Boat or motorized bike?

[Moab]

This is what happened today in Buenos Aires when their soccer team returned from winning the World Cup. Players had to be helicoptered out in military helicopters.

This is maybe what 35-60% of the local population participating? 

Now imagine something really bad happening. Add in "everyone" fleeing. And 3 or 4 million cars.

It would be permanent gridlock from the cars. They're never going anywhere. I wonder how many people on foot, bikes or motorcycles would even make it out?

Really makes me rethink my exit strategy from a major US city. I need some form of motorized bike. Like now! Lol. Either that or a boat.

Which is the best option if you live on the coast? A boat or a motorized bike? And why? Or a third option?


https://twitter.com/TheInsiderPaper/status/1605291529047887883?t=taZRXQ65lu1MDZBZyQslog&s=19

[flybynight]

I've   told you before  a boat. Drive down Grand to the beach. Launch near the jetty.  All you need to do is get past Malibu point. Or even better over by Pt Magu. Have a beater car stored  there  near the coast  And  then head NE .

[EBuff75]

How about an ebike which you can use to get to your boat, and a boat which is large enough to carry the bike?

[Moab]

Forgive me if I sound to stupid right now. Have not eaten or slept. Long story.

I guess as a thought exercise I was wondering the pros and cons of both. I know we've discussed this back on ZS. But thought it might be interesting. Because ebikes have changed so much. And the easier access to solar.  

I researched ebikes a bit a few weeks back. I was shocked at how expensive they were. Hell I'm shocked about how much everything is. There is a place in town here that builds a sort of small motorcycle looking ebike. It almost looks like it has a gas tank on it. Are there hybrid gas/electric bikes? 

(I know we could just google this. But so much more interesting to discuss it. Many of you may have done some research and come to some conclusions.)

This and I can't afford a boat at the moment. And don't have any place to park one. I had considered obtaining access by various means. But thats an offline conversation.

I guess the boat gives you the easiest access to travel. You've got the open ocean to travel in whatever coastal direction you want to. If you're a competent sailor. Which I have to admit I'm not. I could manage a motorized boat. But sailing would be trial an error. Which might lead to a dependence on some amount of fuel. Unless there are solar powered boats now? I wouldn't think you'd want that much battery that close to water.

Ebikes are a similar question. Where are you going to charge them? And is a gas a powered bike better?

More later. Gotta eat and rest. 

[EBuff75]

I researched ebikes a bit a few weeks back. I was shocked at how expensive they were. Hell I'm shocked about how much everything is. There is a place in town here that builds a sort of small motorcycle looking ebike. It almost looks like it has a gas tank on it. Are there hybrid gas/electric bikes?

I'm not aware of any hybrid gas/electric bikes and I imagine that if there were any that they'd be even more expensive and heavy (because you'd have both systems).  There are quite a few ebikes which are designed to look like old motorcycles or mopeds, so that's likely what you saw.  Electrek.co, electricbikereview.com , and electricbikereport.com all have lots of good information about bikes, including articles on how to build your own.

You can find a few decent ebikes in the sub-$1000 range and you can get pretty good ones for $1500-2000.  I keep getting stuck on whether to get folding or not.  If I go with a folding bike, then it would likely be one of the Lectric bike models, which are the very rare combination of cheap and having good reliability / support! 

I guess the boat gives you the easiest access to travel. You've got the open ocean to travel in whatever coastal direction you want to. If you're a competent sailor. Which I have to admit I'm not. I could manage a motorized boat. But sailing would be trial an error. Which might lead to a dependence on some amount of fuel. Unless there are solar powered boats now? I wouldn't think you'd want that much battery that close to water.

There are electric boats available, but charging from solar would take a very, very long time for most of them.  You're generally talking about fairly sizeable battery packs, so charging them is akin to charging an electric car.  Possible, but you need a fairly large solar array and quite a bit of time.

Ebikes are a similar question. Where are you going to charge them? And is a gas a powered bike better?

I have seen a few ebikes which have the option to purchase solar panels as an accessory.  They're just portable / folding solar panels, but usually at 2-5x the cost of what I can find elsewhere.  The only advantage for some of them is that they're already set up to work with that bike (connections, voltages, etc.), rather than needing to figure all of that out yourself.  It shouldn't be too hard to look at the charging specs for the battery and determine what panels would work and what cables are needed.  One option might be to get a small power bank which you charge from solar and then use it to charge the bike battery.  This might be particularly useful if you have a trailer on the bike, where you could lay out the solar panels during the day, even during travel.

