Knife Chat: Slicing to the meat of all things sharp

[NT2C]

Kershaw's 'budget' line of knives are all made in China. I'm not sure the pricing cutoff but I think anything below $55 retail you can start checking the 'made in' info.

The Misdirect I got recently is one of those. Nice knife though for $30.

China has some utter crap stuff, but when they really want to they can make exquisite knives.  Quite a few Chinese makers are now tiring of being the "generic" producer for some of the big names and are starting to make their own brands known and respected.  That's what happened with the flashlight company Sofirn.

[Moab]

I think most of Civivi's stuff is made in China.

Most of the knives I own are made in China with a few being made in the US or Taiwan.

I bought a civivi praxis last year. It's .12 thick. But the grind was such, and the blade is quite large, that it doesn't feel very robust. It's rather thin. Like if you got it stuck in something it could easily snap the blade. I got it on sale for like $37. So it wasn't to bad.

It was also my first flipper. Which while opening very fast with only a slight flip of the wrist. I found I had to make a slight additional adjustment to get it firmly in my grip after opening. Which kind of negates the quick opening.

After practicing with my knock off chris reeves sebenza (which is a better knife imho), I can open it via thumb stud just as fast. And my grip is firmly on the knife as soon as its open. It's also quiet. The flipper emits an audible click when the blade opens.

Not a bad knife. Just some observations. I don't think I'll be purchasing anymore flippers though.

Edit - The spine is ground down thin as well. Which can be clearly seen in pics. So my bad. But that makes it even more likely to break. I think there is only one thin part of the blade that is actually .12.

[majorhavoc]

I think most of Civivi's stuff is made in China.

Most of the knives I own are made in China with a few being made in the US or Taiwan.

I bought a civivi praxis last year. 
...
It was also my first flipper. Which while opening very fast with only a slight flip of the wrist. I found I had to make a slight additional adjustment to get it firmly in my grip after opening. Which kind of negates the quick opening.

Yeah, but just presenting an open blade so quickly will freeze your adversary - and buy you those few extra milliseconds to adjust your grip. So you'll be fully prepared when he unwisely elects to test you and your manly blade ... 

[MacWa77ace]

yeah, that FFFLick! sound is the NEW pump shotgun rack.

[Moab]

I think most of Civivi's stuff is made in China.

Most of the knives I own are made in China with a few being made in the US or Taiwan.

I bought a civivi praxis last year.
...
It was also my first flipper. Which while opening very fast with only a slight flip of the wrist. I found I had to make a slight additional adjustment to get it firmly in my grip after opening. Which kind of negates the quick opening.

Yeah, but just presenting an open blade so quickly will freeze your adversary - and buy you those few extra milliseconds to adjust your grip. So you'll be fully prepared when he unwisely elects to test you and your manly blade ... 

Lol.

I know what you mean tho. But in my neck of the woods I see it as a last second, up close tool. That is only a last resort. Meaning this person is going to kill, maim or incapacitate me in the next second.

Being able to deploy a knife behind my thigh or back. Without anyone noticing. And not having to adjust my grip in that adrenaline filled moment. Seems valuable. And faster.

It's like a gun. In that brandishing it to scare someone away is a poor tactic. You need to keep that hidden until the moment you need to actually defend yourself. By shooting someone. Likewise, I don't want to show someone a defensive tool like a knife. Until I'm ready to use it.

I won't go into the myriad reasons you would want to follow the above strategy. But it seems reasonable based on current self defense teachings.

I'm also honest enough to admit that in an adrenaline fueled, heat of the moment, adjusting my grip on the handle of a knife could result in me dropping it altogether.

When I open my flipper. My finger tips are on the knife handle. In order to access the flipper knob on the spine of the knife. My hand is not grasping the handle/knife. (Like it does with a stud ooening) After it opens. I have to then turn the handle slightly and grasp my hand around it.

That is alot of tactile movement you need to perform while not looking at your blade.

I've been in fights. It's hard enough to coordinate foot movement, making a fist, bringing your arms up to defend, throwing a punch, head movement. And those are all simple body movements. Getting your fingers to adjust on an object like a knife has to be infinitely harder.

I've just recently started thinking seriously about carrying a knife for self defense. Because my environment has changed. And I don't think I would carry a pistol on the daily.

Mainly because its to hot for alot of cover clothing here. And I am not built with a thin waist. I could start working with an elastic waistband or armpit holster.

But a simple folding knife is what I see as realistic right now. And its better than nothing. Which I've been carrying for many years - nothing. Lol.

I've only studied knife fighting in a cursory fashion. But everything I've seen is based on fast, up close, last second movement. And obviously why fixed blades are preferable.

