Slipkid42 posted this question. And I spent an inordinate amount of time answering him. So I thought I would make it its own thread. So that perhaps it might help someone in the future.
Slipkid42 originally asked about these types of sharpeners:
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00VTO5MK4?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
To which I replied:
I think the one you posted is ok for someone that has never been taught how to sharpen something. And wants to sharpen fast. And isn't using an expensive knife.
But over time they tend to put waves in the cutting edge. And wear it down faster than normal. You wont get as sharp an edge either. But it is fast. And tools tend to take a lifetime to wear out from sharpening. But you can quickly ruin an edge if you want it to be completely sharp.
I have seen these type of sharpeners used in meat packing plants. Where im sure they found that it was cheaper to have employees use this faster sharpener and simply replace knives. Rather than spend the employee time to sharpen with a stone. But you want to keep your original knife and you want it to have as sharp an edge as you can maintain by hamd.
So this type of sharpener is ok. But not optimal. I do have one in my knife draw. But i only use it on very hard blades that are difficult to sharpen with a stone. And that i dont really care about the blades. The ones with ceramic stones in them are easier on blades. But really are only good for finishing a blades edge. As they take off very little edge. The bottom of a true ceramic bowl works just as well if not better. But you need to know how to sharpen a knife by hand to use one.
The correct way that i was taught from about 5 yrs old on. It probably took me awhile to perfect it on different angles of blades. Was to simply use a two sided stone or two stones. One medium grain and one smooth. One to smooth larger imperfections and one to put a nice smooth finish on the edge. But if your knife came with a decent edge and you haven't damaged it. A smooth stone will almost always work fine.
First put oil on the stone. I use 3 in 1. But just about any oil will do. You can use spit if you dont have any oil. Add more oil as it gets pushed off the stone or dries out.
You always run the blade across the stone. Unless its something large like a hatchet or axe.
But its all about what angle you hold the blade at while sliding it across the stone. And learning how to keep the blade at that correct angle threw the entire draw. Or drawing that blade across the stone.
You always want to draw the knife an equal number of times on each side. Like 10 and 10. As it gets sharper I like to reduce that number down by a couple draws a time until your sharpening it 1 to 1. Like 10, 8, 6, 4 and so on.
My advice is to number one find someone to teach this to you in person. This is the easiest. Its really one of those things that is best learned in person.
Second, find a good youtube video. And practice yourself. Start with a knife that has a simple carbon blade. Something soft. Like an old hickory knife. Something cheap. That you wont mind f ing up. Lol. Or practicing on.
This is a good video to copy. And he has a great paper trick to find the correct angle for most knives.
https://youtu.be/GtSMCsWk2gw
Start by trying to mimic the angle of the cutting edge that is already there on the blade. Then slightly increase that angle to get the edge sliding across the stone. Meaning you dont want to slide the side of the knife across the stone. You want to be lightly grinding away at the very edge of the blade. You'll know if you start leaving scratches across the side of the blade. If that happens your angle isn't extreme enough. Your just sliding the side of the knife across the stone and not the cutting edge.
When i say slightly increasing the angle i mean like way less than half a mm. Slightly more extreme than whatever edge is on there. There are different angles of blade edge. Some thicker knives may be very different from a thin one.
The reason you want to learn this way is it gives you a very good sharp edge, can be used on any cutting device, can be done anywhere you are with a very small stone, or a smooth rock even.
My personal belief is that every person should know how to do this. Its a basic skill. And you aren't going to carry one of those fancy sharpening devices that keeps the perfect angle without trying - everytime your out. And what if you lose that device?
Axes are different. For daily axe use, a flat file will work fine. Same principles apply. But your moving the file along the blade. Not the blade across the file. Look up a YouTube video for that.
The key is don't be afraid to do this on your own. And practice alot. You'll be able to tell if your angle is to extreme as the edge will dig into the stone. Back off slightly and try to perfect your angle. And your stroke. So that its just slightly off of the point where the edge is grabbing into the stone.
