

(https://preview.redd.it/4vox29yghnm61.jpg?auto=webp&s=de1f015d0c085177efff7878cf9ac54826b5f715)

Quote from: Raptor on February 17, 2023, 11:38:54 AMI have never even heard of a PICO balloon or the hobby.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/02/17/illinois-hobbyist-balloon-missing-yukon/

https://www.zerohedge.com/military/illinois-hobby-club-believes-pentagon-shot-down-their-12-pico-balloon

A how to guide to make a pico balloon.
https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Make-a-Picoballoon/

I knew about these. I saw a small doc or something about a kid taking pictures of the earth with one. Which makes this whole thing even more suspect. 

I can't tell which major scandal they're trying to get us to not see or talk about. 

Quote from: Moab on February 17, 2023, 01:16:39 PM

Quote from: Raptor on February 17, 2023, 11:38:54 AMI have never even heard of a PICO balloon or the hobby.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/02/17/illinois-hobbyist-balloon-missing-yukon/

https://www.zerohedge.com/military/illinois-hobby-club-believes-pentagon-shot-down-their-12-pico-balloon

A how to guide to make a pico balloon.
https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Make-a-Picoballoon/

I knew about these. I saw a small doc or something about a kid taking pictures of the earth with one. Which makes this whole thing even more suspect.

I can't tell which major scandal they're trying to get us to not see or talk about.

All I know is that it's time for Balloon Boy (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balloon_boy_hoax) to make an appearance. 

Quote from: NT2C on February 17, 2023, 12:39:58 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 17, 2023, 12:27:32 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 17, 2023, 12:41:42 AMOh, before I forget...  Anianna, I'm informed by the commandant of our bad chimps forced labor battalion that the chimps worked extra hard building it and kicked your toaster oven out the door a week early!  Congrats again on winning this prize and it should be in your P.O. box later today!

Wait, like really?  0.o

Yes, like really!  When a UFoZS staff member tells you that you've won a prize, damnit, I make sure you get it!  :smiley_hitchhike:

DASH Mini Toaster Oven Cooker for Bread, Bagels, Cookies, Pizza, Paninis and More with Baking Tray, Rack, Auto Shut Off Feature - Aqua (https://a.co/hJ94VoI)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71IDSirWLNL._AC_SL1500_.jpg)

The tracking shows it arrived at your PO box at 6:45 this morning, but it also says it's scheduled for delivery tomorrow before 8 PM.  :smiley_shrug: 

:smiley_crocodile:
We're picking up a birthday pie for one of the kids from the bakery right next to the post office tomorrow, so I'll give it a check then.  Holy mackerel. 

I'm going to have to remember to be careful about casually mentioning prizes in my sub.  :icon_crazy:

Quote from: NT2C on February 17, 2023, 12:39:58 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 17, 2023, 12:27:32 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 17, 2023, 12:41:42 AMOh, before I forget...  Anianna, I'm informed by the commandant of our bad chimps forced labor battalion that the chimps worked extra hard building it and kicked your toaster oven out the door a week early!  Congrats again on winning this prize and it should be in your P.O. box later today!

Wait, like really?  0.o

Yes, like really!  When a UFoZS staff member tells you that you've won a prize, damnit, I make sure you get it!  :smiley_hitchhike:

DASH Mini Toaster Oven Cooker for Bread, Bagels, Cookies, Pizza, Paninis and More with Baking Tray, Rack, Auto Shut Off Feature - Aqua (https://a.co/hJ94VoI)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71IDSirWLNL._AC_SL1500_.jpg)

The tracking shows it arrived at your PO box at 6:45 this morning, but it also says it's scheduled for delivery tomorrow before 8 PM.  :smiley_shrug: 

Holy shit Anianna! Had I known NT2C was going to send you an actual prize, I would have said "Anianna wins the Caribbean cruise!" when you correctly predicted the spy balloon shoot down.

Hmmm. Wonder if this means I should check my mail too. Probably got a bill from NT2C  ... :smiley_chinrub:

I'm going to be making so many little personal pizzas with my einkorn flour in this thing!  :awesome:

Quote from: NT2C on February 17, 2023, 12:39:58 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 17, 2023, 12:27:32 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 17, 2023, 12:41:42 AMOh, before I forget...  Anianna, I'm informed by the commandant of our bad chimps forced labor battalion that the chimps worked extra hard building it and kicked your toaster oven out the door a week early!  Congrats again on winning this prize and it should be in your P.O. box later today!

Wait, like really?  0.o

Yes, like really!  When a UFoZS staff member tells you that you've won a prize, damnit, I make sure you get it!  :smiley_hitchhike:

DASH Mini Toaster Oven Cooker for Bread, Bagels, Cookies, Pizza, Paninis and More with Baking Tray, Rack, Auto Shut Off Feature - Aqua (https://a.co/hJ94VoI)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71IDSirWLNL._AC_SL1500_.jpg)

The tracking shows it arrived at your PO box at 6:45 this morning, but it also says it's scheduled for e tomUFOorrow before 8 PM.  :smiley_shrug: 

Darn pico ballons/Chinese spy balloon/UFO alien overlord transportation device.  Never on schedule

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 17, 2023, 12:11:24 PM

Quote from: Raptor on February 17, 2023, 11:38:54 AMI have never even heard of a PICO balloon or the hobby.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/02/17/illinois-hobbyist-balloon-missing-yukon/

https://www.zerohedge.com/military/illinois-hobby-club-believes-pentagon-shot-down-their-12-pico-balloon

A how to guide to make a pico balloon.
https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Make-a-Picoballoon/

Good lord, that pico balloon tutorial is intimidating!  It says you have to register your device on the tracking network and give it a name. If I were ever to build one I think I'd name mine "Missile Bait".

