War in Ukraine

[majorhavoc]

Yet another example of Ukrainian ingenuity, which never ceases to amaze me.  I just can't see how Russia, with it's pondering, Soviet-era military bureaucracy, is ever going to beat this resourceful country.

If it has to, Ukraine will jury rig its way to victory.

In a Ukraine Workshop, the Quest to Build the Perfect Grenade

"War is an economy. It's money," said Graf, a stout, bearded Ukrainian soldier in charge of his unit's drone team. "And if you have a drone for $3,000 and a grenade for $200, and you destroy a tank that costs $3 million, it's very interesting."

[echo83]

Yet another example of Ukrainian ingenuity, which never ceases to amaze me.  I just can't see how Russia, with it's pondering, Soviet-era military bureaucracy, is ever going to beat this resourceful country.

If it has to, Ukraine will jury rig its way to victory.

In a Ukraine Workshop, the Quest to Build the Perfect Grenade

"War is an economy. It's money," said Graf, a stout, bearded Ukrainian soldier in charge of his unit's drone team. "And if you have a drone for $3,000 and a grenade for $200, and you destroy a tank that costs $3 million, it's very interesting."

A pondering bureaucracy that has no way to replace their armored losses rapidly, too. Current production of Russian armor is a fraction of Soviet-era production quotas. 

My brother served in Iraq in 2008, and was beyond frustrated with the ingenuity, simplicity, and diversity of the IEDs there. They ranged from old artillery shells rigged to washing machine timers, to cell phone-activated devices, or the occasional (and dreaded) EFPs. 

In every case, the outcome was similar; a Humvee, or other APC, packed with our best and brightest, being wiped out by an insurgent with access to a wide variety of munitions (practically free) and all the time in the world on his hands. The asymmetry of it all was infuriating.

The difference (and it's a BIG one) is that medical care was absolutely amazing, and the next week, a new Humvee, or other APC would roll down the ramp of a cargo jet, ready to go.

I'm not writing this to compare the Ukrainians to terrorists, just observing that the increase of sophistication coupled with the decrease in cost is incredible. Even over the last 15 years.

[majorhavoc]

Putin: you've picked a fight with an entire nation of McGyvers

Was really hoping to not sound like a broken record on this topic by posting this in Emergency Medical Gear instead. Because it starts off with home-grown CAT tourniquets and the importance of avoiding cheap Chinese knock offs. But then it quickly moves on to DIY tank traps, improvised incendiary weapons, and surprisingly sophisticated body armor.

From there it goes to ingenius field expedient heating systems, periscopes, camouflage netting, sleeping bags, ghilli suits and uniforms.  Even improvised smartphone apps for civil defense and aerial targeting, and an app to help Russian troops defect across Ukrainian lines before they become cannon fodder. All produced by a veritable army of civilian "volunteri".

I finally realized this country is simply unconquerable.  Putin just doesn't realize how utterly f*cked he and his "special military operation" are.  So I'm forced to again post here. 

At first, some of these homemade flak jackets had the metal plates uncovered, with nothing to absorb the shock; a few soldiers wearing them were injured. Quickly, a solution was found: When cut into pieces, transmission belts for grain loaders in the Odesa port turned out to be just the right rubber damper. The metal plate and rubber damper were held together by duct tape, but the ensemble looked surprisingly tidy.

[EBuff75]

Another article about how the war in Ukraine has become a testing ground for Western military equipment and the battlefield ingenuity that Ukraine is displaying.  The bit at the start of the article about the targeting app is a really good example of the sort of things that they're coming up with.  https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/15/politics/ukraine-russia-war-weapons-lab/index.html

[majorhavoc]

Another article about how the war in Ukraine has become a testing ground for Western military equipment and the battlefield ingenuity that Ukraine is displaying.  The bit at the start of the article about the targeting app is a really good example of the sort of things that they're coming up with.  https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/15/politics/ukraine-russia-war-weapons-lab/index.html

Meanwhile, multiple intelligence and military officials told CNN they hoped that creating what the US military terms "attritable" drones – cheap, single-use weapons – has become a top priority for defense contractors.

"I wish we could make a $10,000 one-way attack drone," one of these officials said, wistfully.

If any country on the planet can make that a reality, it would be Ukraine.

