Airguns chat! Started as PCP airguns, now all welcome!

[EBuff75]

Bought a Crossman 760 years ago after my old 2100 gave up the ghost.  Have been using the 760 for pest control over the years, but sometimes required follow up shots to finish the job.

Recently acquired a Gamo Wildcat .22.  Fantastic for the money imo, it's accurate and powerful.  Tree rats and garden munchers stand no chance...  OSOK (head shot) on a whistle pig a few weeks ago.  Would recommend if needing a basic accurate varmint gun.

NapalmMan67, it's interesting to me that you went from a 2100 to the 760 - that seems like a significant step backwards!  My 2nd BB gun was a 760 (those things were ubiquitous back in the 80's), which I shot until the seals wore out.  Back then there wasn't any internet for me to be able to buy replacement parts, so it went into the garbage.  I've got several generations of them now (which I've purchased recently for nostalgia purposes) plus a 2100, and a couple of break-barrel rifles (Crosman Nitro Venom in .177 and a Crosman Redtail in .22).  Can't really shoot any of them where I live right now, so the best I can do is to do some plinking in my basement using a BB/pellet trap.
 
I still have my first ever BB gun, a Daisy which looks the same the Red Ryder, but without the Red Ryder branding on it.  It's in terrible condition (stored in my parent's garage for decades), but could definitely be restored if I wanted to put the effort in. 
 
I also have an oddball, a Daisy Powerline 814 Sporter, which sort of mimics the look of the Mini 14 with a folding stock.  I bought it as a teenager to replace the 760 when it died.  Only thing missing after all these years is part of the rear peep site, which doesn't really matter much anyway.  It still works, but even new it was only good for about 400fps. 

Ah, memories...   

[MacWa77ace]

Airguns not being firearms, you don't have to worry about any ordinances regarding discharging firearms within city limits to clear vermin. Also in most cases overpenetration, ricochets and tree shot misses are less of an issue than with 22 cartridges.

We have an Iguana invation in my AO, and I've seen critter control along the turnpike a couple of times terminating those suckers with airguns. Last Friday on my way home there was this one stretch were every 20yds there was another Iguana. LOL, as I was driving by I was imagining walking along the side of the highway popping heads with my Benji, but then immediately thought, that's got to be like a 100lbs of lizard, would I just leave them there or put 'em in a trash can for removal? Then I thought about having to pump that Benji up that many times and the fantasy crashed. 

You guys sub Ted's Holdover on YT right?

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

I've watched a few videos, but I'm not subbed yet.

There's another guy I've watched "EdgunLeshy" and the guy running the channel is hilarious. He'll get the occasional anti-hunter troll and he'll just rip into them.

I think he's sponsored by a Russian airgun company, which probably explains why he only ever uses a certain brand. The air guns he uses are pretty interesting, though.

[NapalmMan67]

Bought a Crossman 760 years ago after my old 2100 gave up the ghost.  Have been using the 760 for pest control over the years, but sometimes required follow up shots to finish the job.

Recently acquired a Gamo Wildcat .22.  Fantastic for the money imo, it's accurate and powerful.  Tree rats and garden munchers stand no chance...  OSOK (head shot) on a whistle pig a few weeks ago.  Would recommend if needing a basic accurate varmint gun.

NapalmMan67, it's interesting to me that you went from a 2100 to the 760 - that seems like a significant step backwards!  My 2nd BB gun was a 760 (those things were ubiquitous back in the 80's), which I shot until the seals wore out.  Back then there wasn't any internet for me to be able to buy replacement parts, so it went into the garbage.  I've got several generations of them now (which I've purchased recently for nostalgia purposes) plus a 2100, and a couple of break-barrel rifles (Crosman Nitro Venom in .177 and a Crosman Redtail in .22).  Can't really shoot any of them where I live right now, so the best I can do is to do some plinking in my basement using a BB/pellet trap.
 
I still have my first ever BB gun, a Daisy which looks the same the Red Ryder, but without the Red Ryder branding on it.  It's in terrible condition (stored in my parent's garage for decades), but could definitely be restored if I wanted to put the effort in. 
 
I also have an oddball, a Daisy Powerline 814 Sporter, which sort of mimics the look of the Mini 14 with a folding stock.  I bought it as a teenager to replace the 760 when it died.  Only thing missing after all these years is part of the rear peep site, which doesn't really matter much anyway.  It still works, but even new it was only good for about 400fps. 

Ah, memories...    

Yes, I would have much preferred another 2100.  BUT, 12 or 13ish years ago when I bought the 760, I was unwilling to add an additional $20.00-30.00 to a $45.00 air gun...  see next comment on macwa77s quote.