I'd want to build two just so I could name them "Beavis and Butthead". :smiley_crocodile:

Only problem is I think Mike Judge would sue me for using those names.

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 17, 2023, 05:16:19 PM

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 17, 2023, 12:11:24 PM

Quote from: Raptor on February 17, 2023, 11:38:54 AMI have never even heard of a PICO balloon or the hobby.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/02/17/illinois-hobbyist-balloon-missing-yukon/

https://www.zerohedge.com/military/illinois-hobby-club-believes-pentagon-shot-down-their-12-pico-balloon

A how to guide to make a pico balloon.
https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Make-a-Picoballoon/

Good lord, that pico balloon tutorial is intimidating!  It says you have to register your device on the tracking network and give it a name. If I were ever to build one I think I'd name mine "Missile Bait".

I'd want to build two just so I could name them "Beavis and Butthead". :smiley_crocodile:

Only problem is I think Mike Judge would sue me for using those names.

Oh, we could have a fun time naming those balloons!
Imagine the news reports: "Today the Air Force announced they shot down ...Your Hopes and Dreams..."

We could name a balloon "Santa Claus" and watch the circus unfold when the news channels report that. :greenguy: 

"And in other news, the USAF announced today they had shot down 'Santa Claus' over US airspace."

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 17, 2023, 09:13:41 PMWe could name a balloon "Santa Claus" and watch the circus unfold when the news channels report that. :greenguy: 

"And in other news, the USAF announced today they had shot down 'Santa Claus' over US airspace."

"Intergalactic Peace Ship"

Quote from: NT2C on February 17, 2023, 09:16:28 PM

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 17, 2023, 09:13:41 PMWe could name a balloon "Santa Claus" and watch the circus unfold when the news channels report that. :greenguy: 

"And in other news, the USAF announced today they had shot down 'Santa Claus' over US airspace."

"Intergalactic Peace Ship"

"E.T.'s ride home".

I still think it was damned nice of that balloon to decend to an altitude the F22 could actually reach and shoot it down from, after cruising thousands and thousands of miles more than 5 miles higher.

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 17, 2023, 09:24:31 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 17, 2023, 09:16:28 PM

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 17, 2023, 09:13:41 PMWe could name a balloon "Santa Claus" and watch the circus unfold when the news channels report that. :greenguy: 

"And in other news, the USAF announced today they had shot down 'Santa Claus' over US airspace."

"Intergalactic Peace Ship"

"E.T.'s ride home".

"And in other news, the USAF announced today they had shot down "Yo Mama"  :smiley_crocodile:

Quote from: Anianna on February 17, 2023, 02:59:03 PMI'm going to be making so many little personal pizzas with my einkorn flour in this thing!  :awesome:

Did you pick it up today?

Quote from: NT2C on February 18, 2023, 11:30:58 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 17, 2023, 02:59:03 PMI'm going to be making so many little personal pizzas with my einkorn flour in this thing!  :awesome:

Did you pick it up today?

Unfortunately, my post office is extremely understaffed and only open randomly a few days a week.  They weren't open Friday or Saturday.  I guess I'll have to try again Tuesday.

Quote from: Anianna on February 19, 2023, 02:18:01 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 18, 2023, 11:30:58 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 17, 2023, 02:59:03 PMI'm going to be making so many little personal pizzas with my einkorn flour in this thing!  :awesome:

Did you pick it up today?

Unfortunately, my post office is extremely understaffed and only open randomly a few days a week.  They weren't open Friday or Saturday.  I guess I'll have to try again Tuesday.

Well, that sucks.

Bet they're all just hiding out in the back, making personal-sized pizzas in it.  :tickedoff:

Quote from: NT2C on February 19, 2023, 02:32:20 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 19, 2023, 02:18:01 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 18, 2023, 11:30:58 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 17, 2023, 02:59:03 PMI'm going to be making so many little personal pizzas with my einkorn flour in this thing!  :awesome:

Did you pick it up today?

Unfortunately, my post office is extremely understaffed and only open randomly a few days a week.  They weren't open Friday or Saturday.  I guess I'll have to try again Tuesday.

Well, that sucks.

Bet they're all just hiding out in the back, making personal-sized pizzas in it.  :tickedoff:

🤣

I figure the reason the tracking is wonky is because it's technically delivered to the post office, but nobody's been there to actually sort the boxes.  There wasn't even a package slip in my box, yet.

Quote from: Anianna on February 19, 2023, 06:00:20 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 19, 2023, 02:32:20 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 19, 2023, 02:18:01 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 18, 2023, 11:30:58 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 17, 2023, 02:59:03 PMI'm going to be making so many little personal pizzas with my einkorn flour in this thing!  :awesome:

Did you pick it up today?

Unfortunately, my post office is extremely understaffed and only open randomly a few days a week.  They weren't open Friday or Saturday.  I guess I'll have to try again Tuesday.

Well, that sucks.

Bet they're all just hiding out in the back, making personal-sized pizzas in it.  :tickedoff:

🤣

I figure the reason the tracking is wonky is because it's technically delivered to the post office, but nobody's been there to actually sort the boxes.  There wasn't even a package slip in my box, yet.

And yet, it shows as available for pickup.

Quote from: NT2C on February 19, 2023, 06:39:39 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 19, 2023, 06:00:20 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 19, 2023, 02:32:20 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 19, 2023, 02:18:01 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 18, 2023, 11:30:58 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 17, 2023, 02:59:03 PMI'm going to be making so many little personal pizzas with my einkorn flour in this thing!  :awesome:

Did you pick it up today?

Unfortunately, my post office is extremely understaffed and only open randomly a few days a week.  They weren't open Friday or Saturday.  I guess I'll have to try again Tuesday.

Well, that sucks.

