A carry over from the old forum.
And note the answer isn't "Hurr durr" I just will shoot someone because I'll NEVER run out of ammo."
Knife- great utility as a tool, handy in close quarters, could be thrown if you are proficient in doing so.
Axe-same as knife especially as tool even more deadly as a weapon. I'm in the market for a Hultafors Classic at 20" perfect, sweet spot IMO.
But consider. "Nothing beats a good piece of hickory,.." Clint Eastwood, Pale Rider.
A properly formed piece of hardwood makes a damn fine piece of weaponry, Consider this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbLaj3EBYlU
Make from hickory these can be deadly. And yes, I'm going to my battle rifle/carbine, pistol, shotgun first. But "a tool for every need, and a need for every tool."
Note: I'm talking about the longer hickory ones, not a truncheon or a tonfa/modern nightstick one.
I thought about this alot a while back. And came to the conclusion that a short to medium length sword would do best.
I can't find the old bookmark for the one I finally decided on. But it was just over 2 to 2.5ft long. Had a long maybe 8 to 10 inch handle. And very sharp pointed end.
I stick would be good. But I think something steel that can cut is better.
Something like a long kukri is good. The ergonomics of a curved down blade and handle like that make it very easy to swing and cut. Defensively might not be the safest.
But a sword for sure. You don't want to get any closer than you have to so a short sword provides that. But a long sword would be to slow.
At least this was my experience when I slayed King Arthur. ;)
Some interesting yt vids on this subject. In fact one them that tests several blades also tested a piece if wood. And it performed better than anyone expected. But still. Something with an aedge and point is far better. I think. Because i have no idea. Lol.
I've got a few large blades (a trio of kukris, a couple machetes and various fixed blade knives), but no swords.
I'm not trained on any of them, though. I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to melee weapons. So anyone with even minimal training in melee combat is likely going to be able to beat me.
I like my old Vaughan 21 oz California framing hammer. Been swinging it for years. For heavy hits hold the handle and swing the head ( conventional swing) , light fast swings hold the head to swing the handle.It also works as a hammer or pry tool.
I am fond of sai. If you have some training with them, they are good for both defense and offense at the same time.
I buy into EDC knives as the most practical solution (especially if paired with a gun) but the problem with folders is trying to get them out and opened while someone is actively trying to F you up.
A small fixed blade, a push knife / TDI or even something like a fixed karambit are all simpler to get out and can't fail to lock open. For normal everyday life I'd say finding one of those is a strong idea. I carry a Fox karambit (mostly their Bastinelli, sometimes a 599) and while it does work reliably I keep looking at a Bastinelli Picouer / PiKa and the Ka-Bar TDI and wondering it they are more practical.
For like straight up fantasyland shit I'd want something like a smatchet or machete, and I would die quickly. I also would not turn down a thinner thrusting knife to stab zombies in the brain.
Quote from: Lodewijk on April 28, 2022, 04:23:08 PMI buy into EDC knives as the most practical solution (especially if paired with a gun) but the problem with folders is trying to get them out and opened while someone is actively trying to F you up.
A small fixed blade, a push knife / TDI or even something like a fixed karambit are all simpler to get out and can't fail to lock open. For normal everyday life I'd say finding one of those is a strong idea. I carry a Fox karambit (mostly their Bastinelli, sometimes a 599) and while it does work reliably I keep looking at a Bastinelli Picouer / PiKa and the Ka-Bar TDI and wondering it they are more practical.
For like straight up fantasyland shit I'd want something like a smatchet or machete, and I would die quickly. I also would not turn down a thinner thrusting knife to stab zombies in the brain.
I agree. A knife is better. But I think were talking after the ammo has run out. In that case I think something that will keep you fuethest away from your attacker is best. But not to long or youd be to slow getting it out. And to slow swining it.
But IRL I've started carrying a knife more. And recently found a cheap smith n wesson knifw that I had ignored. It has an assisted opening. Which I never knew how to operate until now. Wow. What a difference.
I had purchased a Spyderco folding knife. Just so i could use the big hole to open it with one hand. But after discovering assisted opening knives I've been looking for a good cheap one. Which i know is an oxymoron. But I really like these.