I'm looking at those as well. I think at this point I would prefer a fixed blade, horizontal carry, on a belt. Even at the short, 2 inches of blade, I am allowed by law. But I so seldom wear pants with a belt here. I wear pants only 3 or 4 months out of the year.

So I've stuck with a folder at this point. It is not the holy grail of tactical defense. I admit. But its better than nothing. I've gotten to the point now that I feel sort of naked if I end up at the store without it.

(Which is the riskiest place in town I go. Two different grocery stores in a fairly wrong part of town. One has the best price on meat and vegetables. The other on general groceries. If I could go someplace else I would.)

Who knows. Maybe I'll get my ccw and start carrying a pistol in an elastic holster. And eventually feel like I'm naked without it.

Problem is you have to register one pistol for your ccw license. You're only allowed to carry that one. And all of my pistols came into the state prior to any registration laws. So I'd like to keep them off the books. Which means I'd have to buy a new pistol. And right now, with my wife as sick as she is (bedridden), I can't afford a new pistol. And I have a far greater need for a long gun. As I sent all of my ling guns out of state. Some time ago. To avoid all the crazy new gun laws here.

You can build an f'ed up california legal AR. That can then be easily converted back to a normal AR. Should there be a complete breakdown of society. Or an SKS. Or mini 14. The first is better long term. But the last two would be ready, as they are, for home defense. And I firmly believe shotguns are to limited. And to hard to operate in an adreniline filled situation. The above options are far more effective and usable.

But this is knife chat. Not long gun in california chat. Lol!

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

Regarding the Civivi Praxis, I figure as long as the heat treat is good, snapping the blade shouldn't happen unless I really abuse it.

Same goes for any other brand. If the heat treat sucks, it won't matter how thick or thin the blade is. We've seen this quite a few times on Forged in Fire (which doesn't seem to be on History Channel anymore for some reason. I think maybe they moved to their streaming service, which is dumb.).

There've been some blades that are super thick and have crappy heat treatment and subsequently snap in half. And there've been blades that are really thin that have had fantastic heat treatment and survived the harsh tests.

I think blade steel would also play a part in this as well.

[Moab]

I agree. But we are talking much thinner in most of the blade than .12. Like going from 0 at the edge to .12 only high up on the blade and in a tiny few mm area. Which is that timy ridgeline where the two grinds meet near the top.

Here's a pic.

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The large blade and grind make it look like a thick substantial knife. But its only .12 at the ridgeline about a quarter inch from the spine of the blade. The soine is griund down too. As you can see in the pic.

I would guess most of the knife is about half that or .06 of an inch. Quite thin. Especially for that large broad area of a knife. It feels like if you hit a rib or other hard surface it would snap. And snap rather than bent. I also can't tell you why it feels like it woukd snap. It just doesn't feel like bendable metal. But maybe its just the lack of spine. The grind on the soine looks cool. But substantially degrades the thickness at that point.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

I've got a pair of Praxis' and I compared them to a couple other brands I own (a CRKT CEO, a Buck Inertia and an Ontario RAT-1) and the blade thickness is pretty close in thickness to all three.

I think the grind down the spine on the Praxis makes it appear like it's much thinner than it actually is. But I still see how it could snap if hitting bone or something.

Civivi makes a bunch of other models and maybe there's one with a thick enough spine and blade grind that won't snap.

[NT2C]

When I open my flipper. My finger tips are on the knife handle. In order to access the flipper knob on the spine of the knife. My hand is not grasping the handle/knife. (Like it does with a stud ooening) After it opens. I have to then turn the handle slightly and grasp my hand around it.

I'm having trouble visualizing the issue here.  With either method when I do it I only have a partial grip on the knife because I have to keep my fingers out of the blade path so it can pivot and open.  The only difference (at least in how I grip it) is possibly the placement of the tip of my index finger.

Flipper:

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Stud:

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Are you and I using different grips? 

[Moab]

I've got a pair of Praxis' and I compared them to a couple other brands I own (a CRKT CEO, a Buck Inertia and an Ontario RAT-1) and the blade thickness is pretty close in thickness to all three.

I think the grind down the spine on the Praxis makes it appear like it's much thinner than it actually is. But I still see how it could snap if hitting bone or something.

Civivi makes a bunch of other models and maybe there's one with a thick enough spine and blade grind that won't snap.

For $37 it was way better than the comparable Spyderco folder I bought. I like the thumb hole opening but the machining was so shitty its sharp in your thumb. Trying to train opening it was not comfortable. If I liked it enough I would pay to have that machined smooth. Its a corner they should not have cut. Unless all of them are like that. Idk.

