Manufacturer specified oil vs what might extend your engine life.

[MacWa77ace]

Conclusion of this one video.

lite oil better mpg for the first 100k miles.
heavier oil better engine life from day one or first oil change.

My '22Corolla uses 0W-20, and has 45K miles, think I'm going to switch and lose the .7 mpg to trade for longevity. Plus I'm a long trip high heat user.


Right now I'm averaging 39mpg, I can easily see a difference in my mpg, if there is one even that small, due to my OC MPG commuter mindset; MPG makes a difference to me financially.

21,850 annual commute miles
39mpg w/ 0W-20
38.3 mpg estimated per video w/ 5W-30

21,850 / 39mpg = 560.26 gallons @ 3.00.gal = $1680.78/yr
21,850 / 38.3mpg = 570.50 gallons @ 3.00.gal = 1711.50/yr

$30.72 savings per year if I use the 0W-20 but by the time I hit 100k miles the tolerances will have worn the engine to the point where the heavier oil is needed anyhow and milage might even be worse.

What do you think? What do you do?

[Moab]

I just did another deep dive on oil myself. After buying the new Suzuki Jimny I didn't want to get hustled at the dealership on mandatory oil changes to keep my warranty in place. But quickly figured out there was a scam involved. 

Phillipine dealerships (which often operate separate from the manufacturer - at least they do with Suzukis. They buy the brand name and cars, take posession and often install their own head units and other extras. After that Suzuki Japan has little to nothing to do with it.) 

They are famous for refusing warranty work if any maintenance is unaccounted for or incorrect. Synthetic oil does nothing conventional can't. Unless you plan on not changing your oil every 3000 to 5000km/miles. Which I've never done - not changed my oil at that general interval. 

But with my warranty I am required to change it that often. But the dealership only offers synthetic oil. Which is about $50-$65 more expensive. Lol. Like they don't even stock conventional oil. Susuki does not make a conventional specifically for the engine in my Jimny. So I'm forced to pay extra every oil change for unnecessary synthetic oil. 

In hit climates like yours and mine I to prefer a bit thicker oil. Nice to see the potential benefits in your video as well. I primarily always ran it with the idea that in higher heat it was simply going to thin and lubricate better than a thinner oil. 

My dealership is a joke. They don't even have a working tire balancing machine. Lol. I think it's largely there to just sell overpriced maintenance required by their warranties. Like it's a racket. They issue a warranty maintenance booklet with every new car that has to be signed by the dealership at every scheduled maintenance. Which is so 1978 pre internet. Lmao! All young mechanics that I'm sure have never received any Suzuki training. I have a much better mechanic in town who works on commercial vehicles. A much higher level of service here. Business owners don't f around here. 

Thanks for posting. I did have a choice between a thicker and thinner oil. I chose the thicker. 

[EBuff75]

One of the nice things about being in the Detroit area is that if you own a vehicle from one of the big three, you can generally count on the dealers being pretty good.  They're trained much better than the average dealers are, know what they're doing, and generally do a good job with repairs and estimates.  The reason is that they never know when someone might be an exec, or the relative / best friend / next door neighbor of an exec!  And doing something like scamming the daughter of someone who turns out to be a VP at the parent company of your dealership can be a job-ending situation.

That's not to say that they're cheap places to have work done, but I've generally had good luck, even on imports.  Now, because both of my vehicles are old and out of warranty, I go to a local mechanic, but I've gotten pretty good service from Chevy and Pontiac dealers around here in the past.  

I had one situation where a tech tried to short me on a 20,000mi service (oil change, tire balance / rotation, air filter, fluid top-off).  I caught him at it (one tire had a ding in it and was still in the same position and the air filter hadn't been changed).  When I pointed this out to the service manager, he hit the roof.  The tech had to re-do the service (well, for half of it he had to actually DO it), with the manager and advisor breathing down his neck, while they apologized profusely.  Mind you, I was working in a GM office at the time (this was with a Pontiac), where their own shuttle van had dropped me off and picked me up, so it was pretty obvious that this sort of thing could cause issues.

Couldn't complain too much though, as that same dealer had previously covered a brake job under warranty.  Unless there's an obvious defect, brake jobs are considered a wear & tear item that's not covered under warranty, but they covered it for me anyway.  With a Chevy that I owned, just calling in with an oddball issue (a bit of smoke coming out of the hazard light button on the steering column) was enough.  The guy knew exactly what the cause was (worn out turn signal switch) and correctly quoted me the repair cost to within a dollar off the top of his head!

I am glad that my first job out of college was working in the Pontiac / GMC customer service call center, as it gave me a really good understanding of how to deal with service departments.  I've even given advice to friends on how to handle out-of-warranty issues so that they can get them partly covered at dealerships.  (let me know if this ever happens to you and I can give you some pointers)

[Uomo Senza Nome]

I use synthetic in my truck of the correct weight. The difference is appreciable. 


