111 years later, Titanic has claimed 5 more victims

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

The chief executive of OceanGate, which was founded in 2009, has compared its project to the burgeoning space tourism industry, and the company has offered tours of the Titanic in which guests paid $250,000 to travel to the wreckage on the seabed, more than two miles below the ocean's surface.

With no deep ocean rescue capabilities should something go wrong, apparently. 

Rescue attempt is underway. It will be very costly.

Yea, but I'm of the opinion that if the company wants to offer submersible tourism, they should have the capability to retrieve their own vehicle.  I hope the bill for recovery is sent to the company.

There's probably going to be a lot more sent to the company than just a bill for recovery.

I'm thinking that despite the waivers, this company is likely looking at some lawsuits from the families of the folks in the missing sub.

[EBuff75]

The chief executive of OceanGate, which was founded in 2009, has compared its project to the burgeoning space tourism industry, and the company has offered tours of the Titanic in which guests paid $250,000 to travel to the wreckage on the seabed, more than two miles below the ocean's surface.

With no deep ocean rescue capabilities should something go wrong, apparently. 

Rescue attempt is underway. It will be very costly.

Yea, but I'm of the opinion that if the company wants to offer submersible tourism, they should have the capability to retrieve their own vehicle.  I hope the bill for recovery is sent to the company.

There's probably going to be a lot more sent to the company than just a bill for recovery.

I'm thinking that despite the waivers, this company is likely looking at some lawsuits from the families of the folks in the missing sub.

Not only that, but the pilot of the submersible was their CEO.  I have serious doubts about the ability of the company to survive this.  I'd guess that they'll simply fold up and go out of existence.

[NT2C]

The chief executive of OceanGate, which was founded in 2009, has compared its project to the burgeoning space tourism industry, and the company has offered tours of the Titanic in which guests paid $250,000 to travel to the wreckage on the seabed, more than two miles below the ocean's surface.

With no deep ocean rescue capabilities should something go wrong, apparently. 

Rescue attempt is underway. It will be very costly.

Yea, but I'm of the opinion that if the company wants to offer submersible tourism, they should have the capability to retrieve their own vehicle.  I hope the bill for recovery is sent to the company.

Considering the company CEO is onboard...

[Uomo Senza Nome]

They going close hold on the names, however at least one has been identified as a high stakes adventure tourist. Likely they all were.

[EBuff75]

They've all been identified, just not officially by the authorities:  https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/20/world/hamish-harding-titanic-tourist-sub-intl/index.html

[Raptor]

Yes killing customers and the CEO tends to make things difficult for a company o survive.

BTW the company likely does not have much insurance or assets. As a matter of fact i doubt the liability insurance market would cover a deep dive in an unidentified craft. As for assets the  boat bringing them out is a chartered anchor handler and the key asset of the company is likely lost. Any contracts that they have are now worthless since they have no backup vessel.

Any lawsuits are likely to recover very little. Much like the Titanic passengers got basically nothing so these folks are not likely to get much. 

[NT2C]

Titan sub: What happens next after sounds detected in search

[MacWa77ace]

When I first heard this I thought of a random something hitting something. But...

"If there was a 30-minute interval, it's very unlikely to be anything but human related," he told the BBC.

...

But Mr Owen says the noises "smack of advice" [~ this is how to signal in this situation] coming from the fifth man on board - 77-year-old Paul-Henry Nargeolet, a former French navy diver and renowned explorer.

"He would know the protocol for trying to alert searching forces... on the hour and the half hour you bang like hell for three minutes," Mr Owen said.

[majorhavoc]

[Uomo Senza Nome]

https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/pakistan/pakistani-billionaire-and-his-son-among-five-aboard-missing-titanic-submarine-1.96516384

UK-based Pakistani billionaire Shahzada Dawood, 48 and his son Suleman Dawood, 19, are among the five passengers onboard 'Titanic' submarine that has gone missing while exploring the wreckage of the Titanic in the North Atlantic Ocean.
Shahzada and Suleman were on board the tiny underwater craft taking paying tourists to view the wreck 12,500ft underwater when they stopped communicating in the Atlantic Ocean, 640km off the coast of Newfoundland, Canada.

Reported to be a close personal friend of Charles III.

Also words of wisdom from the CEO. Can't verify authenticity; but it will likely come up at the civil trial if true.

https://9gag.com/tag/submarine

[majorhavoc]

Some remotely operated vehicles (ROVs) capable of reaching the depth that the Titan is presumed to be are now arriving on the scene. But none are capable of lifting the Titan's 20K lb weight. Larger, more capable deep diving submersibles and their support ships all appear to be too far away to reach the site in time.

If the crew are indeed still alive and disabled on the ocean floor, wouldn't the most likely rescue scenario be one of the on-site ROVs attaching a cable to the stricken vessel and winching it to the surface?

Yet I can't find a single news source reporting whether or not any of the surface assets are equipped with a 2.5 mile long cable that can lift 10 tons.

