111 years later, Titanic has claimed 5 more victims

[MacWa77ace]

So, what was their plan if it had gone well then?  There had to be a surface support craft with a crew to recover and open it either way.  I'm also inclined to believe it never surfaced because it had to be equipped with signaling gear for use on the surface and no such signal has been heard.  Only a freaking lunatic would have designed such a craft with no EPIRB (or two) and no flares/dye markers that could be released from inside the craft.

their signaling gear was probably some sort of radio. If there was a power failure due to bus connections battery power would not supply a radio. It could have also knocked off its antenna. But the report of the 'banging' coming from under water sort of rules out its on the surface.

I'd think manually triggered explosive bolts and some sort of manually triggered external flare device would be safety equipment in case of power failure when surfaced. Plus some dye. EPRB. All the standard locator stuff but manually triggered from the inside. But with the low profile and high seas, forcing open the hatch would certainly flood the compartment. Then the explorers would be facing the same icy seas as the passengers of the Titanic did 111  years ago.

[majorhavoc]

Well, I suspect this is one of those situations where the would-be rescuers have to pursue cling to increasingly unlikely scenarios. Like: the Titan did somehow manage to surface, and either it's locator beacon somehow did fail or the designers really were criminally stupid and didn't equip their DIY, deep-diving, Playstation-controlled death trap with such emergency gear.

Because, if we're being honest here (and I would love to be proven wrong) that's pretty much the only scenario that could have a happy ending.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

Well, I suspect this is one of those situations where the would-be rescuers have to pursue cling to increasingly unlikely scenarios. Like: the Titan did somehow manage to surface, and either it's locator beacon somehow did fail or the designers really were criminally stupid and didn't equip their DIY, deep-diving, Playstation-controlled death trap with such emergency gear.

Because, if we're being honest here (and I would love to be proven wrong) that's pretty much the only scenario that could have a happy ending.

Given the half-assed design of the Titan, I'm thinking that last part is probably more likely.

Seems to me the CEO figured any idiot could design a submersible and pilot it, decided to cut costs in as many ways as he possibly could and banked on Titanic fans forking over $250k a pop to look at the wreck.

Either he was blissfully unaware of the amount of engineering that goes into designing a craft capable of and the training that's required to make deep ocean dives or he's one of those arrogantly ignorant people who only sees dollar signs and ignored all of the required safety procedures and work needed to be done.

ETA: On the optimistic hand, I'm trying to stay hopeful that the folks on the Titan will be found safe, but on the other pessimistic hand, I'm thinking this will end up less a rescue mission and more closer to a recovery effort.

[majorhavoc]

It doesn't matter anyway as the submersible was built with positive buoyancy and used external weights to to submerge.  The most likely scenario I can come up with is someone forgot to pull the safety pins and they got down there only to find they couldn't jettison the weights and were stuck.

They lost contact an hour and 45 minutes into the mission before they reached bottom. Most likely it was either hull failure or multiple system failures.

Well, CBS news reporter David Pogue shared an account of how OceanGate lost contact with the Titan for 5 hours on an earlier dive to the wreckage site. (And OceanGate killed their internet link during that time so Pogue couldn't tweet about it)

Now, supposedly the protocol is to stop the descent until comms are restored. But on this last dive (and rest assured whatever the outcome, Titan will NEVER dive again), you have 4 high powered, paying customers with extremely forceful personalities pressuring the pilot (who happens to be the company founder and likely the only person who might feel empowered to override protocol) to continue the dive, comms be damned.

Just saying NT2C'S nightmare scenario could play out.  The ballast needs to stay attached all the way the bottom. If there were locking pins that hadn't been removed as they were supposed to be, that only would have been apparent when they were ready to ascend to the surface.

If indeed that's how the ballast system is supposed to work, there's one guy aboard the mother ship right now thinking 1 of 2 things:

1) I did remove the locking pins, didn't I? Or,
2) I hope they never find the Titan, because I totally forgot to remove the locking pins.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

Also, I just remembered there was a book written in 1898 by Morgan Robertson called "Futility" and in it, a ship called the "Titan" went down in almost the exact same way as the Titanic did.