Gas vs electric is really up to you and your circumstances.  Gas means needing to carry more with you for refills, or trust that you'll be able to get more along your route.  Electric can be recharged via solar (or plug-in to the grid if available), but the distance you can travel each day would be limited to how much you can get back into the battery each day.  One other advantage of electric is the noise - they're really quiet.  If you're talking about travel in SHTF, that could be a big advantage.

And if you're talking about something which is actually a bicycle, not a moped, then you always have the option to pedal, whether it's gas or electric!  The big drawback for that is that these bikes are usually quite heavy, so get ready for a serious workout!

[RoneKiln]

I'm not competent with a boat and nobody I care about lives on the water. Everywhere I would try to get would make an ebike or small engine motorcycle infinitely more useful.

I live on a good size river a few miles from the ocean. There's quite a few islands off the coast. In theory a boat is perfect for me. But in reality, I don't have property or friends on those islands. I wouldn't head for those islands any more than I'd head for Walmart.

Some people are competent with boats and have a person and/or place to go that's on the water. For them I would agree a boat is better.

[flybynight]

Ok second idea. Get used bicycles from garage sales ( or wherever )  Mount one of these type of kits. 

https://www.amazon.com/Bicycle-2-Stroke-Motorized-Upgrade-Speedometer/dp/B091YBP48P/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2VEED4YVIUE9J&keywords=bike+motor&qid=1671631296&rnid=1248955011&s=sporting-goods&sprefix=bike+motor%2Caps%2C226&sr=1-4#customerReviews

And then take beach bike path north. Would get you to Sunset Blvd , where it connects to PCH before having to take streets. 

And  that kit I only use for representation of idea. I have no experience with it.  But it does have some good review pics . Including a mount to a trike  bike.   which might be good for carrying Bug Out supplies ( and extra fuel)
 

[Moab]

I guess in a perfect world you could load pedal bikes and trailers onto your boat. Have your boat be a sailboat with an outboard that was the most fuel efficient. 

Then when you decide to go on shore you can use the bikes. 

I never thought about silence. That is an advantage. 

It just doesn't seem like electric is that doable considering solar tho. It doesnt sound like anything you could carry on foot would charge fast enough. Maybe if you had large house type oanels on your boat it would work? 

Short of a boat I think I would want a gas powered motorcycle to get out of the city. And then maybe cache pedal bikes and trailers far enough outside the city, that you could get to them on the gas you have. Then switch over. Assuming finding gas is an issue.

Two contingencies would be trailers for motorcycles? Do those exist? Second would be a way to convert motorcycle or pedal bike trailers to something a person could use. Without a bike or motorcycle. 

Besides your back. Have any of you experimented with other ways to load a pack on a bicycle? Meaning not in a trailer or on your back? Seems like there has to be a better way to do that. 

[EBuff75]

It's possible to use a portable solar panel to charge an ebike, but the obvious limitation is that you have to charge during the day.  In some cases you may be able to charge while riding (see the 2nd article below), but if that's not an option, you'd have to decide which to do during daylight.  Here are a few articles about this topic:

Can You Charge an Electric Bike With a Solar Panel

How I built a Simple Solar e-Bike For a Lifetime of Free Charging

QuietKat's Folding Solar-Powered Electric Bike Charger for On-The-Go

[Moab]

It's possible to use a portable solar panel to charge an ebike, but the obvious limitation is that you have to charge during the day.  In some cases you may be able to charge while riding (see the 2nd article below), but if that's not an option, you'd have to decide which to do during daylight.  Here are a few articles about this topic:

Can You Charge an Electric Bike With a Solar Panel

How I built a Simple Solar e-Bike For a Lifetime of Free Charging

QuietKat's Folding Solar-Powered Electric Bike Charger for On-The-Go

I can't readily find info on how long it takes to charge. That would be the most important consideration. And how many charges you would get out of an ebike battery?

Any idea before I go down that rabbit hole? 

[EBuff75]

It's possible to use a portable solar panel to charge an ebike, but the obvious limitation is that you have to charge during the day.  In some cases you may be able to charge while riding (see the 2nd article below), but if that's not an option, you'd have to decide which to do during daylight.  Here are a few articles about this topic:

Can You Charge an Electric Bike With a Solar Panel

How I built a Simple Solar e-Bike For a Lifetime of Free Charging

QuietKat's Folding Solar-Powered Electric Bike Charger for On-The-Go

I can't readily find info on how long it takes to charge. That would be the most important consideration. And how many charges you would get out of an ebike battery?

Any idea before I go down that rabbit hole?