[tirls]

Dumb question: Couldn't you just hook up an electronic detonator to a cell or satellite phone and put the entire thing under a commercial drone?
A dji drone costs around 2000 and can automatically follow a target once selected. Wait until the drone is close enough and call the phone.
I watch too many cheap action movies...

[NT2C]

Dumb question: Couldn't you just hook up an electronic detonator to a cell or satellite phone and put the entire thing under a commercial drone?
A dji drone costs around 2000 and can automatically follow a target once selected. Wait until the drone is close enough and call the phone.
I watch too many cheap action movies...

I believe the target needs to have the drone control unit on it.  At least that's how all my drones work.

[tirls]

At least some DJI drones have the option of active tracking via vision recognition. It does need decent contrast though, so probably not a good option.
But at least for stationary objects you could use a preprogrammed flight path, or simply use the camera to navigate.

[EBuff75]

Dumb question: Couldn't you just hook up an electronic detonator to a cell or satellite phone and put the entire thing under a commercial drone?
A dji drone costs around 2000 and can automatically follow a target once selected. Wait until the drone is close enough and call the phone.
I watch too many cheap action movies...

Gotta have a reliable cell signal for that, which can be a bit of an issue in war zones.  This is actually used for IEDs, car bombs, etc., in areas with good coverage.  For an IED, the person setting it up could adjust the position as needed to make sure that there is a signal.  Not really an option when trying to actively maneuver a drone into position.

[NT2C]

Dumb question: Couldn't you just hook up an electronic detonator to a cell or satellite phone and put the entire thing under a commercial drone?
A dji drone costs around 2000 and can automatically follow a target once selected. Wait until the drone is close enough and call the phone.
I watch too many cheap action movies...

Gotta have a reliable cell signal for that, which can be a bit of an issue in war zones.  This is actually used for IEDs, car bombs, etc., in areas with good coverage.  For an IED, the person setting it up could adjust the position as needed to make sure that there is a signal.  Not really an option when trying to actively maneuver a drone into position.

This is as deep as we want to go on this subject.  Any deeper and we can start running into legal difficulties.

[Halfapint]

I think the biggest problem with a suicide drone is payload and speed. A DJI can hold a couple grenades the bigger the payload the slower they are.

The shahed 136 weighs 200kg wirh a 2.5m wing span and can carry up
To a 50kg warhead. You're not gonna get that with a DJI.

The problem with getting something that size flying is that they are not fast and are not quiet. So the tech to use better/quieter motors that are faster. Bur that means a more complicated build process and ups the cost.

Iran has it right, build something cheap with a hundred pounds of TNT in it and send them flying in flocks. You lose a few on no. We'll have them replaced tomorrow.

Electric drones are great in this war but electric motors and batteries are going to be hard to replace.  A slapped together repurposed lawnmower engine? Shit get Briggs and Stratton to make them. We could field thousands if the drones a couple weeks.

[EBuff75]

It's sort of the military equivalent of the "would you rather fight one horse-sized duck, or a hundred duck-sized horses?"  If you have a million dollars to spend on weapons, would you rather have one good weapon for the whole million, or a hundred $10,000 weapons that aren't quite as good?  That's particularly relevant when the only components that you can quickly gather up are on the low end of the spectrum, which realistically only leaves you with the cheaper stuff. 

We tend to over-engineer things in the west, because we have the technology to do so.  In the US we do this even more, because being separated by oceans gives us a buffer against direct military action (other than ballistic weapons).  Making a sophisticated weapon is all well and good, but sometimes simplicity works better, and it almost certainly works faster.  Ukraine is giving a master class in "battlefield expedience" of weapon usage and design.  They don't have the time, the distance, or the technology to make an elegant solution. 

So just build one that works and that is ready right now.

[SCBrian]

A slapped together repurposed lawnmower engine? Shit get Briggs and Stratton to make them. We could field thousands if the drones a couple weeks.

Can you imagine the grass roots effort if this was crowdsourced from the southern US or Midwest?
"Want to help the war in Ukraine?  Got a spare mower laying around?  Read this how-to article... "

[NT2C]

A slapped together repurposed lawnmower engine? Shit get Briggs and Stratton to make them. We could field thousands if the drones a couple weeks.