Oil Change interval: 
Conventional: 3000
Synthetic: 5000



Cost savings @ 15,000 miles
MPG
Conventional: 17MPG HWY
Synthetic: 20 MPG HWY

Gas:
Synthetic =  (132) gallons
132 gallons X $2.60 =($343.20)

Oil Changes
Conventional = $70 X 5 = $350
Synthetic = $85 X 3 = $255

Synthetic ($95)

So I save about $438.20 every 15K miles, unless gas gets more expensive in which case it is more. 

Since synth is so much better than conventional oil I am assuming future maintenance costs will be less.  My only complaint is that while the truck "appears" to have slightly more horsepower, it also "appears" to have slightly less torque. No idea why it feels that way. The truck has 400HP and 380lbs of torque so I am not exactly concerned, it is just a little weird.

In this case your mileage will literally vary. 

[MacWa77ace]

@Uomo Senza Nome What is the Manufacturer's recommended oil weight for your truck? That's a pretty big mpg difference.

It's not really the synthetic vs conventional though, its the light weight manufacturer specified oil [synthetic or conventional] vs the heavier weight and its benefits beyond gas milage. 0W is for freezing weather starts and the low weight is for new tight tolerance engines to get that fraction of a mpg increase at the cost of engine wear. Since I'm in Florida and we never freeze where I am, but we are 70% hot weather annually and lots of traffic jams. It might be better for overall engine wear in my case, to go with the heavier. At least that's the theory.

My next oil change I think I'm going to use the same brand but switch from 0W-20 to 5W-30 and see if I can tell a mpg difference.

I never did 3000 mile oil changes but ALWAYs change at 5000 miles. IME I got 370K miles out of an engine in my corolla with 5K changes using conventional or partial synthetic or full synth, and got the same milage in that vehicle no matter what the oil. 33.5 mpg average. And when I got rid of it it wasn't because of an engine issue. I was burning oil though so the oil rings were worn on the pistons, which is a known issue for that year corolla with high milage. I wasn't outside Toyota spec for oil consumption yet though. 2 qt/5K miles.

My commuter vehicle driving is sort of a good test route and miles because it is 80% highway miles with high speeds 75+mph. And the exact same miles every week. So if in a fuel up i see a lower mpg number, I can identify it as, oh, that half hour traffic jam was in last Wednesday. 

But if I get even 0.7 mpg less efficient I should see that too, in my trip log. [you got 3.0mpg  difference by switching oil types, not grades. ]

Look at trips 1, 3, 4, that's the norm for about 380 miles between fill ups, trip 2 got better milage, and 5 is a little worse but together they average the average mpg.
You cannot view this attachment.

[MacWa77ace]

Here's Motor Oil Geeks rebuttal video to a different video by The Car Care Pro regarding the same subject.

I've watched some motor oil geek's videos before. The video below his in this post is the one he's responding to which is weirdly repetitive of the first video I posted.

Car Care Pro

[Uomo Senza Nome]

The manufacturer requires 5w-30 year around for warranty. I am now outside of warranty but saw no reason to change it.

I think the difference has more to do with the size of the engine. Making a larger engine more efficient likely has a larger marginal improvement.  I've heard stories of people getting 23MPG HWY with the same vehicle, which is astonishing for a heavy V8 truck. I tend to drive around 80 MPH on the highway mostly and might get 23 if I drove slower.

I am in the middle of helping my GF relocate to my place and it is about 500 miles each way about twice a month so oil changes and gas prices have been of interest to me lately.

For work I normally ride one of my motorcycles and get around 45MPG+ so I fill up about once a month as round trip it is 10 miles. I only commute 15-20 days a month so I can often squeeze a whole month into one tank.

[Moab]

One of the nice things about being in the Detroit area is that if you own a vehicle from one of the big three, you can generally count on the dealers being pretty good.  They're trained much better than the average dealers are, know what they're doing, and generally do a good job with repairs and estimates.  The reason is that they never know when someone might be an exec, or the relative / best friend / next door neighbor of an exec!  And doing something like scamming the daughter of someone who turns out to be a VP at the parent company of your dealership can be a job-ending situation.

That's not to say that they're cheap places to have work done, but I've generally had good luck, even on imports.  Now, because both of my vehicles are old and out of warranty, I go to a local mechanic, but I've gotten pretty good service from Chevy and Pontiac dealers around here in the past. 

I had one situation where a tech tried to short me on a 20,000mi service (oil change, tire balance / rotation, air filter, fluid top-off).  I caught him at it (one tire had a ding in it and was still in the same position and the air filter hadn't been changed).  When I pointed this out to the service manager, he hit the roof.  The tech had to re-do the service (well, for half of it he had to actually DO it), with the manager and advisor breathing down his neck, while they apologized profusely.  Mind you, I was working in a GM office at the time (this was with a Pontiac), where their own shuttle van had dropped me off and picked me up, so it was pretty obvious that this sort of thing could cause issues.