Airguns not being firearms, you don't have to worry about any ordinances regarding discharging firearms within city limits to clear vermin. Also in most cases overpenetration, ricochets and tree shot misses are less of an issue than with 22 cartridges.

You guys sub Ted's Holdover on YT right? 

In my glorious state, an air gun with a projectile diameter of .18 or greater, or any air gun that discharges projectiles above 700fps is considered a firearm.  Have to fill out a 4473, pay the $20-30.00 transfer fee and 24 hour waiting period.  So, there's that.

Never heard of Ted Holdover.


.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

Here in Texas airguns aren't really regulated at all.

You go into whatever store sells them, pick the one you want, pay for it and walk out with it. Only thing the stores require is you be at least 18 and have a valid ID or driver's license to purchase.

No forms to fill out, no background checks, nothing.

[MacWa77ace]

In my glorious state, an air gun with a projectile diameter of .18 or greater, or any air gun that discharges projectiles above 700fps is considered a firearm.  Have to fill out a 4473, pay the $20-30.00 transfer fee and 24 hour waiting period.  So, there's that.

Never heard of Ted Holdover.


.

Wow, that sucks, I'd have to read the specifics on that. Because the regulation could be on air rifles and not redifining them as firearms which would really be hard to do legally since lawyers love to argue definitions and terms.  I supposed they redefined the word 'fire' to make it include 'air' to get that to pass. Firearms have nothing to do with caliber, its all in the 'fire' part of that word. But if your local ordinance says firearms discharged within the city are illegal, then airguns,  and Laser guns aren't firearms either. Except in your state. 

Ted's  Channel on YT https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNqIq439XbEIeJhFJca2J-g

[superduder]

I just finished modifying a Crosman 1322 for a friends birthday present.
He has loads of "real guns", but never owned a pellet gun.
I added (same setup as mine)
18inch barrel, barrel band, new front sight,and a bolt to replace the roll pin in the pump arm. "Big boy kit from pyramid air"
the Crosman stock, the zip tie mod, and 22lr case mod/trigger tuning (pics to come).
With the longer barrel, and stock, they're more accurate, and pull better fps
than with the regular 9in barrel with the same amount of pumps.
I also put the stock, 22lr case mod, 18in barrel, and zip tie mod on my 2240,
it's good for jackrabbits out to 30yds my 1322 (modded) 25-40yds (25pumps).
Each of these cost less than $200 all together.
Also I DID have a silencer for my 2240, bought from "Buck Rail" and it worked extremely well, until my rifle got dropped...
And by then they had stopped making them (fear of the alphabet is my best guess.)
but I would definitely buy another three two for me and one for previously mentioned friend, if they would make them again.

Again articles possible in case anyone else wanted to mod one themselves.
Jay

[NT2C]

In my glorious state, an air gun with a projectile diameter of .18 or greater, or any air gun that discharges projectiles above 700fps is considered a firearm.  Have to fill out a 4473, pay the $20-30.00 transfer fee and 24 hour waiting period.  So, there's that.

Never heard of Ted Holdover.


.

Wait, what? 

While I have no trouble believing there are cities, counties, even states and countries where airguns, either as a whole or just models above a certain line, are considered firearms, I'm having a bit of trouble with the 4473 part.  That's a federal form.  What the hell do they do with it?  The feds don't consider it a firearm so there's no need to fill out federal paperwork to buy one, just like there's no need to enter the sale into an FFL's logbook.  BATFE isn't going to give a damn about the sale.

[yonderstone]

I really enjoy my Benjamin Titan GP. A single shot .22 pellet gun using a nitrogen piston has a ridiculously long life span, is extremely quiet, and accurate like a laser beam for about 20-30 meters using even a half decent optic.


Mine has killed more small game than all of my other weapons combined.


Ammo availability is fantastic even during times like these, and the penetration is really impressive, even if they don't quite perform at the same velocities that are advertised.


Not a bad thing to have around when zombies come.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

What's y'alls opinion of the Ruger .22 pellet rifles ?

I've found a couple at the local Walmart for about 150 and they seem to be a good choice for an entry level .22 airgun.

I may pick one up soon since I've never owned a .22 pellet rifle and I really don't want to spend a whole lot of money on something that'll primarily live in my closet or next to my bookshelf with my Beeman Silver Bear.

[MacWa77ace]

What's y'alls opinion of the Ruger .22 pellet rifles ?

I've found a couple at the local Walmart for about 150 and they seem to be a good choice for an entry level .22 airgun.