CIVIVI Baklash Flipper Folding Knife with 3.5" Satin Drop Point Blade and G10 Handles for Outdoor and DIY Activities(C801A) (OD Green) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SYJD4XV/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_523Z268ZEYEZ6QA0JX6K?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
They also have a bunch of other folders.
I just can't see myself spending more than $50 on a folding knife. I'm sorry. I just don't see the value. If i need to carve my way out of a downed aircraft. I'll use my ESEE 5. Lol. And honestly the nicest folder I own is this $17 knock off of a famous us made knife. I dont recall the original designers name. But this knife is way nicer than my Spyderco or Benchmade. Its $21 now tho.
Land 911 Pocket Knife Folding Knife 12C27 Blade G10 Handle Liner Lock Pocket EDC Knife (Army Green,G10) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y42TZ6W/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_VXVZ9Y87R6KC4DAEYHED
Lodwijk - I bought this machete a long time ago for $13. With the same thing in mind as you were talking about. It swings nice and has a point. But i have not sharpened it as of yet. It comes not sharp at all. I need to run it across my grinder. And stone sharpen it.
https://www.coldsteel.com/magnum-kukri-machete/
It reminds me alot of the caribou handled, leaf spring steel machete i got in jungle environmenal survical training in the Philippines when i was in the USMC. All my pics of it are on my desktop. Its much heavier. At least 1/4 inch steel. But with a soft kukri type curve to it. And enough of a point that it will stab.
This one isn't mine. But they look like this.
post-70-0-57992000-1431912533.jpg
A very rudimentary weapon. They make you purchase your own at the school. For $2!! At least back then in the 80s they did. Which we were all super stoked over. Its made out of old car or jeep leaf springs. And an actually quite effective wooden sheath. But the way they are balanced makes them very very easy to use. Its a heavy tool no doubt. But the angle makes it cut so much more on impact. That you dont have to swing it as hard as a regular straight machete. Its very ergonomic. And easy on the entire hand, wrist and arm.
Agree. I do think old-school things like a traditional Ka-Bar or Mark 3 trench knife, or modern spins like a Glock field knife, etc would be pretty usable and less of a burden to carry than things that are closer to a short sword than a big knife. Easy to fold into daily life, too. A sword... probably tougher.
Once you get up into the 7" range it sure ain't small (there's a softball for you). Lots of options around $100 too.
Quote from: Ghost on April 03, 2022, 05:24:50 PMA carry over from the old forum.
And note the answer isn't "Hurr durr" I just will shoot someone because I'll NEVER run out of ammo."
Knife- great utility as a tool, handy in close quarters, could be thrown if you are proficient in doing so.
Axe-same as knife especially as tool even more deadly as a weapon. I'm in the market for a Hultafors Classic at 20" perfect, sweet spot IMO.
But consider. "Nothing beats a good piece of hickory,.." Clint Eastwood, Pale Rider.
A properly formed piece of hardwood makes a damn fine piece of weaponry.
Make from hickory these can be deadly. And yes, I'm going to my battle rifle/carbine, pistol, shotgun first. But "a tool for every need, and a need for every tool."
Note: I'm talking about the longer hickory ones, not a truncheon or a tonfa/modern nightstick one.
I'd say that I'd prefer something like an axe, because who wouldn't, but honestly I'd be afraid I'd hurt myself as well. I'm also not a knife fighter, but as a kid I often hiked, and I always carried a well seasoned piece of Hedge (Osage Orange for some folks) about 40" long and around 2.5-3" around. I used it several times to deal with dogs etc, and it was a very solid piece of wood. To this day I have a similar piece behind the seat of my truck. I'd rather go to it first before my knife. If I'm going for my knife the situation has gotten dire indeed...
"Once you get up into the 7" range it sure ain't small (there's a softball for you). "
Ouch! (Thats the best I could do.) 🤣
"I do think old-school things like a traditional Ka-Bar or Mark 3 trench knife, or modern spins like a Glock field knife, etc would be pretty usable and less of a burden to carry than things that are closer to a short sword than a big knife. Easy to fold into daily life, too. A sword... probably tougher."
Oddly enough. I was never issued a kbar in the Marine Corps. I think they were afraid we'd actually use them. As in hurt ourselves or others. 🤪 (Why they rarely gave us ammo. Either.)
My father had a kbar when he was in. And had it for years after. But it was burned in a fire. I don't know what he ever did with the blade.