It's maddening to follow a developing news story and none of the journalists seem to be asking what I think are blindingly obvious questions. 

[Uomo Senza Nome]

Some remotely operated vehicles (ROVs) capable of reaching the depth that the Titan is presumed to be are now arriving on the scene. But none are capable of lifting the Titan's 20K lb weight. Larger, more capable deep diving submersibles and their support ships all appear to be too far away to reach the site in time.

If the crew are indeed still alive and disabled on the ocean floor, wouldn't the most likely rescue scenario be one of the on-site ROVs attaching a cable to the stricken vessel and winching it to the surface?

Yet I can't find a single news source reporting whether or not any of the surface assets are equipped with a 2.5 mile long cable that can lift 10 tons.

It's maddening to follow a developing news story and none of the journalists seem to be asking what I think are blindingly obvious questions.

That is because you won't like the answer.  In this era of official censorship by government law enforcement agencies, bad news about the government is pushed to the bottom of the pile. 


Near as I can tell they identified what they needed early on.

https://news.usni.org/2023/06/20/navy-transcom-supporting-search-for-submersible-missing-after-dive-to-titanic-wreck

However there was a 1.5 day delay on sending the equipment due to the Juneteenth Holiday and everyone being off.

https://www.insider.com/titanic-submersible-rescue-equipment-delayed-by-us-officials-advisor-2023-6

David Concannon, an advisor to OceanGate, told NewsNation on Monday that vital search-and-rescue equipment was sitting on a plane on the island of Guernsey because US officials hadn't signed off on the paperwork.

"U. S. Transportation Command is supporting the search effort with (3) C-17 aircraft that are transporting commercial, rescue-related cargo and equipment from Buffalo, NY to St Johns, Newfoundland. As of 4:30 pm eastern time today, all three aircraft have departed Buffalo, and the last aircraft is scheduled to land at St. John shortly."

So a day and half later it was on it's way. It won't get there in time, but very likely it would never have mattered.

[MacWa77ace]

Some remotely operated vehicles (ROVs) capable of reaching the depth that the Titan is presumed to be are now arriving on the scene. But none are capable of lifting the Titan's 20K lb weight. Larger, more capable deep diving submersibles and their support ships all appear to be too far away to reach the site in time.

If the crew are indeed still alive and disabled on the ocean floor, wouldn't the most likely rescue scenario be one of the on-site ROVs attaching a cable to the stricken vessel and winching it to the surface?

Yet I can't find a single news source reporting whether or not any of the surface assets are equipped with a 2.5 mile long cable that can lift 10 tons.

It's maddening to follow a developing news story and none of the journalists seem to be asking what I think are blindingly obvious questions.

Tethered ROV's have visited Titanic but I can't remember if they were tethered to untethered submercibles. But they should have started moving needed rescue equipment into the area, especially if the transit time was a within the expected oxygen supply. i.e. the 2.5 mile spool of lifting cable.

It was reported by the company that it has a emergency surfacing procedure to automatically surface in the event of a failure. I was thinking it surfaced and since it only has a 1 ft radar signature and the waves are two feet high they'd have to visually find it.

I thought that until the reported 'signals' were heard. Now I think its trapped somehow.

[majorhavoc]

Some remotely operated vehicles (ROVs) capable of reaching the depth that the Titan is presumed to be are now arriving on the scene. But none are capable of lifting the Titan's 20K lb weight. Larger, more capable deep diving submersibles and their support ships all appear to be too far away to reach the site in time.

If the crew are indeed still alive and disabled on the ocean floor, wouldn't the most likely rescue scenario be one of the on-site ROVs attaching a cable to the stricken vessel and winching it to the surface?

Yet I can't find a single news source reporting whether or not any of the surface assets are equipped with a 2.5 mile long cable that can lift 10 tons.

It's maddening to follow a developing news story and none of the journalists seem to be asking what I think are blindingly obvious questions.

Tethered ROV's have visited Titanic but I can't remember if they were tethered to untethered submercibles. But they should have started moving needed rescue equipment into the area, especially if the transit time was a within the expected oxygen supply. i.e. the 2.5 mile spool of lifting cable.

It was reported by the company that it has a emergency surfacing procedure to automatically surface in the event of a failure. I was thinking it surfaced and since it only has a 1 ft radar signature and the waves are two feet high they'd have to visually find it.

I thought that until the reported 'signals' were heard. Now I think its trapped somehow.

Not-so-fun fact: even if it is bobbing on the surface, it cannot be opened by the crew. Apparently due to their pressure resistant design, all deep water submersibles require outside assistance to open the hatch. 

So the 96 hour air supply is still a critical factor whether it's on the surface, intact on the ocean floor or anywhere in between. Imagine making it all the way back to the surface only to suffocate while open air is visible through the viewing port, all because rescuers couldn't get to you in time. 

[majorhavoc]

Also, mea culpa: I revealed my ignorance earlier in this thread criticizing a reporter who overlooked the submarine's 150 year history when they reported that manned submersibles were only developed in the 1950s.