You also have to adjust the stroke so that the entire knife edge gets passed along the stone. You will see this in the above video.
Lastly, test the edge before, during and after with two techniques.
1) Place the blade at a right angle to your thumb prints. Scratch the blade sideways across your thumb prints and you will be able to feel how sharp the blade is. Do this lightly. Don't cut yourself. But the sharper the blade the more it will fall down into each ridge of your thumb print. And you'll feel the tiny bumps of your thumb prints ridges.
When its dull you won't feel the ridges as you wipe the blade across your thumb. But as it gets sharper the ridges will really stand out. And you'll feel it. Because the sharper the blade the more it will fall into each tiny ridge as you slide it across sideways. You'll see him do this in the above video.
2) Hold a peice of paper firm in your index finger and thumb. Cut the paper close to where you are holding it. A dull blade will not cut paper. A semi dull blade will leave a rough edge. A sharp blade will cut it just like a very good pair of scissors. Leaving a clean edge. This isnt necessary as you will be able to tell just from sliding it sideways across your thumb print. But it does show how finely sharp you can get your edge.
The video also shows finishing the edge off with leather. But this is only to polish the fine edge of the blade and make it hair shaving sharp. I dont use my knives to cut hair. So I dont bother with this step. As im usually only cutting rope or wood with my knives.
You can also wipe a very thin layer of oil across the blade. To keep it corrosion resistant. Which helps if your in a moist or salty climate. Your edge can develop rust if left in the sheath for a very long period of time. And those rust pits will have to be ground out with a rougher stone. Moving down to a smoother stone to perfect the edge again.
Again, very good video and explanation.
What is the purpose of the oil on the stone? I see some listed as being able to be used "wet or dry"
I did find a diamond sharpener, I forgot I had, has a coarse and fine side, and slides into a handle.
Only thing I see wrong with it, is I'm Slipkid not Slipknot
Quote from: slipkid42 on April 21, 2022, 07:44:37 AMAgain, very good video and explanation.
What is the purpose of the oil on the stone? I see some listed as being able to be used "wet or dry"
I did find a diamond sharpener, I forgot I had, has a coarse and fine side, and slides into a handle.
Only thing I see wrong with it, is I'm Slipkid not Slipknot
Sorry will correct that.
Any sharpening or cutting of steel requires lubricant. I couldnt tell you the scientific reason why off the top of my head. And i havent had my coffee yet. But..
https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Should-I-Use-My-Sharpening-Stones-Wet-or-Dry-W115.aspx
I've always understood that stones needed some sort of lubricant to keep them from clogging and to help clean them.
I never really bothered to inquire any further from the old timers who told me that, so I'm not 100 percent on if it was true or not.
Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on April 21, 2022, 04:43:39 PMI've always understood that stones needed some sort of lubricant to keep them from clogging and to help clean them.
I never really bothered to inquire any further from the old timers who told me that, so I'm not 100 percent on if it was true or not.
Thats basically it. You can tell when your sharpening how much better it works with lube. And if you see an old stone with a big shallow spot worn in it. Its probably due to no one using lube. The stone will literally wear away where u are running your blade across.
One of the very cool things my father did for me. Was teach me to carry and sharpen a knife at a very young age. Basically as soon as i was able to physically control the knife i had a pocket knife and sharpening stone in my pocket.
The town butcher taught him.
Back then in small towns. At least in our small mountain town you had one grocery store. With a butcher. Who got sides of beef and cut everything by hand. Then packaged and priced it for sale. So he cut alot of meat. And really knew what he was doing. Those guys don't exist anymore. Only at big meat packing plants using generally disposable knives. And probably only doing one or two cuts in an assembly line.
The town grocery store also rented out freezer space in their lockers. That you could place your own packaged meat in. Whether it be beef you raised or wild game you got. It was right there in the same freezers that the grocery store sold meat out of. It was on the honor system. All your packages were marked as to what was in them and who owned them. So when you went to the grocery store to buy your groceries you picked up whatever meat of your own you wanted to cook at home.