I bought one a couple years ago. But I'm pretty sure its a navy version though. 🐐🐫er's. ;) I think the Marine Corps kbars are more expensive. And more sought after. Iirc. This usgi stiff. Not commercially made. This was a few years ago that i was into it. The Marine ones often have USMC stamped in the blade near the hilt.
But overall, even with my entire lineage being Marine's, I'm not a big fan of the rat tail in the kbar. It was from a time when we were trying to mass produce weapons on a biblical scale. And conserve as much as possible on resources. But why they decided to skimp on the most famous fighting knife and not give it a full tang is beyond me.
But I think if it were fantasy paw land. I'd want a fixed blade on my waist and a short sword. But when i say "short sword" i dont mean the traditional medieval short sword with a broad blade. I just mean any sword thats short. So you can handle it with some speed.
(I can't believe i just found this.) But like this. This was the one I decided on a few years ago. Total fantasyland. I would never spend that much on something so far fetched. And its a custom order you'd have to wait for. But pretty good for the job if it ever came to no more bullets:
https://sbg-sword-store.sword-buyers-guide.com/product1176.html
defender1.jpg
I also think a short katana would be nice. But without the hard angle blade tip. I don't know what thats called. But I have two crkt kiss knives with those blades. And i have no idea how to sharpen them.
istockphoto-1056032868-1024x1024.jpg
I suspect the rat tail thing on Ka-Bars is somewhat overstated. No, it isn't the same thing as my bush knife, but it's beefier than a lot of Moras and nobody questions those.
I've had a stereotypical USMC example since I was a kid in Civil Air Patrol in the 90s... everyone had to have a cool-guy knife on their web gear, which at the time meant a USAF survival knife or a Ka-Bar (technically the regs said it was too big but nobody cared IIRC).
Did a whole lot of BushClass over at BCUSA with it, too, before I could get my hands on a "better" knife.
I think the biggest drawback to a typical Ka-Bar is really the guard - it just gets in the way most of the time. The D2 version fixes this very nicely and is a nice knife overall... speaking of BCUSA, somebody over there has a thread detailing how they used a serrated D2 Ka-Bar hard for like three years, baton work and all. It eventually broke in the middle of the blade, at the height of one of the serrations. The tang held up fine.
I would not be eager to get in a fight with a knife, mind you.
Full apocalypse... you are probably right, a short sword, a shield, and a few buddies might be the right ticket. I can see something like a gladius being easiest to use like that but again, I'd probably just die.
I like the staff idea but there ain't many hardwood trees where I live.
"Quote from: Lodewijk on 4/28/2022, 8:57:14 PMI suspect the rat tail thing on Ka-Bars is somewhat..."
When I first read BCUSA. I thought Boy Scouts of America. Lol. But quickly realized you meant Bushcraft USA. (I'm a member over there too.) I was in the boy scouts as a kid. In my town every young boy was in the boy scouts. But first it was Weblos. I have no idea what that meant. But if you were to young to join the boy scouts you started there. It was like the junior branch of boy scouts. Then if you got thru boy scouts you went into explorer scouts.
My dad was an explorer scout leader. I got to go with him on every trip and outing they did. It was cool as a kid.
We lived way up in the mountains. My father and grandfather were trappers the first 3 or 4 years of my life. I remember watching my mother stretch beaver pelts over wood hoops. And hanging them on our pole barn garage. So I kind of already knew all the stuff you had to do in boy scouts. Except i sucked at knot tieing. Lol. I know like three knots - a barrel knot, a palomar and a square knot. Lol. I'm literally terrible and remebering how to do knots.
I agree about the kbars. And the D2 is a very nice looking knife. Didnt kbar do a full tang version of the kbar? Is the D2 full tang?
I agree about the mora comment too. I love my mora. I have a solid green military version that I have seen very few of. I found out about them i think after they stopped making them. But i found one on this obscure little site. And bought it for like 16 bucks? Its just a normal length mora 3.5 or 4 inch blade. But the handle on this one is nicer. A little farter and nicely round. No indents on the sides. But its one of the sharpest knives i own. So sharp. That scandi grind and swedish or whatever it is steel. Sweet knife.
And honestly. I never baton wood. I just use littler sticks. Until the fire is big enough for a log. I don't think I have any knives that i would put thru that kind of abuse.