Apparently submersibles are a distinct breed of underwater craft that cannot leave from/return to port unaided. Unlike a true submarine, submersibles require a mother ship to operate.

For what it's worth I honestly thought the Civil War era Hunley had to be towed near it's target and had very limited self mobility, but I am unable to confirm that.

I'll leave it to others to debate what bathyscapes and bathyspheres are if not submersibles  ...

[Uomo Senza Nome]

The Hunley was man powered with a pedals that operated a propeller. It was towed close to the target and then the man power took over.

[NT2C]

Some remotely operated vehicles (ROVs) capable of reaching the depth that the Titan is presumed to be are now arriving on the scene. But none are capable of lifting the Titan's 20K lb weight. Larger, more capable deep diving submersibles and their support ships all appear to be too far away to reach the site in time.

If the crew are indeed still alive and disabled on the ocean floor, wouldn't the most likely rescue scenario be one of the on-site ROVs attaching a cable to the stricken vessel and winching it to the surface?

No, you don't do an underwater lift like that with cables, you do it with flotation bags and compressed air tanks.  Cables to do that would have to be able to lift 3x the weight of the submersible to have a safe working load limit, plus the weight of the cable itself.  Eventually, you reach a point where the cable weight keeps exceeding its SWLL for that length.

It doesn't matter anyway as the submersible was built with positive buoyancy and used external weights to submerge.  The most likely scenario I can come up with is someone forgot to pull the safety pins and they got down there only to find they couldn't jettison the weights and were stuck.

I also think, somewhere right now, some poor SOB is having to make the decision regarding how truthful to be with the media and next of kin regarding what is actually discovered. Do you admit you found the submersible, with the crew still alive, but were unable to do anything to help, or do you announce that you regretfully were unable to locate the craft before time ran out?  Maybe even arrange a little accident after the crew is gone that just leaves crushed wreckage for someone to find later.  "It must have happened very quickly; they didn't suffer."

[Uomo Senza Nome]

It doesn't matter anyway as the submersible was built with positive buoyancy and used external weights to to submerge.  The most likely scenario I can come up with is someone forgot to pull the safety pins and they got down there only to find they couldn't jettison the weights and were stuck.

They lost contact an hour and 45 minutes into the mission before they reached bottom. Most likely it was either hull failure or multiple system failures.

[MacWa77ace]

Diving bells were used as early as 400 bc were also 'submersibles', maybe the nomenclature 'submersible' is only 50 years old. Reporter is definitely mis informing their readers with their expert opinion.

History

The diving bell is one of the earliest types of equipment for underwater work and exploration. Its use was first described by Aristotle in the 4th century BC: "they enable the divers to respire equally well by letting down a cauldron, for this does not fill with water, but retains the air, for it is forced straight down into the water." Recurring legends about Alexander the Great (including some versions of the Alexander Romance) tell he explored the sea in some closed vessel, lowered from his ships

[NT2C]

Some remotely operated vehicles (ROVs) capable of reaching the depth that the Titan is presumed to be are now arriving on the scene. But none are capable of lifting the Titan's 20K lb weight. Larger, more capable deep diving submersibles and their support ships all appear to be too far away to reach the site in time.

If the crew are indeed still alive and disabled on the ocean floor, wouldn't the most likely rescue scenario be one of the on-site ROVs attaching a cable to the stricken vessel and winching it to the surface?

Yet I can't find a single news source reporting whether or not any of the surface assets are equipped with a 2.5 mile long cable that can lift 10 tons.

It's maddening to follow a developing news story and none of the journalists seem to be asking what I think are blindingly obvious questions.

Tethered ROV's have visited Titanic but I can't remember if they were tethered to untethered submercibles. But they should have started moving needed rescue equipment into the area, especially if the transit time was a within the expected oxygen supply. i.e. the 2.5 mile spool of lifting cable.

It was reported by the company that it has a emergency surfacing procedure to automatically surface in the event of a failure. I was thinking it surfaced and since it only has a 1 ft radar signature and the waves are two feet high they'd have to visually find it.

I thought that until the reported 'signals' were heard. Now I think its trapped somehow.

Not-so-fun fact: even if it is bobbing on the surface, it cannot be opened by the crew. Apparently due to their pressure resistant design, all deep water submersibles require outside assistance to open the hatch.

So the 96 hour air supply is still a critical factor whether it's on the surface, intact on the ocean floor or anywhere in between. Imagine making it all the way back to the surface only to suffocate while open air is visible through the viewing port, all because rescuers couldn't get to you in time. 

So, what was their plan if it had gone well then?  There had to be a surface support craft with a crew to recover and open it either way.  I'm also inclined to believe it never surfaced because it had to be equipped with signaling gear for use on the surface and no such signal has been heard.  Only a freaking lunatic would have designed such a craft with no EPIRB (or two) and no flares/dye markers that could be released from inside the craft.