I'm sure most of the other civivis are not like that. And again, I chose that style of grind. So alot of it is on me.

I'd have to look thru my knife wishlist again. But I still like the stupid little kershaw folder I got free with a bag of dogfood back in the 80s! Lmao! With the exception of the lack of an opener. It just has an old fashioned thumb slit. Its basically a buck folder with a rubber handle. I don't know why more modern foldrrs don't use rubber handles. It NEVER slips in my hand. Has an excellent piint for stabbing. And a large thick soine that goes down at least halfway thru the body of the blade. The cutting angle of the edge is nice. Its a perfect weight. Not to heavy. Not to light. So much to like. But the lack of easy opening kills it.

That al mar you oosted in on my list. As is the gerber fast draw. I have other automatics and full tangs.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

I've seen some aftermarket thumbstuds on Amazon for like 15 or 20 bucks that'll let you easily open a knife like Kershaw you mentioned, Moab. I've seen folks use them on flipper only knives too.

I had a Gerber Gator folder when I was a kid and it had a nice rubber handle. Not sure what happened to it, but I have a feeling one of my brothers borrowed it without asking me and either lost it or forgot to give it back.

I'd like to get another one, but I probably wouldn't carry it. It'd be more of a nostalgia buy than something I'd actually use.

[MacWa77ace]

When I open my flipper. My finger tips are on the knife handle. In order to access the flipper knob on the spine of the knife. My hand is not grasping the handle/knife. (Like it does with a stud ooening) After it opens. I have to then turn the handle slightly and grasp my hand around it.

I'm having trouble visualizing the issue here.  With either method when I do it I only have a partial grip on the knife because I have to keep my fingers out of the blade path so it can pivot and open.  The only difference (at least in how I grip it) is possibly the placement of the tip of my index finger.



You cannot view this attachment.You cannot view this attachment.

Are you and I using different grips? 

This is the same thing I was talking about when I got my Zero Tolerance 0452CF flipper. The flipper opening action leaves your thumb on the side of the knife when the blade locks, and your index finger on the spine. So you have to turn it/adjust it in your hand after deploying the blade.

But for some reason with the thumbstud assisted open, when you push the stud your index finger is already in the right position and your thumb follows the blade and ends up mostly in place for a good grip, with little to no adjustments. Or I'm subconsciously making the adjustment simultaneously as the assisted open blade locks. At least in my experience. YMMV. i've got 14-16 years practicing with the thumbstuds, and only got my 'real' EDC flipper last year.

You can see in your photos that on the flipper your index finger is on the spine and is still back there when the blade locks. so you have to move it around to the side of the knife, rotate the knife in your hand and then get your thumb in the right position also.


This is my onehanded deploy and 2 different onehanded un-deploy methods on a thumbstud, framelock, assisted open.

[NT2C]

I'm pretty sure I need this and that it would make a nice birthday gift.  My birthday is at the end of August. 

Terrain 365 Invictus Pocket Rocket Mini-Balisong Black DLC Terravantium Blade

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

That's a nice knife.

Never been a fan of balisongs (mostly because I was never able to do any of the fancy flipping tricks), but that's a nice looking one.

[NT2C]

That's a nice knife.

Never been a fan of balisongs (mostly because I was never able to do any of the fancy flipping tricks), but that's a nice looking one.

Years ago in NYC I found a nice one in the window of the Hoffritz Cutlery store in Penn Station in NYC.  Butterfly knives were and still are quite illegal in NYC so I really don't know how they managed to have one in the showroom window in such a public location but for $25 (in 1980ish money) I made it mine and I carried it until my house burned down in '99.  I was never as good as some of the guys you see in SE Asia and Indonesia (never had any training), but I played around with it and got fairly able to keep from cutting anything vital off.  I'm not sure I could manage it today with my arthritis and trigger fingers but damned if I don't want this little guy. 

[tirls]

That's a really pretty knife. Don't make me want a Balisong.

February sounds perfect to gift yourself an early birthday present, August is not that far away.

[majorhavoc]

That's a nice knife.

Never been a fan of balisongs (mostly because I was never able to do any of the fancy flipping tricks), but that's a nice looking one

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

I had a cheapo gas station butterfly knife when I was around 20 and I messed with it maybe a couple times before the mechanism gave out.

Which is actually surprising it took as long as it did because the handles were basically made of pot metal. And not even good pot metal like a Hi-Point is made of.

[NT2C]

...not even good pot metal like a Hi-Point is made of.

 

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

...not even good pot metal like a Hi-Point is made of.

 

In defense of the Hi-Point, at least it'd still work after only a handful of times unlike the gas station balisong.