Except for maybe my esee 5. That thing is like a slab of steel. Its really almost to big to carry. Same with that Phillipines machete.They are both about the same thickness. And the esee 5 is really only meant to be a downed pilot, trapped in his cockpit, and I've gotta cut my way out of this aluminum airplane body to escape - kind of knife. Lol.
But I had to have it. I later bought the newer esee 4 with the bushcraft handle. Thats a nice knife in the hand. You could do alot with it. And its a nice thickness between the esee 5 and something to thin. Its kind of just right. The thing about most esee's up until they oroduced the bushcraft style handles. Is all their scales really suck. It was meant to be a cooy of the suoer utilitarian ontario rat. But those square scales hurt your hands terrible. They have fairly sharp square edges. I actually bought g10 scales for my esee 5. That are way more rounded. And alot more comfortable in the hand. I wish they were micarta tho.
I saw a knife yesterday that I like the looks of.
https://theknifeconnection.com/bradford-knives-guardian-3-3d-m390-steel-drop-point-sabre-grind-stonewash-blade-finish-3d-od-green-micarta-handle-tumbled-fasteners/
Screenshot_20220429-015502_Chrome.jpg
Its a bradford guardian 3. With a 3.5 inch blade tho. I wish it was 4. They make a 4.5 but it doesnt look nearly as nice as this one. The handle looks very ergonomic. And i really like the shape, grind and point of the blade.
Something like this would be a good all around blade for carrying sideways on your belt. Check out its sheath. Its like a half sideways carry. I dont know what they call that. But it looks quicker to draw. It looks like it would be a good bushcraft knife. But you could still stab things with it. Lol.
I also like the claw hammer idea above. Only problem is getting that thing out once you've driven it home. I think you'd get it stuck to easy. Lol
WEBELOS stands for We'll Be Loyal Scouts.
It is the last rank in cub scouts before you cross over to Boy Scouts.
Quote from: slipkid42 on April 29, 2022, 10:17:01 AMWEBELOS stands for We'll Be Loyal Scouts.
It is the last rank in cub scouts before you cross over to Boy Scouts.
Indeed it is, but technically the highest rank you can get in Cub Scouts is Arrow of Light Scout, a WEBELOS II that completed additional requirements.
Quote from: slipkid42 on April 29, 2022, 10:17:01 AMWEBELOS stands for We'll Be Loyal Scouts.
It is the last rank in cub scouts before you cross over to Boy Scouts.
Ah. Thank you. :)
Speaking of hammers, I found myself in the hardware section of the local Walmart and saw a couple claw hammers that looked interesting.
The two I looked at had the claw pointed straight out (like the spike you'd see on the back of a tomahawk) instead of at an angle like you normally see. I figure if one were to drive one of those claws into something, there'd probably be less of a chance of getting it stuck.
Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on April 29, 2022, 02:51:43 PMSpeaking of hammers, I found myself in the hardware section of the local Walmart and saw a couple claw hammers that looked interesting.
The two I looked at had the claw pointed straight out (like the spike you'd see on the back of a tomahawk) instead of at an angle like you normally see. I figure if one were to drive one of those claws into something, there'd probably be less of a chance of getting it stuck.
Can you post a link or pic? Would love to see that. Hard to picture tho.
Quote from: Moab on April 29, 2022, 06:49:56 PMQuote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on April 29, 2022, 02:51:43 PMSpeaking of hammers, I found myself in the hardware section of the local Walmart and saw a couple claw hammers that looked interesting.
The two I looked at had the claw pointed straight out (like the spike you'd see on the back of a tomahawk) instead of at an angle like you normally see. I figure if one were to drive one of those claws into something, there'd probably be less of a chance of getting it stuck.
Can you post a link or pic? Would love to see that. Hard to picture tho.
Let me see if I can find a pic of one.
If not, I'll take a pic of one the next time I'm at Walmart.
Quote from: Ghost on April 29, 2022, 02:46:40 PMQuote from: slipkid42 on April 29, 2022, 10:17:01 AMWEBELOS stands for We'll Be Loyal Scouts.
It is the last rank in cub scouts before you cross over to Boy Scouts.
Indeed it is, but technically the highest rank you can get in Cub Scouts is Arrow of Light Scout, a WEBELOS II that completed additional requirements.