Now, it's a bit of an odd coincidence that the name of the missing submersible and the doomed fictional ship share the same name and both are connected to the Titanic tragedy.

ETA: Not sure if that's coincidental or it was an intentional thing done by OceanGate as a sort of nod to a bit of Titanic lore. Though I'm not sure just how many people have even heard of that little bit of lore.

[EBuff75]

Well, I suspect this is one of those situations where the would-be rescuers have to pursue cling to increasingly unlikely scenarios. Like: the Titan did somehow manage to surface, and either it's locator beacon somehow did fail or the designers really were criminally stupid and didn't equip their DIY, deep-diving, Playstation-controlled death trap with such emergency gear.

Because, if we're being honest here (and I would love to be proven wrong) that's pretty much the only scenario that could have a happy ending.

Given the half-assed design of the Titan, I'm thinking that last part is probably more likely.

Seems to me the CEO figured any idiot could design a submersible and pilot it, decided to cut costs in as many ways as he possibly could and banked on Titanic fans forking over $250k a pop to look at the wreck.

Either he was blissfully unaware of the amount of engineering that goes into designing a craft capable of and the training that's required to make deep ocean dives or he's one of those arrogantly ignorant people who only sees dollar signs and ignored all of the required safety procedures and work needed to be done.

ETA: On the optimistic hand, I'm trying to stay hopeful that the folks on the Titan will be found safe, but on the other pessimistic hand, I'm thinking this will end up less a rescue mission and more closer to a recovery effort.

Don't forget the part where they're literally sealed inside, with no way to open the hatch on their own, which could still mean suffocation, even if they're on the surface:

The Titan has built-in safety systems that help it rise to the surface in case of emergency including sandbags and lead pipes that can be released, as well as an inflatable balloon. The system was designed to work even if everyone on board is unconscious.

That would be the best case scenario, but even then there would not necessarily be any survivors, said Lawrence Brennan, a professor at Fordham University's School of Law.

The Titan's hatch cannot be unlocked from the inside, "so they will have to open the hatch and the bolts from the outside and rescue the people in there.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/outlook-bleak-passengers-titan-despite-massive-rescue-effort-100284298

The more I learn about this thing, the nuttier the design gets...

[Uomo Senza Nome]

Air is running out this morning. So sadly it appears there will be no survivors, unless somebody went full Vertical Limit. Personally, I wouldn't want to be the last man standing in that scenario.

[flybynight]

Air is running out this morning. So sadly it appears there will be no survivors, unless somebody went full Vertical Limit. Personally, I wouldn't want to be the last man standing in that scenario.

From the very start of this debacle. I've believed they were already dead. I think that sub was crushed like a beer can at a frat party right after their last message. I think the banging is just something banging on the Titanic wreck itself. This is what happens when lack of common sense and a large billfold meet

[Uomo Senza Nome]

Air is running out this morning. So sadly it appears there will be no survivors, unless somebody went full Vertical Limit. Personally, I wouldn't want to be the last man standing in that scenario.

From the very start of this debacle. I've believed they were already dead. I think that sub was crushed like a beer can at a frat party right after their last message. I think the banging is just something banging on the Titanic wreck itself. This is what happens when lack of common sense and a large billfold meet

Probably. The thing about the banging was; it wasn't coming from the wreck and allegedly was going on every 30 minutes. But I agree, the submersible likely had hull failure on the way down.

[Uomo Senza Nome]

https://www.news10.com/news/national/rescuers-make-last-desperate-push-as-final-hours-of-oxygen-on-missing-titanic-submersible-tick-down/

The U.S. Coast Guard says debris field has been found near the Titanic during search for submersible

That isn't a good sign.

[majorhavoc]

The debris has been identified as the equipment portion of the Titan submersible's hull. But not the pressure vessel the passengers occupy.

I took that to offer a slim ray of hope but OceanGate just released a statement announcing that all crew are likely dead.  The US Coast Guard is holding a press conference right now.