For the QuietKat Jeep model, the Q&A on their website states 6-8 hrs for either wall charging, or solar (using their 150w folding panel).  So basically a whole day with the panel in the sun to recharge it fully.

[Raptor]

Boats bring their own issues and assuming that you have assess to water that leads to your destination you still have to confront the issue of bridges and other obstructions. The one key issue is if you have traffic how are you getting the boat to the water? In the where you keep the boat in the water that is less of an issue.

I have dealt with Mardi Gras traffic issues annually as well as evacuation and contraflow traffic issues. Traffic is real issue. That does take prior planning and thought. There is almost always alternative back streets and routes. You will need to scope this put and plan.

The other thing you can plan on doing is leave early. If you think there will be an issue go and relocate as soon as you can. Once the roads are tied up or worse gridlocked you are better off bugging in, at least for the short term. The last thing you want to do is get caught in traffic like these folks in Houston running from Hurricane Rita.
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Hurricane-Rita-anxiety-leads-to-hellish-fatal-6521994.php

Obviously if the event is sudden and unexpected there is not much you can do. That said everyone else will be at a similar disadvantage. If you act promptly and decisively you may get out ok.

If Google maps is still functional it will show you the worst spots to avoid. If Google maps is not function that is one cue to leave ASAP.

Finally the issue of a bike. If you regularly ride a bike this is great plan. I have a friend who rides 25 mile 3 to 4 days a week. Bugging out to his BOL ~75 miles away by bike is his plan B. On the other hand Raptor (me) has about much chance of getting to my BOL by bike as he does of winning the Power Ball lottery... in theory it is possible, in reality N.A.F.C.

Still as  plan B a bicycle can be used to carry a large load over a distance that would be impossible for a backpack. Note they did not ride them but rather use them as a load carrying device and pushed it. Slow going but better than carrying the load.


   
I like the idea of buying used bikes cheap and having one available. Also kid trailers coudl be loaded with cargo.


A scooter like this could be used everyday and in a pinch could also be used here.
https://neworleans.craigslist.org/mcy/d/covington-2021-scooter-90-miles-to-the/7564973243.html


For what it is worth my Plan A for limited events is to depart ASAP to my BOL at the first sign of trouble. My plan A for most events is to bug in.

[flybynight]

Boats bring their own issues and assuming that you have assess to water that leads to your destination you still have to confront the issue of bridges and other obstructions. The one key issue is if you have traffic how are you getting the boat to the water? In the where you keep the boat in the water that is less of an issue.

I have dealt with Mardi Gras traffic issues annually as well as evacuation and contraflow traffic issues. Traffic is real issue. That does take prior planning and thought. There is almost always alternative back streets and routes. You will need to scope this put and plan.

The other thing you can plan on doing is leave early. If you think there will be an issue go and relocate as soon as you can. Once the roads are tied up or worse gridlocked you are better off bugging in, at least for the short term. The last thing you want to do is get caught in traffic like these folks in Houston running from Hurricane Rita.
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Hurricane-Rita-anxiety-leads-to-hellish-fatal-6521994.php

Obviously if the event is sudden and unexpected there is not much you can do. That said everyone else will be at a similar disadvantage. If you act promptly and decisively you may get out ok.

If Google maps is still functional it will show you the worst spots to avoid. If Google maps is not function that is one cue to leave ASAP.

Finally the issue of a bike. If you regularly ride a bike this is great plan. I have a friend who rides 25 mile 3 to 4 days a week. Bugging out to his BOL ~75 miles away by bike is his plan B. On the other hand Raptor (me) has about much chance of getting to my BOL by bike as he does of winning the Power Ball lottery... in theory it is possible, in reality N.A.F.C.

Still as  plan B a bicycle can be used to carry a large load over a distance that would be impossible for a backpack. Note they did not ride them but rather use them as a load carrying device and pushed it. Slow going but better than carrying the load.


   
I like the idea of buying used bikes cheap and having one available. Also kid trailers coudl be loaded with cargo.


A scooter like this could be used everyday and in a pinch could also be used here.
https://neworleans.craigslist.org/mcy/d/covington-2021-scooter-90-miles-to-the/7564973243.html


For what it is worth my Plan A for limited events is to depart ASAP to my BOL at the first sign of trouble. My plan A for most events is to bug in.