Thanks, I forgot that they now call it a new rank, it's been awhile, my son just made Eagle this month.
Here's what I'm talking about, Moab.
The claw is still angled, but not as steep as you'd normally see on a hammer.
20220429_194723.jpg
I have the Stanley Fatmax Fubar III Utility Bar (https://www.stanleytools.com/product/55-120/30-stanley-fatmax-fubar-utility-bar) on my "to buy" list, I just haven't sprung for one yet. At least once a year I end up with a project (either of my own, or for a friend/family member) where it would be useful to have something like that, but I forget about it until it comes up again. It does seem that it would make a pretty good melee weapon too!
(https://www.stanleytools.com/NAG/PRODUCT/IMAGES/HIRES/55-120/55-120_1.jpg)
Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on April 29, 2022, 02:51:43 PMSpeaking of hammers, I found myself in the hardware section of the local Walmart and saw a couple claw hammers that looked interesting.
The two I looked at had the claw pointed straight out (like the spike you'd see on the back of a tomahawk) instead of at an angle like you normally see. I figure if one were to drive one of those claws into something, there'd probably be less of a chance of getting it stuck.
Sounds a lot like a framing hammer. (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71ul5VQ+UML._AC_SL1500_.jpg)
Went looking for an M3 fighting knife clone to use as a beater (turns out there's like two options, Boker in SK5 and Ontario in 1095)... ran into something interesting that I had not read before. You guys probably all know this but knife history is way outside my lane, so I didn't.
Apparently, pretty quickly after the adoption of the famous V42... the 2nd Marine Raider Battalion went out and procured different / bigger knives (ex: Collins #18, which is like 14" long with a 9" blade) for both utility tasks and combat.
Thrusting weapons are neat but that tidbit does seem to validate that a big generalist knife, or a small machete, is probably a lot more practical. Revelation of the century, I know.
I know we're talking no ammo situations but even there, you still have to live your daily life. Seems like the sweet spot for "big enough to defend myself with" and "small enough to carry every day" might be a big utility knife or something the size of a compact machete / shortsword.
Like a seax in concept, maybe? That would make some sense I guess.
My personal choice is an 1860 style US Navy CPO cutlas. I received one years ago from my grandfather. About 30 years ago i had the handle an guard repinned.
Cold Steel makes modern quality reproductions. It is short enough to be handy and long enough for reach. The blade is sharp albeit with a utility edge.
YMMV
Quote from: Nyte on April 30, 2022, 09:07:03 AMQuote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on April 29, 2022, 02:51:43 PMSpeaking of hammers, I found myself in the hardware section of the local Walmart and saw a couple claw hammers that looked interesting.
The two I looked at had the claw pointed straight out (like the spike you'd see on the back of a tomahawk) instead of at an angle like you normally see. I figure if one were to drive one of those claws into something, there'd probably be less of a chance of getting it stuck.
Sounds a lot like a framing hammer. (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71ul5VQ+UML._AC_SL1500_.jpg)
Oh, so those are called framing hammers ?
I've always called them claw hammers. I never realized there was a name for them.
Quote from: Lodewijk on 4/30/2022, 7:41:31 AMWent looking for an M3 fighting knife clone to use as a beater (turns out there's like two options, Boker in SK5 and Ontario in 1095)... ran into something interesting that I had not read before. You guys probably all know this but knife history is way outside my lane, so I didn't.Apparently, pretty quickly after the adoption of the famous V42... the 2nd Marine Raider Battalion went out and procured different / bigger knives (ex: Collins #18, which is like 14" long with a 9" blade) for both utility tasks and combat.Thrusting weapons are neat but that tidbit does seem to validate that a big generalist knife, or a small machete, is probably a lot more practical. Revelation of the century, I know.I know we're talking no ammo situations but even there, you still have to live your daily life. Seems like the sweet spot for "big enough to defend myself with" and "small enough to carry every day" might be a big utility knife or something the size of a compact machete / shortsword. Like a seax in concept, maybe? That would make some sense I guess.
This was during wwii. Which is cool. My grandfather was in the Corps in the south pacific.
FB_IMG_1650248811994.jpg
But that knife is ridiculous. Lol. Having been in the Marine Corps. I can tell you. Not all of their decisions are sound ones. Lol. ;)
That knife is to big and heavy for a fighting knife. Or it would still be being used. I think thats a case of "mine is bigger!" syndrome. ;)
A cool knife. But thats a throwback to bowie knives of the wild west days. Those jarheads in wwii were a wild bunch. Especially the Raiders. They were the first marine recon unit.