Bet they're all just hiding out in the back, making personal-sized pizzas in it.  :tickedoff:

🤣

I figure the reason the tracking is wonky is because it's technically delivered to the post office, but nobody's been there to actually sort the boxes.  There wasn't even a package slip in my box, yet.

And yet, it shows as available for pickup.

Huh.  Maybe they got it sorted Saturday afternoon. 

Quote from: Anianna on February 19, 2023, 07:40:38 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 19, 2023, 06:39:39 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 19, 2023, 06:00:20 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 19, 2023, 02:32:20 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 19, 2023, 02:18:01 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 18, 2023, 11:30:58 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 17, 2023, 02:59:03 PMI'm going to be making so many little personal pizzas with my einkorn flour in this thing!  :awesome:

Did you pick it up today?

Unfortunately, my post office is extremely understaffed and only open randomly a few days a week.  They weren't open Friday or Saturday.  I guess I'll have to try again Tuesday.

Well, that sucks.

Bet they're all just hiding out in the back, making personal-sized pizzas in it.  :tickedoff:

🤣

I figure the reason the tracking is wonky is because it's technically delivered to the post office, but nobody's been there to actually sort the boxes.  There wasn't even a package slip in my box, yet.

And yet, it shows as available for pickup.

Huh.  Maybe they got it sorted Saturday afternoon. 

Nope, as of 9PM Friday

9305589703000418503341

Quote from: NT2C on February 19, 2023, 08:18:42 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 19, 2023, 07:40:38 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 19, 2023, 06:39:39 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 19, 2023, 06:00:20 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 19, 2023, 02:32:20 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 19, 2023, 02:18:01 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 18, 2023, 11:30:58 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 17, 2023, 02:59:03 PMI'm going to be making so many little personal pizzas with my einkorn flour in this thing!  :awesome:

Did you pick it up today?

Unfortunately, my post office is extremely understaffed and only open randomly a few days a week.  They weren't open Friday or Saturday.  I guess I'll have to try again Tuesday.

Well, that sucks.

Bet they're all just hiding out in the back, making personal-sized pizzas in it.  :tickedoff:

🤣

I figure the reason the tracking is wonky is because it's technically delivered to the post office, but nobody's been there to actually sort the boxes.  There wasn't even a package slip in my box, yet.

And yet, it shows as available for pickup.

Huh.  Maybe they got it sorted Saturday afternoon. 

Nope, as of 9PM Friday

9305589703000418503341

Oh, no, there was no slip as of 10AM Saturday.  Hopefully, they'll be open Tuesday so I can ask about it if there's no slip by then.

I'm glad you told me about the package because there still was no slip in my box, so I wouldn't have known to ask for it.  The guy at the desk was tickled over my tiny toaster. 

Check this thing out, y'all!  My signature blue camo boonie (protect ya damn face, y'all) with binder clip for scale:

(https://i.imgur.com/zAzvgoB.jpg)

:panic: It's so cuuute! :panic:

:awesome:

Thank you!

Quote from: Anianna on February 21, 2023, 12:24:51 PMI'm glad you told me about the package because there still was no slip in my box, so I wouldn't have known to ask for it.  The guy at the desk was tickled over my tiny toaster. 

Check this thing out, y'all!  My signature blue camo boonie (protect ya damn face, y'all) with binder clip for scale:

(https://i.imgur.com/zAzvgoB.jpg)

:panic: It's so cuuute! :panic:

:awesome:

Thank you!

I wasn't sure what color but the "good" colors cost a couple bucks more and Chimpski and I were going for... "economical".  :smiley_clap:

Quote from: NT2C on February 21, 2023, 12:31:35 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 21, 2023, 12:24:51 PMI'm glad you told me about the package because there still was no slip in my box, so I wouldn't have known to ask for it.  The guy at the desk was tickled over my tiny toaster. 

Check this thing out, y'all!  My signature blue camo boonie (protect ya damn face, y'all) with binder clip for scale:

(https://i.imgur.com/zAzvgoB.jpg)

:panic: It's so cuuute! :panic:

:awesome:

Thank you!

I wasn't sure what color but the "good" colors cost a couple bucks more and Chimpski and I were going for... "economical".  :smiley_clap:

This is exactly the color I would have picked had I bought it for myself, so glad it was the economical option!

What are the logistics issues regarding our LaWS laser weapon system being used to defend against spy balloons? Its normally ship mounted but is there any way to put it on a C-130 or other aircraft for mobility [not altitude] to use against balloons?

Cause we're using $400K ammo to shoot down these 'balloons'. Which is really not even made for that. There needs to be a heat signature to lock on with that ammo. The laser system can be aimed at and will hit the balloon part, deflate it, and not damage the payload at all. and the balloon part will act as sort of a parachute for the payload. For $1 a shot.

The payload was destroyed on the first balloon. It seems to me that if we can mount the LaWS on an aerial platform we can cover a large area ALASKA and the west coast with one or two mounted that way.

Then one on a ship in Hawaii, and maybe a few other stationary in the north.

Destroyed payload. Think laser an just Pop the balloon. Range and speed of target are not an issue with the LaWS.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi2-prod.mirror.co.uk%2Fincoming%2Farticle29151375.ece%2FALTERNATES%2Fs1200%2F0_Suspected-Chinese-spy-balloon-shot-down-by-US-fighter-jet-South-Carolina-USA-04-Feb-2023.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=82eac4e4d1d26baf3509bd3846b7b29b5310fdc3b5881e20f28c494e943f26fa&ipo=images)

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fnavyseals.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F01%2Funnamed-232x300.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=3f9eb1b12938010d3003ac291d42aee37fe0a4ab85782b4fd45c917ff3ac76c9&ipo=images)

This was 5 years ago and was publicly announced: ETH LASER HEADING INTO THE STRATOSPHERE WITH NASA (https://www.s-ge.com/en/article/news/20182-hightech-eth-laser)

Now consider what could have been done since then and not announced.