Couldn't complain too much though, as that same dealer had previously covered a brake job under warranty.  Unless there's an obvious defect, brake jobs are considered a wear & tear item that's not covered under warranty, but they covered it for me anyway.  With a Chevy that I owned, just calling in with an oddball issue (a bit of smoke coming out of the hazard light button on the steering column) was enough.  The guy knew exactly what the cause was (worn out turn signal switch) and correctly quoted me the repair cost to within a dollar off the top of his head!

I am glad that my first job out of college was working in the Pontiac / GMC customer service call center, as it gave me a really good understanding of how to deal with service departments.  I've even given advice to friends on how to handle out-of-warranty issues so that they can get them partly covered at dealerships.  (let me know if this ever happens to you and I can give you some pointers)

I used to have good luck (30 years ago?) taking my vehicles to the dealership for a diagnostic as they were so trusted. Less than $200..Then taking the report to a normally prices good mechanic and having the work done. At the time, in Seattle, that was Sears. Ya. Sears used to have really good mechanic shops.

But the dealerships have changed so much. And leaned into the idea that they make more money off repairs and replacement of parts engineered to go bad at specific intervals. Rather than making money on profitable cars that last a long time. Their diagnostics are bloated with bullshit repairs. It's literally a joke. I can't even take used vehicles there for ore purchase inspections anymore. Because they come back with a laundry list of bullshit. Half of a which they can't even prove needs replacing it's just their "suggested intervals".

It's to bad because at one time they were the gold standard. I know longer have any respect for dealerships. New American vehicles and a lot of others are built to be disposable like everything else. I swore to never buy another new vehicle years ago. I just did. But that's because Suzuki still makes a simple vehicle meant to last. Not disposable or meant to have repairs as half of your vehicle expenditures over the life of ownership. But Suzuki was run out if the American market by lies about the Suzuki Samurai. Interesting videos on YouTube proving Consumer Reports faked tests that it had a roll over problem. Probably financed or backed by the American auto industry. They stillake vehicles that last overseas. But few in the US. Even Toyotas are starting to fall apart.

Makes me wonder how corp America is so concerned about pollution. How much pollution are we causing by making everything disposable? And polluting the environment by making 5 or 10 of an item over your lifetime. And dumping it's dead carcus in a hole somewhere.

Finding a good mechanic these days is like finding a good attorney or therapist. Damn hard.

[Uomo Senza Nome]

I'll add to your rant on dealerships and lack of good auto shops. My neighbor, who has the turbo diesel version of my truck took his to the dealership when it was acting up. They told him they needed to replace his transmission ($14,000) at 85,000 miles because it threw a one time code for the transmission having a catastrophic failure. 

That was the only thing they did so far as diagnostics. 

He found a good diesel mechanic and they found it was actually the turbo boot. This is a $600 repair. But the guy was so back logged as the only decent small engine diesel mechanic in the area it took two months to get it fixed.  

My brother was an auto mechanic. Toyota paid for him to go to school and get a 2 year degree. He worked for them for five years and by then the labor market had changed so much he found he could write his own ticket. When he passed he was making real money at a high end sports car place in Seattle and working a race car team on the weekend. That shop was so nice you could eat off the floor. I would advise any kid today to at least look at the idea of becoming a mechanic.

[Moab]

I'll add to your rant on dealerships and lack of good auto shops. My neighbor, who has the turbo diesel version of my truck took his to the dealership when it was acting up. They told him they needed to replace his transmission ($14,000) at 85,000 miles because it threw a one time code for the transmission having a catastrophic failure.

That was the only thing they did so far as diagnostics.

He found a good diesel mechanic and they found it was actually the turbo boot. This is a $600 repair. But the guy was so back logged as the only decent small engine diesel mechanic in the area it took two months to get it fixed. 

My brother was an auto mechanic. Toyota paid for him to go to school and get a 2 year degree. He worked for them for five years and by then the labor market had changed so much he found he could write his own ticket. When he passed he was making real money at a high end sports car place in Seattle and working a race car team on the weekend. That shop was so nice you could eat off the floor. I would advise any kid today to at least look at the idea of becoming a mechanic.

Fords CEO recently announced their biggest problem is lack of mechanics. But immediately mechanics across America posted online. Apparently the auto industry now does not pay by the hour but by the job. And their estimates for jobs are completely unrealistic. Often paying only a few hours for jobs that take way longer. And as vehicles get more complicated and engineered to be more expensive to work on (so the dealerships make more money) mechanics can't afford to take the jobs. Because they are so unfairly paid. It was a big issue about 2 weeks ago.

But I hear what you are saying. Nit a bad idea to be a tradesman like electrician or plumber or mechanic. Just don't work for the dealership. Or at least work for a union. Or better yet start your own business.