He was being a smart ass in that picture his helmut is on backwards.
I was watching "Saving Private Ryan" the other day and I noticed the sniper (Jackson, I think is his name) had a pretty nice blade on his web gear.
It had a stag handle and was definitely not GI issued. Not even sure what a GI issued fixed blade would've been for those guys. I know the Marines got Kabars (of which I still want one.), but I'm not sure what the rest of them got. Aside from the M1 Garand bayonet, I mean.
Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on April 30, 2022, 04:57:31 PMI was watching "Saving Private Ryan" the other day and I noticed the sniper (Jackson, I think is his name) had a pretty nice blade on his web gear.
It had a stag handle and was definitely not GI issued. Not even sure what a GI issued fixed blade would've been for those guys. I know the Marines got Kabars (of which I still want one.), but I'm not sure what the rest of them got. Aside from the M1 Garand bayonet, I mean.
Rangers and paratroopers got first crack at M3s when they entered service I think.
Quote from: Lodewijk on April 30, 2022, 05:14:28 PMQuote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on April 30, 2022, 04:57:31 PMI was watching "Saving Private Ryan" the other day and I noticed the sniper (Jackson, I think is his name) had a pretty nice blade on his web gear.
It had a stag handle and was definitely not GI issued. Not even sure what a GI issued fixed blade would've been for those guys. I know the Marines got Kabars (of which I still want one.), but I'm not sure what the rest of them got. Aside from the M1 Garand bayonet, I mean.
Rangers and paratroopers got first crack at M3s when they entered service I think.
I've seen a few photos where GIs have what looks like privately purchased knives, which would explain the knife on Jackson's web gear in "Saving Private Ryan".
I wonder what the process for that was back then. Probably entailed filling out some paperwork and making sure the knife fell within some parameters for use.
Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on April 30, 2022, 06:07:16 PMQuote from: Lodewijk on April 30, 2022, 05:14:28 PMQuote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on April 30, 2022, 04:57:31 PMI was watching "Saving Private Ryan" the other day and I noticed the sniper (Jackson, I think is his name) had a pretty nice blade on his web gear.
It had a stag handle and was definitely not GI issued. Not even sure what a GI issued fixed blade would've been for those guys. I know the Marines got Kabars (of which I still want one.), but I'm not sure what the rest of them got. Aside from the M1 Garand bayonet, I mean.
Rangers and paratroopers got first crack at M3s when they entered service I think.
I've seen a few photos where GIs have what looks like privately purchased knives, which would explain the knife on Jackson's web gear in "Saving Private Ryan".
I wonder what the process for that was back then. Probably entailed filling out some paperwork and making sure the knife fell within some parameters for use.
My read is that it was pretty loose for combat units. Lots of anecdotal stories of guys getting mailed pistols and whatnot from the US (happens on-screen in Band of Brothers I think). Never underestimate government brain damage, but I kind of doubt paperwork was a big concern in a lot of places during the war.
Quote from: Lodewijk on April 30, 2022, 06:24:23 PMQuote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on April 30, 2022, 06:07:16 PMQuote from: Lodewijk on April 30, 2022, 05:14:28 PMQuote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on April 30, 2022, 04:57:31 PMI was watching "Saving Private Ryan" the other day and I noticed the sniper (Jackson, I think is his name) had a pretty nice blade on his web gear.
It had a stag handle and was definitely not GI issued. Not even sure what a GI issued fixed blade would've been for those guys. I know the Marines got Kabars (of which I still want one.), but I'm not sure what the rest of them got. Aside from the M1 Garand bayonet, I mean.
Rangers and paratroopers got first crack at M3s when they entered service I think.
I've seen a few photos where GIs have what looks like privately purchased knives, which would explain the knife on Jackson's web gear in "Saving Private Ryan".
I wonder what the process for that was back then. Probably entailed filling out some paperwork and making sure the knife fell within some parameters for use.
My read is that it was pretty loose for combat units. Lots of anecdotal stories of guys getting mailed pistols and whatnot from the US (happens on-screen in Band of Brothers I think). Never underestimate government brain damage, but I kind of doubt paperwork was a big concern in a lot of places during the war.