Quote from: NT2C on February 22, 2023, 01:37:51 PMThis was 5 years ago and was publicly announced: ETH LASER HEADING INTO THE STRATOSPHERE WITH NASA (https://www.s-ge.com/en/article/news/20182-hightech-eth-laser)

Now consider what could have been done since then and not announced.

That's private sector, but the military has the laser and the aircraft. I wasn't actually thinking that big though, that is really cool, there must be a smaller more agile solution, that can be called into action and stationed at multiple locations [bases].

But that gave me the idea that the laser should be compartmentalized as an air craft accessory, sort of like on a pallet that you just load on and plug into the aircrafts electrical system. So the aircraft can be used for its regular duties daily but then when there is an alert the LaWS get 'mounted' and the plane goes out on its mission and can be on station with the laser in an hour or two.

(https://www.s-ge.com/sites/default/files/styles/sge_header_md/public/article/images/sge_25.jpg?itok=KD3WfZX1)

And then there's this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_YAL-1

Quote from: MacWa77ace on February 22, 2023, 01:30:53 PMWhat are the logistics issues regarding our LaWS laser weapon system being used to defend against spy balloons? Its normally ship mounted but is there any way to put it on a C-130 or other aircraft for mobility [not altitude] to use against balloons?

Cause we're using $400K ammo to shoot down these 'balloons'. Which is really not even made for that. There needs to be a heat signature to lock on with that ammo. The laser system can be aimed at and will hit the balloon part, deflate it, and not damage the payload at all. and the balloon part will act as sort of a parachute for the payload. For $1 a shot.

The payload was destroyed on the first balloon. It seems to me that if we can mount the LaWS on an aerial platform we can cover a large area ALASKA and the west coast with one or two mounted that way.

Then one on a ship in Hawaii, and maybe a few other stationary in the north.

Destroyed payload. Think laser an just Pop the balloon. Range and speed of target are not an issue with the LaWS.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi2-prod.mirror.co.uk%2Fincoming%2Farticle29151375.ece%2FALTERNATES%2Fs1200%2F0_Suspected-Chinese-spy-balloon-shot-down-by-US-fighter-jet-South-Carolina-USA-04-Feb-2023.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=82eac4e4d1d26baf3509bd3846b7b29b5310fdc3b5881e20f28c494e943f26fa&ipo=images)

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fnavyseals.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F01%2Funnamed-232x300.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=3f9eb1b12938010d3003ac291d42aee37fe0a4ab85782b4fd45c917ff3ac76c9&ipo=images)

Earlier in this thread (before Anianna inadvertently revealed she has hacked into the Pentagon's secure conferencing system and spilled the military's exact plans to bring it down off the East Coast), a directed energy weapon is what I was suggesting. Perforate the canopy and the payload section would then be attached to what would have amounted to a very inefficient parachute.

It would have brought the thing down over dry land, relatively intact and with negligible risk to persons and property. 

Clearly UFoZs should be in charge of these important national security decisions. We are a goddamn genius bar of military planning.

phhhhtt Gates, not a visionary. Program cancelled.

QuoteSecretary of Defense Gates summarized fundamental concerns with the practicality of the program concept:

"I don't know anybody at the Department of Defense, Mr. Tiahrt, who thinks that this program should, or would, ever be operationally deployed. The reality is that you would need a laser something like 20 to 30 times more powerful than the chemical laser in the plane right now to be able to get any distance from the launch site to fire ... So, right now the ABL would have to orbit inside the borders of Iran in order to be able to try and use its laser to shoot down that missile in the boost phase. And if you were to operationalize this you would be looking at 10 to 20 747s, at a billion and a half dollars apiece, and $100 million a year to operate. And there's nobody in uniform that I know who believes that this is a workable concept."

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 22, 2023, 02:07:30 PM

Quote from: MacWa77ace on February 22, 2023, 01:30:53 PMWhat are the logistics issues regarding our LaWS laser weapon system being used to defend against spy balloons? Its normally ship mounted but is there any way to put it on a C-130 or other aircraft for mobility [not altitude] to use against balloons?

Cause we're using $400K ammo to shoot down these 'balloons'. Which is really not even made for that. There needs to be a heat signature to lock on with that ammo. The laser system can be aimed at and will hit the balloon part, deflate it, and not damage the payload at all. and the balloon part will act as sort of a parachute for the payload. For $1 a shot.

The payload was destroyed on the first balloon. It seems to me that if we can mount the LaWS on an aerial platform we can cover a large area ALASKA and the west coast with one or two mounted that way.

Then one on a ship in Hawaii, and maybe a few other stationary in the north.

Destroyed payload. Think laser an just Pop the balloon. Range and speed of target are not an issue with the LaWS.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi2-prod.mirror.co.uk%2Fincoming%2Farticle29151375.ece%2FALTERNATES%2Fs1200%2F0_Suspected-Chinese-spy-balloon-shot-down-by-US-fighter-jet-South-Carolina-USA-04-Feb-2023.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=82eac4e4d1d26baf3509bd3846b7b29b5310fdc3b5881e20f28c494e943f26fa&ipo=images)

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fnavyseals.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F01%2Funnamed-232x300.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=3f9eb1b12938010d3003ac291d42aee37fe0a4ab85782b4fd45c917ff3ac76c9&ipo=images)

Earlier in this thread (before Anianna inadvertently revealed she has hacked into the Pentagon's secure conferencing system and spilled the military's exact plans to bring it down off the East Coast), a directed energy weapon is what I was suggesting. Perforate the canopy and the payload section would then be attached to what would have amounted to a very inefficient parachute.

It would have brought the thing down over dry land, relatively intact and with negligible risk to persons and property. 