I may pick one up soon since I've never owned a .22 pellet rifle and I really don't want to spend a whole lot of money on something that'll primarily live in my closet or next to my bookshelf with my Beeman Silver Bear.

Is it nitro piston or spring piston? I have the Ruger Airhawk .177 which is spring piston and don't really like the spring action on the break barrels. I imagine the .22 version would have a heavier spring.
Its a quality air rifle though. I never got around to getting a nitro piston break barrel to compare but was told it has a better recoil and barrel harmonics and is quieter. If its a nitro piston go for it. If its spring piston...

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

What's y'alls opinion of the Ruger .22 pellet rifles ?

I've found a couple at the local Walmart for about 150 and they seem to be a good choice for an entry level .22 airgun.

I may pick one up soon since I've never owned a .22 pellet rifle and I really don't want to spend a whole lot of money on something that'll primarily live in my closet or next to my bookshelf with my Beeman Silver Bear.

Is it nitro piston or spring piston? I have the Ruger Airhawk .177 which is spring piston and don't really like the spring action on the break barrels. I imagine the .22 version would have a heavier spring.
Its a quality air rifle though. I never got around to getting a nitro piston break barrel to compare but was told it has a better recoil and barrel harmonics and is quieter. If its a nitro piston go for it. If its spring piston...

I'm actually not entirely sure on that. I think it may be a nitro piston, but I'll have to check the box the next time I'm at Walmart.

[RickOShea]

TFB - [SHOT 2022] The Umarex Primal 20 – A 20-Gauge Slug Airgun


Today at SHOT 2022's Industry Day at the Range, Umarex unveiled their brand new Primal 20. Airguns have been carving themselves a niche in the hunting market and Umarex is one of the big names in that area. Their newest offering is a 20-gauge slug firing airgun.

The Umarex Primal 20 has an onboard 4,000 PSI air tank, that pushes a 20-gauge 395-grain slug to 700fps at the muzzle. In other words, you're getting a whopping 430 foot-pounds of force. That is more than enough to take deer or similar sized critters. The staff at the booth told me they had successfully hunted a Red Deer with the Primal 20, at a range of about 65 yards.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

When a PCP airgun is chambered in something like .357 cal, are the projectiles the same as on a real .357 or are they different ?

Like could you take Hornady .357 projectiles and run them in an airgun chambered in .357 or would that not work ?

[majorhavoc]

The Umarex Primal 20 has an onboard 4,000 PSI air tank, that pushes a 20-gauge 395-grain slug to 700fps at the muzzle. In other words, you're getting a whopping 430 foot-pounds of force.

When a PCP airgun is chambered in something like .357 cal, are the projectiles the same as on a real .357 or are they different ?

Like could you take Hornady .357 projectiles and run them in an airgun chambered in .357 or would that not work ?

Airgun pellets typically have a conical skirt at the trailing end.  I imagine to increase the surface area for the pressurized air to push against and perhaps for a bit of extra stability, but I don't really know for sure.  But that's what pellets I've seen always look like.  But I'm only familiar with pellets up to .25 caliber.  Maybe something changes at the higher airgun calibers.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

I was thinking the same thing, majorhavoc.

Some of the 22 cal pellets I've seen don't have the little skirt, but they do have what I guess is a rim that acts as a seal in the barrel. I figure larger caliber pellets would have something similar to that or the skirt.

[MacWa77ace]

When a PCP airgun is chambered in something like .357 cal, are the projectiles the same as on a real .357 or are they different ?

Like could you take Hornady .357 projectiles and run them in an airgun chambered in .357 or would that not work ?

They are designed differently and are sometimes lighter, not jacketed, and therefor sometimes less expensive than an equivalent box of .357 reloads. But not always?!?



Here's 25) airgun Pellets .357 for $1.20 / pellet. https://www.pyramydair.com/product/benjamin-nosler-ballistic-tip-extreme-air-rifle-bullet-357-cal-145?p=889

Here's a box of 250) .357 reloads for $0.11/ bullet. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018181542?pid=792360

Its not apples to apples but you can see what I mean.

If it works you could save some money. But in the above case of airgun pellets, you could actually buy .357 ammo for less than $1.20/ cartridge. YMMV.

[Optimist]

I really should learn about new airguns. I'm mostly familiar with older ones.

Years of playing paintball as a kid makes me have an aversion to anything with compressed air or co2 tanks. I lived way out in the country, so whenever paintball guns started leaking (a frequent occurrence) it would be months before we could go back to town to visit a scuba shop or paintball field and get them refilled.