Bugging in is my plan A also. That being said , for the first fifty years of my life I lived not many miles from his residence. I know what he is facing. Within a mile and half to his west is the Pacific ocean The towns to his east are  for lack of a better term shady. High crime , gangs and that brings up another deterrent. There is roughly 30 times the number of people living in his AO then most of the major cities in the country. Gridlock occurs EVERY day. Plus he lives within sight of at least three major targets in the event of a Nuke war. LAX, Los Angeles Air  Force Base, and Chevron oil refinery and ocean oil  tanker docking point.  Any hope of escape will involve quickly using alternate off road paths NOT  easily available to the thirty million other people living in the Los Angeles area

ETA Writing all that down  , Man you need to move. That or give up any hope of escape and just enjoy that beach life   in uncaring bliss

[Moab]

Boats bring their own issues and assuming that you have assess to water that leads to your destination you still have to confront the issue of bridges and other obstructions. The one key issue is if you have traffic how are you getting the boat to the water? In the where you keep the boat in the water that is less of an issue.

I have dealt with Mardi Gras traffic issues annually as well as evacuation and contraflow traffic issues. Traffic is real issue. That does take prior planning and thought. There is almost always alternative back streets and routes. You will need to scope this put and plan.

The other thing you can plan on doing is leave early. If you think there will be an issue go and relocate as soon as you can. Once the roads are tied up or worse gridlocked you are better off bugging in, at least for the short term. The last thing you want to do is get caught in traffic like these folks in Houston running from Hurricane Rita.
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Hurricane-Rita-anxiety-leads-to-hellish-fatal-6521994.php

Obviously if the event is sudden and unexpected there is not much you can do. That said everyone else will be at a similar disadvantage. If you act promptly and decisively you may get out ok.

If Google maps is still functional it will show you the worst spots to avoid. If Google maps is not function that is one cue to leave ASAP.

Finally the issue of a bike. If you regularly ride a bike this is great plan. I have a friend who rides 25 mile 3 to 4 days a week. Bugging out to his BOL ~75 miles away by bike is his plan B. On the other hand Raptor (me) has about much chance of getting to my BOL by bike as he does of winning the Power Ball lottery... in theory it is possible, in reality N.A.F.C.

Still as  plan B a bicycle can be used to carry a large load over a distance that would be impossible for a backpack. Note they did not ride them but rather use them as a load carrying device and pushed it. Slow going but better than carrying the load.


   
I like the idea of buying used bikes cheap and having one available. Also kid trailers coudl be loaded with cargo.


A scooter like this could be used everyday and in a pinch could also be used here.
https://neworleans.craigslist.org/mcy/d/covington-2021-scooter-90-miles-to-the/7564973243.html


For what it is worth my Plan A for limited events is to depart ASAP to my BOL at the first sign of trouble. My plan A for most events is to bug in.

Bugging in is my plan A also. That being said , for the first fifty years of my life I lived not many miles from his residence. I know what he is facing. Within a mile and half to his west is the Pacific ocean The towns to his east are  for lack of a better term shady. High crime , gangs and that brings up another deterrent. There is roughly 30 times the number of people living in his AO then most of the major cities in the country. Gridlock occurs EVERY day. Plus he lives within sight of at least three major targets in the event of a Nuke war. LAX, Los Angeles Air  Force Base, and Chevron oil refinery and ocean oil  tanker docking point.  Any hope of escape will involve quickly using alternate off road paths NOT  easily available to the thirty million other people living in the Los Angeles area

ETA Writing all that down  , Man you need to move. That or give up any hope of escape and just enjoy that beach life  in uncaring bliss

I just lost a huge reply to a phone update. I don't know why I keep replying in thw forum and not using my note app. Lol.  

I can't believe you remember all that. But I guess since you lived here its easier to remember.

Basically I said...

Boat launch to open ocean is a mile or two away. Probably long line for first 24hrs. But once out of the marina its alot safer than the freeways.

25M people in the LA basin. Alot of violent people. Especially in a frantic disaster. Alot of guns here. Way way more people with guns than prepped supplies. Pushing or riding a bike up the 5 freeway with all your gear would be a nightmare. Yes you'd get thru by going between cars. But thousands would have guns and weapons. And far outnumber you. 

Its also 2hrs of driving without traffic to open space and out of gridlock. With normal traffic it could be 4hrs. In a disaster many more. And depending on the disaster the gridlock could be hours, days or permenant if people left there cars on foot. Surface streets no safer.

I'm beginning to think a bov might be a complete waste of time and money. Except in the most civil evacuations.

I've sailed some. But hate it. Lol. I'd think a 20 to 25ft sailboat with fuel efficient small outboard motor would be best. But I really need to learn to sail on my own first. I've been crew on 50 footers before. Used to sail with a friend for weeks at a time. And steered a couple times. But in no way am I sailor. 