Clearly UFoZs should be in charge of these important national security decisions. We are a goddamn genius bar of military planning.

And we could do it a lot cheaper too.

We probably wouldn't even need 400K missiles and 35 million dollar fighter jets. Just a couple of Joerg Sprave's slingshots, some steel ball bearings, a hot air balloon and we could probably take out a Chinese spy balloon for way less than that.

If nothing else, we could probably use one of NT2C's high powered flashlights to pop the balloons and safely bring down the payload.

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 22, 2023, 02:07:30 PMEarlier in this thread (before Anianna inadvertently revealed she has hacked into the Pentagon's secure conferencing system and spilled the military's exact plans to bring it down off the East Coast), a directed energy weapon is what I was suggesting. Perforate the canopy and the payload section would then be attached to what would have amounted to a very inefficient parachute.

It would have brought the thing down over dry land, relatively intact and with negligible risk to persons and property. 

Clearly UFoZs should be in charge of these important national security decisions. We are a goddamn genius bar of military planning.

I'm trying to figure out the logistics for them, we have the planes and the LaWS, put them together and you get a CSB MAC MOD 1 and game over for the balloon industry.

Oh they are way beyond that,

Actual classified photo of the pilot who shot down the balloon
(https://nbatitlechase.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/PHOTO-Classified-Photo-Of-The-Pilot-Who-Shot-Down-The-Chinese-Spy-Balloon-Meme-768x783.jpg)

https://youtu.be/DJusB7MnReE

Anyone else feel super confident in our government now? (Chortle)

I've heard some fairly convincing arguments that the government let it go the whole distance because it allowed us to gather more intelligence about the Chinese than what the balloon was able to gather about us.  The balloon wouldn't really get anything more than what could be seen in regular satellite photos, so no risk there.  However, as long as it was talking back and forth with whomever launched it, we were able to listen in on that and potentially use that information going forward with code breaking or interpreting other communications.  After gathering as much counter-intel as we could, we then shot it down at a time/place where we could both minimize the risk to people, and maximize the likelihood of retrieving the pieces. 

Basically, it posed very little risk to us, but gave us some significant intelligence about them.  One of those, "never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" situations.

You'd think with all the technology China has, they'd have better ways to surveil the US than a bunch of balloons, right ?

I mean the Chinese would be better off just letting Americans willingly hand over their user data via TikTok instead of wasting time with balloons or spy satellites.

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 22, 2023, 03:49:31 PMYou'd think with all the technology China has, they'd have better ways to surveil the US than a bunch of balloons, right ?

I mean the Chinese would be better off just letting Americans willingly hand over their user data via TikTok instead of wasting time with balloons or spy satellites.

True, but you're assuming that every decision maker there is logical.  For all we know, it could've been a "brilliant" idea cooked up by someone in their government/military who set it up and did it on their own, without approval from higher up.  To them, it might've made sense and it simply didn't get overruled, because nobody higher up even knew about it.

Large organizations, like governments, militaries, big companies, etc. have always had problems like that.  We studied some of them in college in poli-sci classes.  The classic example is the Challenger explosion.  The issue with the o-rings was widely known to the engineers.  But the people above them either didn't know, or didn't think it was as big of an issue as it turned out to be.  There were just too many levels between the people who knew something, and those who were in charge.  Oops.

And something that I've wondered about is whether this was intended for us at all, or if it was targeted closer to home, like South Korea, Japan, or even North Korea (the Chinese and N. Korea aren't exactly on great terms right now).  Maybe there was supposed to be a way for them to down the balloon themselves (like a charge that would blow out the balloon so that they could crash it into the sea once it was done), but it failed and the balloon kept going.  If you look at a map of the believed path (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-64514120) of the balloon, it went over both S. Korea and Japan. 

The potential scariest option of all is that maybe it was a test flight / proof-of-concept for using a balloon like this to float an EMP-device over the US.  The height is just about optimal, and a real EMP device wouldn't need to be anywhere near as large as the payload on that first balloon...

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 22, 2023, 03:49:31 PMYou'd think with all the technology China has, they'd have better ways to surveil the US than a bunch of balloons, right ?

I mean the Chinese would be better off just letting Americans willingly hand over their user data via TikTok instead of wasting time with balloons or spy satellites.

If spy sats were the best answer then we wouldn't still be flying recon aircraft.  This is China's version of a long-range recon aircraft.  It's closer to the ground than a sat, has less atmosphere to try and peer through and can take better pictures.

Quote from: NT2C on February 22, 2023, 04:12:54 PM

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 22, 2023, 03:49:31 PMYou'd think with all the technology China has, they'd have better ways to surveil the US than a bunch of balloons, right ?

I mean the Chinese would be better off just letting Americans willingly hand over their user data via TikTok instead of wasting time with balloons or spy satellites.

If spy sats were the best answer then we wouldn't still be flying recon aircraft.  This is China's version of a long-range recon aircraft.  It's closer to the ground than a sat, has less atmosphere to try and peer through and can take better pictures.

I thought China already had a long-range recon aircraft ?

I could've sworn they had their own version of our SR-71 or the U2. Not sure if the Russians shared any info on the U2 with the Chinese when the Russians shot one down back in the 60's.

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 22, 2023, 05:24:34 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 22, 2023, 04:12:54 PM

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 22, 2023, 03:49:31 PMYou'd think with all the technology China has, they'd have better ways to surveil the US than a bunch of balloons, right ?

I mean the Chinese would be better off just letting Americans willingly hand over their user data via TikTok instead of wasting time with balloons or spy satellites.

If spy sats were the best answer then we wouldn't still be flying recon aircraft.  This is China's version of a long-range recon aircraft.  It's closer to the ground than a sat, has less atmosphere to try and peer through and can take better pictures.