Alot of guys during that war got weapons from home. It wasnt as a big a deal as it is now. I think thats when alot of guys had clear lexan pistol grips with photos of wives, GFs and scantily clad stars under them.
Oh yeah, "Sweetheart" grips is what those were called.
I saw a set of those on an old Remington-Rand 1911 at a gun show years ago. They weren't original to the gun and the seller had no idea who the people in the pictures were, so I didn't really ask many questions. Kind of regret not buying that gun, but I didn't have enough cash to buy it at the time.
On the topic of melee weapons, I kind of want to build my own version of a WW1 trench club. I'd also like to make a mace, but I lack a welder and knowledge on how to use one, so that's pretty much out.
ETA: Had to fix a spelling mistake. Meant to say mace instead of Mac.
Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on April 30, 2022, 07:54:30 PMOh yeah, "Sweetheart" grips is what those were called.
I saw a set of those on an old Remington-Rand 1911 at a gun show years ago. They weren't original to the gun and the seller had no idea who the people in the pictures were, so I didn't really ask many questions. Kind of regret not buying that gun, but I didn't have enough cash to buy it at the time.
On the topic of melee weapons, I kind of want to build my own version of a WW1 trench club. I'd also like to make a Mac, but I lack a welder and knowledge on how to use one, so that's pretty much out.
If you ever want to learn how to build firearms. Go to the forum www.weaponsguild.com Its a fantastic forum. With really really nice people that help each other out alot. I've been a member over there for years. Its the largest gun building forum on the internet. But very quiet. And don't be a jerk in the least. Or you'll get banned. Lol ;) which is my favorite thing about it. Its the only other forum I know of - besides zs)ufozs that is moderated well. Meaning no politics or religion. And you have to be helpful to one another. Any bs and your gone. Its the nicest geoup of people I've ever known on the internet. Which is pretty funny that its also the best gun building for on the net. They build everything from . 50 cal anti aircraft guns to homebuild designs of . 22s. All legal and semi auto of course.
I just posted a pretty good melee weapon to bargains and deals. An 18" cold steel metal bat for $18.39.
https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=807.0#new
Quote from: Moab on April 30, 2022, 09:30:03 PMQuote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on April 30, 2022, 07:54:30 PMOh yeah, "Sweetheart" grips is what those were called.
I saw a set of those on an old Remington-Rand 1911 at a gun show years ago. They weren't original to the gun and the seller had no idea who the people in the pictures were, so I didn't really ask many questions. Kind of regret not buying that gun, but I didn't have enough cash to buy it at the time.
On the topic of melee weapons, I kind of want to build my own version of a WW1 trench club. I'd also like to make a Mac, but I lack a welder and knowledge on how to use one, so that's pretty much out.
If you ever want to learn how to build firearms. Go to the forum www.weaponsguild.com Its a fantastic forum. With really really nice people that help each other out alot. I've been a member over there for years. Its the largest gun building forum on the internet. But very quiet. And don't be a jerk in the least. Or you'll get banned. Lol ;) which is my favorite thing about it. Its the only other forum I know of - besides zs)ufozs that is moderated well. Meaning no politics or religion. And you have to be helpful to one another. Any bs and your gone. Its the nicest geoup of people I've ever known on the internet. Which is pretty funny that its also the best gun building for on the net. They build everything from . 50 cal anti aircraft guns to homebuild designs of . 22s. All legal and semi auto of course.
That's supposed to say "Mace", but for some reason it came out Mac. :smiley_crocodile:
So I've always favored clubs. In m truck I keep a dedicated club that I fashioned out of a broken axe haft. I also keep a stout walking stick. I made the walking stick when I was suffering from a bad case of plantar fadciitis. That also was when I put together my GHB . It's 13 miles from my work to home and probably would have hade to stop overnight at least once because of the pain. The axe club is hickory and the walking stick is either persimmon, Hackberry or Locust.I don't remember which. I included my hatchet for size and because it also would be a melee weapon.
IMG_20220501_101104282.jpg IMG_20220501_101104282.jpg IMG_20220501_101104282.jpg
In my house I also have a pair of clubs
The long one is also made from an axe haft. I liked the short one in the truck so much I bought a new haft and made it into a club. It sits next to my chair in the living room. The short one I bought for my wife off amazon. But she didn't like it so it sits next the bed headboard. I find it too short and would most likely reach for the also included edged weapon. A Barong ,which sits next to it
Regarding melee weapons, this video popped up in my recommended videos list on YouTube and it's pretty neat.