Can you imagine the grass roots effort if this was crowdsourced from the southern US or Midwest?
"Want to help the war in Ukraine?  Got a spare mower laying around?  Read this how-to article... "

Remember the Flying Tigers of WWII fame?  This would be the Kudzu Air Corps.

[EBuff75]

Well, duh...

Ukraine's tanks "are going to hinder our troops," Sergei told CNN in Russia's capital.

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-1-27-23/h_720b1c26f9557adad3ef29873220fee9

[majorhavoc]

[Whiney-voiced Russian official] Darn it West, can't you see we're trying to slaughter these people? It's annoying enough that they defending themselves without you helping them.  So just stop it.

[MacWa77ace]

A U

I think the biggest problem with a suicide drone is payload and speed. A DJI can hold a couple grenades the bigger the payload the slower they are.

The shahed 136 weighs 200kg wirh a 2.5m wing span and can carry up
To a 50kg warhead. You're not gonna get that with a DJI.

The problem with getting something that size flying is that they are not fast and are not quiet. So the tech to use better/quieter motors that are faster. Bur that means a more complicated build process and ups the cost.

Iran has it right, build something cheap with a hundred pounds of TNT in it and send them flying in flocks. You lose a few on no. We'll have them replaced tomorrow.

Electric drones are great in this war but electric motors and batteries are going to be hard to replace.  A slapped together repurposed lawnmower engine? Shit get Briggs and Stratton to make them. We could field thousands if the drones a couple weeks.

A UCAV, Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicle. I can't find the one I'm thinking of, but there was/is a design that launches from a disposable tube like a LARS, but is set up like a mortar, and once launched, and turns into a radio controlled airplane. [simplified] It's battery powered with a shaped charge, and a contact fuse. It's guided via remote and there is a camera in the nose with a targeting reticle. You just fly it into what you want to hit.

I have no Idea of the cost per vehicle. More than and ICDEV [improvised commercial drone explosive vehicle]

Nevermind I found it. AeroVironment Switchblade.

https://www.avinc.com/tms/switchblade they don't have prices in their catalog.

[majorhavoc]

Fighting Wagner Like Being in a 'Zombie Movie' Says Ukrainian Soldier

"We were fighting for about 10 hours in a row. And it wasn't like just waves, it was uninterrupted. So it was just like they didn't stop coming."

Their AK-47 rifles became so hot from constant firing, that they had to keep changing them.
...
"Our machine gunner was almost getting crazy, because he was shooting at them. And he said, I know I shot him, but he doesn't fall. And then after some time, when he maybe bleeds out, so he just falls down.  They're climbing above the corpse of their friends, stepping on them."
...
"It looks like it's very, very likely that they are getting some drugs before attack."

[majorhavoc]

You know, it's feel-good news stories like this that just warms the cockles of my heart and restores my faith that there is some decency and moral balance in this world.

As they have done throughout the war, the Russian commanders made some basic mistakes, in this case failing to take into account the terrain — open fields littered with antitank mines — or the strength of the Ukrainian forces, Colonel Dmytrashkivskyi said. Two of Russia's most elite brigades — the 155th and 40th Naval Infantry Brigades — were decimated in Vuhledar.

A Russian marine who fought in Vuhledar told the Russian media outlet 7x7, which is based in the Komi region of Russia, that those who survived the battle were considered deserters. The marine, whose identity the news outlet did not disclose, citing the need to protect his safety, said he was part of the third company of the 155th brigade. After the failed assault, he said, only eight soldiers from his company were left alive.

"It would have been better if I had been captured and never returned," he said.

[Halfapint]

I love Russian people, honestly I had a plan to move to Russia and get like 200-500 acres of land. And just go away. The wife was even down for it.

Bur how fucking stupid are they? It's not difficult to find videos if thousands if theirs killed. And for what? I mean I suppose Putin is doing this because he wants to kill an entire generation... why? Because younger Russians are/were sick of him. Best way to stay in power and not hav an uprising kill the younger generation or run them out if the country.

I watched clips that totaled probably 5 hours if 5000ish Russian troops, armor, APC, etc get wiped out a week ago. Imagine if 5k US, British, German, etc troops were killed in a couple days. Just imagine.