I thought China already had a long-range recon aircraft ?

I could've sworn they had their own version of our SR-71 or the U2. Not sure if the Russians shared any info on the U2 with the Chinese when the Russians shot one down back in the 60's.

It's one thing to have long range recon aircraft.  It's something entirely different to have long range aircraft that can safely operate in hostile airspace.  There's a reason why we're not flying SR-71s over Russia anymore.  And it's not just because satellites can can do the job just as well.

China does have long range aircraft more than capable of conducting surveillance daily. They have several state owned airlines that routinely fly from the PRC to several points in the US. There is no reason to assume that these cannot be (& likely have now) fitted with ELINT equipment. They do not need a U-2 or SR-71. A Boeing 777 or Airbus 350 is a much better platform for this type of activity. 

While these and all airline flights are closely monitored by ATC a pilot has discretion to change the route of the flight at his/her discretion. 

It would also be easy to schedule a specially fitted airliner on a "repositioning or R&M flight" to anywhere in the US as long as it is not a commercial passenger flight. 

The reason to use balloons is for loiter time. 

https://onemileatatime.com/chinese-airlines-banned-from-flying-to-us/

Quote from: Raptor on February 23, 2023, 12:21:58 PMChina does have long range aircraft more than capable of conducting surveillance daily. They have several state owned airlines that routinely fly from the PRC to several points in the US. There is no reason to assume that these cannot be (& likely have now) fitted with ELINT equipment. They do not need a U-2 or SR-71. A Boeing 777 or Airbus 350 is a much better platform for this type of activity.

While these and all airline flights are closely monitored by ATC a pilot has discretion to change the route of the flight at his/her discretion.

It would also be easy to schedule a specially fitted airliner on a "repositioning or R&M flight" to anywhere in the US as long as it is not a commercial passenger flight.

The reason to use balloons is for loiter time.

https://onemileatatime.com/chinese-airlines-banned-from-flying-to-us/

Fitting out such an airliner for ELINT duty would require some rather obvious changes to the airframe and control panels.  Even if some clever attempts were made to conceal the changes the plane would have to undergo inspection by US Customs and Border Protection.  No, I can't see such a project going unnoticed by the US. 

As for loiter time, yes, the balloon has that advantage but getting it directly over the target is a little problematic.

A lot would depend on what they were monitoring. The BIZJET below has a visible canoe to hide the antenna mainly for fuel efficiency. Yes that may raise some eyebrows but we let a freaking balloon the size of the below jet float over the CONUS

A larger airliner is already an antenna farm. It would be very easy to fit and fare in place antennas all over both flat and vertical (empennage) types. They could even be carried inside the cabin as long as it was a cargo plane or a plane enroute to a R&M facility.

Also note that as long as the plane is operating with an air worthiness certificate issued by it registrar (PRC) that is also recognized by the US they are good to go. If they are not carrying passengers for hire and/or en-route to an R&M facility there not much more scrutiny that can be done other than a search for contraband. 
777 Capture.JPG bizjet Capture.JPG

That and since it may be en-route to an R&M facility the Transponders may malfunction and then they would have to descend to uncontrolled airspace (below 18,000 ft) to continue the flight. They may have to circle a few times in the same area. :) 

At some point though they will have to land and be inspected by CBP.  It is no secret that CBP officers are well-trained in what things should look like and that anything that looks "odd" or unusual is going to get extra scrutiny.  Anything that appears to entail espionage is going to be reported to the FBI, etc.

Perhaps my point is being missed. An SR 71 and a U 2 is needed only if they have to dodge missiles. The US has an open sky policy as long as you follow FAA rules.

That and airliners make cod recon platforms. Why spend the money to develop a complex airframe?


 

Quote from: Raptor on February 23, 2023, 08:51:13 PMPerhaps my point is being missed. An SR 71 and a U 2 is needed only if they have to dodge missiles. The US has an open sky policy as long as you follow FAA rules.

That and airliners make cod recon platforms. Why spend the money to develop a complex airframe?


 

Interesting.  And when it comes to defeating missiles, 150 - 250 civilian passengers onboard are a lot more effective than chaff, flares or ECM.

Quote from: Raptor on February 23, 2023, 08:51:13 PMPerhaps my point is being missed. An SR 71 and a U 2 is needed only if they have to dodge missiles. The US has an open sky policy as long as you follow FAA rules.

That and airliners make cod recon platforms. Why spend the money to develop a complex airframe?


 

And my point is that such a modified airframe is going to get grounded and dismantled by our various security agencies & military shortly after its capabilities are detected.

Oh, and then there's the small problem of restricted airspace around sensitive locations.  Enter it and get to see fighter jets up close and personal, and explain your actions when you land.

I think the thing with the balloons is it's cheap, easy, effective, and they can do a ton of them and be disposable.

Heck, we knew about their balloon and it got the entire country West to East.

Plus, there's a bunch of stuff up there that no one pays attention to, so it's easy to slip "under the radar".

How long until there's an anthrax or EMP balloon that we shoot down??

Quote from: JeeperCreeper on February 24, 2023, 11:13:27 AMI think the thing with the balloons is it's cheap, easy, effective, and they can do a ton of them and be disposable.

Heck, we knew about their balloon and it got the entire country West to East.


Plus, there's a bunch of stuff up there that no one pays attention to, so it's easy to slip "under the radar".

How long until there's an anthrax or EMP balloon that we shoot down??

Well, yes, we generally just keep an eye on these things.  This wasn't our first international wandering balloon, it was just the first one the media decided to make a big deal over.  These balloons have been wandering all over the world from various countries for decades. 

Quote from: Anianna on February 24, 2023, 12:22:08 PM

Quote from: JeeperCreeper on February 24, 2023, 11:13:27 AMI think the thing with the balloons is it's cheap, easy, effective, and they can do a ton of them and be disposable.