[Uomo Senza Nome]

Three billionaires killed in a single incident has to be some kind of macabre record. 

[majorhavoc]

USCG says size of the debris field is consistent with a "catastrophic implosion" of the crew compartment. I hope it was very quick, as in instantaneous.  One moment they were there, gazing in wonderment at a fantastical oceanscape, the very next they were in the hereafter, whatever that entails.

I hope they weren't sitting on the bottom, their craft immobilized, as the cumulative stress on the hull slowly built toward that sudden, catastrophic failure.

People die every day, in countless and varied ways. It's weird how it feels so different when it happens in a uniquely spectacular fashion, the details revealed piecemeal as the whole world watches.

Life is just odd.

[flybynight]

U.S. Coast Guard Rear Adm. John Mauger announced at a press conference that five major pieces of debris had been found 1,600 feet from the site of the Titanic Thursday morning on the sea floor, a finding "consistent with the catastrophic loss of the pressure chamber." Mauger said they then notified the families and offered their condolences.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/titanic-missing-submersible-search-passengers-believed-dead-titan-recovery-190229608.html

[NT2C]

I also think, somewhere right now, some poor SOB is having to make the decision regarding how truthful to be with the media and next of kin regarding what is actually discovered. Do you admit you found the submersible, with the crew still alive, but were unable to do anything to help, or do you announce that you regretfully were unable to locate the craft before time ran out?  Maybe even arrange a little accident after the crew is gone that just leaves crushed wreckage for someone to find later.  "It must have happened very quickly; they didn't suffer."

Yeah, there's times I wish I didn't actually think some of the stuff that pops in my head.

[Uomo Senza Nome]

I also think, somewhere right now, some poor SOB is having to make the decision regarding how truthful to be with the media and next of kin regarding what is actually discovered. Do you admit you found the submersible, with the crew still alive, but were unable to do anything to help, or do you announce that you regretfully were unable to locate the craft before time ran out?  Maybe even arrange a little accident after the crew is gone that just leaves crushed wreckage for someone to find later.  "It must have happened very quickly; they didn't suffer."

Yeah, there's times I wish I didn't actually think some of the stuff that pops in my head.

If it is any consolation the hull was fabricated from carbon fiber. It very likely it was compromised and delmainiated due  previous dives and was on borrowed time. This is the most plausible explanation. When the hull failed the pressure would have killed everyone instantly.

[EBuff75]

Josh Gates, the host of the show Expedition Unknown went down in the Titan when it was being tested, as they were considering an episode where he and a camera operator would go down to the Titanic wreck site for the show.  Ultimately, they decided against it, partly due to feeling that the Titan wasn't ready for prime time yet (multiple issues during the test dive along with concerns about the support vessel and ability of the company to function on a specific timeframe which would be required for shooting an episode for television).

In his interview with Anderson Cooper, Josh mentions that the effects of fatigue on the carbon fiber hull are unknown and how their design (the carbon fiber cylinder with hemispheric end caps) is a departure from every other deep-dive submersible, which all use titanium spheres.  He does talk about the safety systems and how there were multiple ways to initiate an emergency rise to the surface.

His interview starts around minute 19:  https://www.cnn.com/audio/podcasts/anderson-cooper-360/episodes/3ce90482-0f27-4e82-94a8-b029002a4687 

Looks like he was right to opt out of filming an episode aboard.  Of course, since this was a few years ago, they might've been able to work out the timing and gone down before this and been fine.  But given the company's (by the way, does anyone else keep thinking of 'Heaven's Gate' every time they hear the 'OceanGate' name?) history of scheduling problems, they might still be waiting for a timeslot...

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

I'd say that Josh Gates and the production crew dodged a bullet there by ultimately deciding not to go through with a full dive for the show.

[Anianna]

Apparently, the young man aboard had said he was afraid and didn't want to go but was compelled to go as a bonding trip with his father.  I wish they hadn't taken him. 

[NT2C]

Apparently, the young man aboard had said he was afraid and didn't want to go but was compelled to go as a bonding trip with his father.  I wish they hadn't taken him. 

No, I'm not going to say it...