If I was a millionaire I'd go full on motor sailer route. But with any boat option its alot of time and money. You have to continually use it and test all its systems. And keep it repaired and up to date. Would have to be some form of fiberglas and not wood. Wood is way hard to keep up. The whole boat option is a major investment. 

But sailing away from any major event would be the safest and fastest here. But I also think any method of escape here would be frought with violence. The marinas would probably be full of folks fighting over boats. Regardless of ownership.

Any way out would require long guns. Sound tactics. And alot of luck. 

I've spent a fair bit of time around different kinds of boats. My brother in law and I rebuilt a motor boat many years ago. Including the complete tear down of the outboard. I know just enough about boats to know I don't want one. Lol. But maybe I should change my thinking on that.

I guess you could plan an intermediate boat escape. Smaller boat and some form of transportation cache just out of the city. Idk. Food for thought. 

[Moab]

Its interesting that I used to have motorcycles as my plan b. Maybe its just people seem nastier these days. But I don't think you'd make it out of the city on motorcycle. You'd get knocked over or shot. And have your bike and all your gear taken eventually. No way you could survive that many attempted car (bike) jackings. 

[RoneKiln]

Maybe it was already answered, but yes they make trailers for motorcycles. They also make cargo carrier bicycles if you're in good shape.

I wouldn't want to be in LA when something bad enough happened to force an evacuation. But I'd rather have a motorcycle, ebike, or mountain bike if it happened. They give more options even if they're not an ideal answer. And they all are a lot of fun if nothing goes wrong. I couldn't argue which of the three is best. It depends on your exact life situation. 

Yeah, you're a target. So are the other 20 million people trying to get out. You'll likely blend in more than you expect.

A common human fallacy is assuming everyone is thinking of you. Most people are caught up in their own lives paying no attention to others. Especially during horrible stressful times. The vast majority of people will pay no attention to you if you're not all decked out in clearly fancy gear. Those that are paying attention will most likely ignore you if you look slightly more dangerous and alert than most people without challenging their turf. 

I'm tempted to get a Honda Navi for fun and a potential escape vehicle. I've heard good arguments a good offroad bike is better, but I don't need the temptation. I'll do something dumb and maim myself.

I'm also tempted to get a cargo bicycle. I don't think I ride my normal bike often enough to justify it though.

[Raptor]

In such a situation it is likely power will be out. No power no lights when dark. Think about a plan to move at night without lights.

I have no idea how far you have to go but that could work with a motorized vehicle.

As for a boat from L.A. you would either have to go towards Mexico or north. The trip would be slow going north due to prevailing winds and currents. 
 

[Moab]

This..

https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/dual-sport/crf300l?cid=main_reprise/google/Brand_Motorcycle_Adventure_Exact/CRF250L/honda%20crf300l&gclid=CjwKCAiAnZCdBhBmEiwA8nDQxdlTT1QAVSoLL7j2wqvK2cT2TkExO3z8ePxKTwvpcE_8XRP46WbUKBoCdXoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

And something like this...

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/quietkat-cargo-trailer-single-wheel-all-terrain-black/6491876.p?skuId=6491876

Would be pretty cool. 

[RoneKiln]

This..

https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/dual-sport/crf300l?cid=main_reprise/google/Brand_Motorcycle_Adventure_Exact/CRF250L/honda%20crf300l&gclid=CjwKCAiAnZCdBhBmEiwA8nDQxdlTT1QAVSoLL7j2wqvK2cT2TkExO3z8ePxKTwvpcE_8XRP46WbUKBoCdXoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

And something like this...

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/quietkat-cargo-trailer-single-wheel-all-terrain-black/6491876.p?skuId=6491876

Would be pretty cool.

That would be an awesome combo if you could get a trailer like that to work with the motorcycle. 

[Moab]

This..

https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/dual-sport/crf300l?cid=main_reprise/google/Brand_Motorcycle_Adventure_Exact/CRF250L/honda%20crf300l&gclid=CjwKCAiAnZCdBhBmEiwA8nDQxdlTT1QAVSoLL7j2wqvK2cT2TkExO3z8ePxKTwvpcE_8XRP46WbUKBoCdXoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

And something like this...

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/quietkat-cargo-trailer-single-wheel-all-terrain-black/6491876.p?skuId=6491876

Would be pretty cool.

That would be an awesome combo if you could get a trailer like that to work with the motorcycle.

I didn't search alot. There must be more trailers for motorcycles?