Heck, we knew about their balloon and it got the entire country West to East.


Plus, there's a bunch of stuff up there that no one pays attention to, so it's easy to slip "under the radar".

How long until there's an anthrax or EMP balloon that we shoot down??

Well, yes, we generally just keep an eye on these things.  This wasn't our first international wandering balloon, it was just the first one the media decided to make a big deal over.  These balloons have been wandering all over the world from various countries for decades. 

The US spied on Merkels cell phone and it didn't damage diplomatic relationships on a long term basis. Denmark helped the US in spying on Germany, Germany itself supposedly helped the US spying on other EU leaders. So I'm not sure why everyone is surprised on China spying (if that even was a spying attempt) on the US. :smiley_shrug:

If they really want to launch something all they need is something similar to the club k missile system.

This selfie above China's balloon was taken over Missouri.  (https://www.npr.org/2023/02/23/1159007203/selfie-china-balloon-photo)

(https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2023/02/23/7644960_slide-15d3d3379d61a36603a4829b69855ebd11c0fc8b-s1300-c85.webp)

Airborne Lasers would be the preferred method. Someone said it outloud. Lt. Col Tony Schaffer ret. [after UFoZS did of course]

https://youtu.be/pBp6YuTQ0q4?t=249

Quote from: MacWa77ace on February 27, 2023, 11:33:15 AMAirborne Lasers would be the preferred method. Someone said it outloud. Lt. Col Tony Schaffer ret. [after UFoZS did of course]

We never get the credit for our good ideas.   :tickedoff:

Quote from: NT2C on February 27, 2023, 03:56:36 PM

Quote from: MacWa77ace on February 27, 2023, 11:33:15 AMAirborne Lasers would be the preferred method. Someone said it outloud. Lt. Col Tony Schaffer ret. [after UFoZS did of course]

We never get the credit for our good ideas.   :tickedoff:

I've gotten used to that. I have a good idea, someone else takes the credit for it.

It's my high school Science class all over again. :gonk:

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 27, 2023, 03:59:48 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 27, 2023, 03:56:36 PM

Quote from: MacWa77ace on February 27, 2023, 11:33:15 AMAirborne Lasers would be the preferred method. Someone said it outloud. Lt. Col Tony Schaffer ret. [after UFoZS did of course]

We never get the credit for our good ideas.  :tickedoff:

I've gotten used to that. I have a good idea, someone else takes the credit for it.

It's my high school Science class all over again. :gonk:

This has unlocked a partial memory.  Wasn't there a show about some agency or something and they always watched the news broadcasts of whatever case they had solved to see if they got any credit, but they never did?  Like, that was an ongoing theme of the show?

Quote from: Anianna on February 27, 2023, 07:16:42 PM

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 27, 2023, 03:59:48 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 27, 2023, 03:56:36 PM

Quote from: MacWa77ace on February 27, 2023, 11:33:15 AMAirborne Lasers would be the preferred method. Someone said it outloud. Lt. Col Tony Schaffer ret. [after UFoZS did of course]

We never get the credit for our good ideas.  :tickedoff:

I've gotten used to that. I have a good idea, someone else takes the credit for it.

It's my high school Science class all over again. :gonk:

This has unlocked a partial memory.  Wasn't there a show about some agency or something and they always watched the news broadcasts of whatever case they had solved to see if they got any credit, but they never did?  Like, that was an ongoing theme of the show?

A-Team?

Quote from: Anianna on February 27, 2023, 07:16:42 PM

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 27, 2023, 03:59:48 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 27, 2023, 03:56:36 PM

Quote from: MacWa77ace on February 27, 2023, 11:33:15 AMAirborne Lasers would be the preferred method. Someone said it outloud. Lt. Col Tony Schaffer ret. [after UFoZS did of course]

We never get the credit for our good ideas.  :tickedoff:

I've gotten used to that. I have a good idea, someone else takes the credit for it.

It's my high school Science class all over again. :gonk:

This has unlocked a partial memory.  Wasn't there a show about some agency or something and they always watched the news broadcasts of whatever case they had solved to see if they got any credit, but they never did?  Like, that was an ongoing theme of the show?

Sounds like something from that 80's show "Riptide".

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 27, 2023, 07:42:29 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 27, 2023, 07:16:42 PM

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 27, 2023, 03:59:48 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 27, 2023, 03:56:36 PM

Quote from: MacWa77ace on February 27, 2023, 11:33:15 AMAirborne Lasers would be the preferred method. Someone said it outloud. Lt. Col Tony Schaffer ret. [after UFoZS did of course]

We never get the credit for our good ideas.  :tickedoff:

I've gotten used to that. I have a good idea, someone else takes the credit for it.

It's my high school Science class all over again. :gonk:

This has unlocked a partial memory.  Wasn't there a show about some agency or something and they always watched the news broadcasts of whatever case they had solved to see if they got any credit, but they never did?  Like, that was an ongoing theme of the show?

Sounds like something from that 80's show "Riptide".

I always had to chuckle at "Mimi".  That was my step-mother's nickname.

That show had one of the most memorable exchanges of any TV show I watch.  Talking to John Austin playing the character of Baxter Bernard, world's richest man, who just gave them his personal credit card to cover expenses:

Them: "Baxter Bernard Card?  Why's it blue?"

Him: "Because the sky's the limit!"

Which turns out to be true because later in the episode Mimi breaks down and they need a helo quick, so they use it to buy a brand new Bell Jet Ranger (about $2,000,000 back then)

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 27, 2023, 03:59:48 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 27, 2023, 03:56:36 PM

Quote from: MacWa77ace on February 27, 2023, 11:33:15 AMAirborne Lasers would be the preferred method. Someone said it outloud. Lt. Col Tony Schaffer ret. [after UFoZS did of course]

We never get the credit for our good ideas.  :tickedoff:

I've gotten used to that. I have a good idea, someone else takes the credit for it.