Do these PCP airguns not leak very often? How expensive are the air compressors to fill them at home? Does outside air temperature have a big effect on velocity?

[MacWa77ace]

They are like a scuba tank, they don't leak and if they do its an issue. and they better not leak because they are friggin' expensive.

The compressors are expensive because they have to go to 3000 or 3500 psi. So you have to get one that is made for it. Some of the air rifles have detachable tanks. Others are built in. They even have some that have a built in hand pump, but those are more like a VPP [variable pump pneumatic] only you pump it up to 3000psi and then after a few shots you pump again but its only to keep it topped off. Some come with some sort of hand or foot pump.

There are adapters that you can get for scuba tanks to use as a source for refilling your air rifles. So then you only have to fill up your scuba tank and then you're set for a while.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pcp+compressor&atb=v366-1&iax=shopping&ia=shopping

I had an aversion to CO2 also because my first one, a revolver pellet pistol, leaked like crazy right out of the box. I didn't know any better and thought that, that is the way those are. But I have CO2 airsofts now and they don't leak.

[MacWa77ace]

Am I in upsidedown world? 

A little background. I'm a decent shot with air rifles. 

We started getting a rat raiding our 'ground' bird feeder a few weeks ago. The bird feeders are pretty close to any shooting position I'd take, and so I was thinking I couldn't use any of my scoped airguns because I wasn't sure of the 'hold under' with the sight over bore for that distance. And hadn't practiced that close in to learn it. Which I guesstimate at about 20 ft. [I'm going to have to remedy that cause I should know what each rifle will do at ALL distances]

With that in mind I had already decided that if I get a chance at a shot, I'm going to grab my Crosman 66 Powermaster with iron sites.

The opportunity presented itself so I grabbed my Powermaster VPP, put 10 pumps on the pneumatic, and loaded a 177 hunting pellet.

Quietly slid open the sliding glass door and stood in the doorway taking aim while bracing the forgrip against the wall. This would be an easy standing braced shot out to 75 feet normally for me. But SNAP and the rat and squirrels ran away. I MISSED! WTF!

I couldn't see the pellet or where it hit, and I had aimed at the head and my trigger break picture was on target. [that mental image that tells you if the trigger broke when you were on target or off, if you know what i mean] So I didn't know if I went over the rat, which is what I suspected, or under.

A little while later the rat came back, and so I took the exact same stance again, sliding the door open quietly, but this time I aimed lower and at the body, thinking most likely I went over that little noggin the last time. SNAP! and the rat ran off! 

Something must be off on the site. The rear site has an elevation adjustment with 5 notches. It was set on the second to the bottom. That should have worked. The bottom notch being no elevation and hardly any drop over 20 ft at ~600fps with a standard pellet, and a ~16 degree down angle
a=68"
b=240"
α=16



From my experience I figured that there might be a little rise at that distance on the second notch, so instead of aiming at the top of the head I aimed at the center. That's about a 3/8 inch hold under. To take that 2nd notch elevation down. At least that's what I Kentucky calculated. And then I aimed even lower by about an inch on the second shot, and at the body, and still missed.

So I gotta confirm where these shots are landing by setting up a target at 20 ft.



Then yesterday i set up a target at about 20 ft to do a test. And moved the site elevation adjustment to the first notch or lowest elevation setting. [from the second]

Using a standing, unsupported shooting position. Seriously this should be an easy shot for me. Aiming at the center, the shot went ~3.5" low.

This freaked me out. As you can see its not even on the target. [The front site is pretty wide and so it covers to the 7 ring.]
3 shot site in.

There's no other way to adjust this rear site downward to raise the shot placement when you're already on the lowest elevation setting. So I did the illogical thing. I raised the rear site to 3rd elevation position and fired two more shots standing, unsupported, max fps.

And that fixed the site issue.

BUT THAT'S NOT HOW ITS SUPPOSED TO WORK!

The only thing I can think of is that the output on this rifle isn't anywhere close to 600 fps. But it sounds, feels, and any lower FPS and I think I could see the pellet flying.

Are you telling me there is a 4" drop in 20 ft on this rifle using a 177 round nose pellet? NO WAY! I don't think there is a pressure leak as I store it with one pump and no matter how long its been sitting there, there is about 1 pump of pressure if I test fire that and reset it. I store all my VPP's with one pump when not in use.

Or can it be there some sort of rear site air rifle quantum theory I missed? 'Cause if the shot is low, I normally increase the rear site's elevation to raise the POI.

 


Anyhow,

Mr. Rat, I have you nowww.