This obviously wouldnt work today. But no one ever stole from each other. This was in a town of 800 people. Everyone knew everyone else.
The first town I ever lived in was sort of like that, Moab.
Place had maybe 100 people in it then and the population is even less now (there's maybe 50 people there now. Or at least there was the last time I was there. 2014 or so, I think ?).
If you've ever seen the movie "Tremors", the town in the movie is a lot like what the town I lived in was. Minus the Graboids and Burt Gummer, I mean. :smiley_crocodile:
The town i grew up in is still going strong. To strong actually. Its over an hour and a half up into the mountains from Seattle. But has seen real estate prices go out of control. My wife and i were going to move back there. But home prices start at about 400k. And this a pos in town from the 40s or 50s maybe. On a small lot.
I could have bought two homes on two different acres over the last 15 to 30 years. For 50k and 100k. And didn't for various reasons.
Its sad. No one can afford to live there anymore. Its Darrington WA. A place my family has come from since the 40s. But the pricing boom just happened in the last 5 to 10 years. Its really pretty far out too. I mean if you commuted to work it would be a grind. Long windy road to get back and forth.
We're looking at montana now. Way better land deals. More forest. And gun laws arent crazy. You cant even have a mag with more than 10rds in WA anymore. And you have to take a course or test to even buy a semi auto receiver. Or assault rifle. I dont remember which. Its like CA. Alot of people are moving away.
My entire family is in WA. Which i will miss dearly not living near. But we simply cant afford it. And the entire state is run by the politics in the big cities. Which disenfranchises two thirds of the state. The entire east side wants to secede.
Quote from: Moab on April 21, 2022, 02:51:39 PMQuote from: slipkid42 on April 21, 2022, 07:44:37 AMAgain, very good video and explanation.
What is the purpose of the oil on the stone? I see some listed as being able to be used "wet or dry"
I did find a diamond sharpener, I forgot I had, has a coarse and fine side, and slides into a handle.
Only thing I see wrong with it, is I'm Slipkid not Slipknot
Sorry will correct that.
Any sharpening or cutting of steel requires lubricant. I couldnt tell you the scientific reason why off the top of my head. And i havent had my coffee yet. But..
https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Should-I-Use-My-Sharpening-Stones-Wet-or-Dry-W115.aspx
Thanks :smiley_blink:
So with the ceramic discs, should oil be added to those sharpeners as well?
Quote from: slipkid42 on April 21, 2022, 08:20:25 PMQuote from: Moab on April 21, 2022, 02:51:39 PMQuote from: slipkid42 on April 21, 2022, 07:44:37 AMAgain, very good video and explanation.
What is the purpose of the oil on the stone? I see some listed as being able to be used "wet or dry"
I did find a diamond sharpener, I forgot I had, has a coarse and fine side, and slides into a handle.
Only thing I see wrong with it, is I'm Slipkid not Slipknot
Sorry will correct that.
Any sharpening or cutting of steel requires lubricant. I couldnt tell you the scientific reason why off the top of my head. And i havent had my coffee yet. But..
https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Should-I-Use-My-Sharpening-Stones-Wet-or-Dry-W115.aspx
Thanks :smiley_blink:
So with the ceramic discs, should oil be added to those sharpeners as well?
I dont think so. But check google. I have a tiny diamond sharpener thats basically a 1x4 piece of steel. That also does not require oil. I bought it as an ultralight way of carrying a sharpening stone. But i dont care for it much. It stays in one of my leatherman sheaths. And would probably do a good job with those surgically sharp blades. But orefer an actual stone for everything else.
There is a famous Alaskan trapper named Heimo Korth. Who has been hunting and trapping Alaska his entire life. They made a documentary about him. And he is one of the people on the tv ahow The Last Alaskans. He swears by a Leatherman only. Says there is no game you can't process with a Leatherman. From moose, caribou and everything smaller. He doesn't carry a knife. Otjer than the one that comes on his fairly average Leatherman. I dont know which one it is. But its not a Surge or 300 or anything. I will say the knives on a Leatherman are some of the sharpest knives I've ever seen.