It's my high school Science class all over again. :gonk:

Reminds me of third grade when I (true story) told Mrs. Miller that it couldn't be a coincidence that the east coast of South America fit almost perfectly into the west coast of Africa.  I said maybe they were once part of the same continent.  Her response: "That's the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard, Mr. Havoc.  Continents don't just float across oceans!  Now sit down and not another silly notion from you!"

Maybe if I had thought to call the joined contient "Pangea" I could have collected my Nobel Prize at age eight and told batty old Mrs. Miller to go fuck herself and stop squashing her students' out of the box thinking.  Not that I'm at all still bitter about it after all these years.  No siree ...  :rolleyes1:

Every time I hear the name "Mimi", I think of the lady from "The Drew Carey Show".

You know, the one that looks like she applies her makeup with a shovel.

Quote from: NT2C on February 27, 2023, 07:24:05 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 27, 2023, 07:16:42 PM

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 27, 2023, 03:59:48 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 27, 2023, 03:56:36 PM

Quote from: MacWa77ace on February 27, 2023, 11:33:15 AMAirborne Lasers would be the preferred method. Someone said it outloud. Lt. Col Tony Schaffer ret. [after UFoZS did of course]

We never get the credit for our good ideas.  :tickedoff:

I've gotten used to that. I have a good idea, someone else takes the credit for it.

It's my high school Science class all over again. :gonk:

This has unlocked a partial memory.  Wasn't there a show about some agency or something and they always watched the news broadcasts of whatever case they had solved to see if they got any credit, but they never did?  Like, that was an ongoing theme of the show?

A-Team?

I do remember something like that on A-Team, but I don't remember it being a continuous theme.  I think there was something more recent.  Did they do that in Stitchers, maybe?  My memory sucks.

ETA:  Actually, I don't think Stitchers makes sense because they were a super secret agency.  Maybe Criminal Minds?

Quote from: Anianna on February 27, 2023, 09:55:46 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 27, 2023, 07:24:05 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 27, 2023, 07:16:42 PM

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 27, 2023, 03:59:48 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 27, 2023, 03:56:36 PM

Quote from: MacWa77ace on February 27, 2023, 11:33:15 AMAirborne Lasers would be the preferred method. Someone said it outloud. Lt. Col Tony Schaffer ret. [after UFoZS did of course]

We never get the credit for our good ideas.  :tickedoff:

I've gotten used to that. I have a good idea, someone else takes the credit for it.

It's my high school Science class all over again. :gonk:

This has unlocked a partial memory.  Wasn't there a show about some agency or something and they always watched the news broadcasts of whatever case they had solved to see if they got any credit, but they never did?  Like, that was an ongoing theme of the show?

A-Team?

I do remember something like that on A-Team, but I don't remember it being a continuous theme.  I think there was something more recent.  Did they do that in Stitchers, maybe?  My memory sucks.

ETA:  Actually, I don't think Stitchers makes sense because they were a super secret agency.  Maybe Criminal Minds?

Chuck.

Quote from: NT2C on February 27, 2023, 10:01:13 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 27, 2023, 09:55:46 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 27, 2023, 07:24:05 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 27, 2023, 07:16:42 PM

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 27, 2023, 03:59:48 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 27, 2023, 03:56:36 PM

Quote from: MacWa77ace on February 27, 2023, 11:33:15 AMAirborne Lasers would be the preferred method. Someone said it outloud. Lt. Col Tony Schaffer ret. [after UFoZS did of course]

We never get the credit for our good ideas.  :tickedoff:

I've gotten used to that. I have a good idea, someone else takes the credit for it.

It's my high school Science class all over again. :gonk:

This has unlocked a partial memory.  Wasn't there a show about some agency or something and they always watched the news broadcasts of whatever case they had solved to see if they got any credit, but they never did?  Like, that was an ongoing theme of the show?

A-Team?

I do remember something like that on A-Team, but I don't remember it being a continuous theme.  I think there was something more recent.  Did they do that in Stitchers, maybe?  My memory sucks.

ETA:  Actually, I don't think Stitchers makes sense because they were a super secret agency.  Maybe Criminal Minds?

Chuck.

The Kingsman maybe?  Harry Hart (Colin Firth) has an entire wall of newspaper articles on the wall in his house, one for each day that he did something important that never made it into the news.

Quote from: NT2C on February 27, 2023, 10:01:13 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 27, 2023, 09:55:46 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 27, 2023, 07:24:05 PM

Quote from: Anianna on February 27, 2023, 07:16:42 PM

Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on February 27, 2023, 03:59:48 PM

Quote from: NT2C on February 27, 2023, 03:56:36 PM

Quote from: MacWa77ace on February 27, 2023, 11:33:15 AMAirborne Lasers would be the preferred method. Someone said it outloud. Lt. Col Tony Schaffer ret. [after UFoZS did of course]

We never get the credit for our good ideas.  :tickedoff:

I've gotten used to that. I have a good idea, someone else takes the credit for it.

It's my high school Science class all over again. :gonk:

This has unlocked a partial memory.  Wasn't there a show about some agency or something and they always watched the news broadcasts of whatever case they had solved to see if they got any credit, but they never did?  Like, that was an ongoing theme of the show?

A-Team?

I do remember something like that on A-Team, but I don't remember it being a continuous theme.  I think there was something more recent.  Did they do that in Stitchers, maybe?  My memory sucks.

ETA:  Actually, I don't think Stitchers makes sense because they were a super secret agency.  Maybe Criminal Minds?

Chuck.

Maybe?  I used to love that show, but I don't remember a whole lot about it.  May be time for a rewatch.