Dude makes a medieval style war hammer out of some plumbing pipe and a wooden dowel.
https://youtu.be/xQde1xCw7yM
Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on May 07, 2022, 11:33:30 AMRegarding melee weapons, this video popped up in my recommended videos list on YouTube and it's pretty neat.
Dude makes a medieval style war hammer out of some plumbing pipe and a wooden dowel.
https://youtu.be/xQde1xCw7yM
That's pretty cool. I don't think I would use a dowel rod as the handle, they are prone to breaking, unless you can find a good hardwood one. IIRC most dowels are pine.
Quote from: Nyte on May 07, 2022, 02:45:45 PMQuote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on May 07, 2022, 11:33:30 AMRegarding melee weapons, this video popped up in my recommended videos list on YouTube and it's pretty neat.
Dude makes a medieval style war hammer out of some plumbing pipe and a wooden dowel.
https://youtu.be/xQde1xCw7yM
That's pretty cool. I don't think I would use a dowel rod as the handle, they are prone to breaking, unless you can find a good hardwood one. IIRC most dowels are pine.
I'd probably use something else than a dowel rod too.
It'd weigh more, but I'd think another length of plumbing pipe might work better than a dowel rod.
Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on May 07, 2022, 02:51:21 PMQuote from: Nyte on May 07, 2022, 02:45:45 PMQuote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on May 07, 2022, 11:33:30 AMRegarding melee weapons, this video popped up in my recommended videos list on YouTube and it's pretty neat.
Dude makes a medieval style war hammer out of some plumbing pipe and a wooden dowel.
https://youtu.be/xQde1xCw7yM
That's pretty cool. I don't think I would use a dowel rod as the handle, they are prone to breaking, unless you can find a good hardwood one. IIRC most dowels are pine.
I'd probably use something else than a dowel rod too.
It'd weigh more, but I'd think another length of plumbing pipe might work better than a dowel rod.
The problem with another length of pipe wouldn't be the weight, but the vibration. Anytime you hit something, it would jar and vibrate right through your hand and arm. It'd cost more, but I'd probably get a hardwood Jo staff or Escrima stick and use that for the handle.
Yeah, I didn't even think of the vibration issue with using another length of pipe for the handle.
But something like an Escrima stick or Jo staff would work a lot better than the pipe or the dowel.
I got myself a Corona folding saw (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B084DVY7QW) recently and while I was unpacking it, I realized that it would make a nasty improvised weapon. The teeth on the saw are razor sharp and if you swung it like a machete, it could really do some damage, particularly if you hit someone in the face or neck.
Quote from: EBuff75 on August 30, 2022, 06:34:45 PMI got myself a Corona folding saw (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B084DVY7QW) recently and while I was unpacking it, I realized that it would make a nasty improvised weapon. The teeth on the saw are razor sharp and if you swung it like a machete, it could really do some damage, particularly if you hit someone in the face or neck.
Isn't that sort of the general idea behind the Spyderco Civilian? Sounds nasty.
Quote from: Lodewijk on August 30, 2022, 07:37:02 PMQuote from: EBuff75 on August 30, 2022, 06:34:45 PMI got myself a Corona folding saw (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B084DVY7QW) recently and while I was unpacking it, I realized that it would make a nasty improvised weapon. The teeth on the saw are razor sharp and if you swung it like a machete, it could really do some damage, particularly if you hit someone in the face or neck.
Isn't that sort of the general idea behind the Spyderco Civilian? Sounds nasty.
Basically. Except this is 10-inches long, with a full hand (or double-hand) grip. It doesn't have the point/hook on the end though!
Quote from: Lodewijk on August 30, 2022, 07:37:02 PMQuote from: EBuff75 on August 30, 2022, 06:34:45 PMI got myself a Corona folding saw (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B084DVY7QW) recently and while I was unpacking it, I realized that it would make a nasty improvised weapon. The teeth on the saw are razor sharp and if you swung it like a machete, it could really do some damage, particularly if you hit someone in the face or neck.
Isn't that sort of the general idea behind the Spyderco Civilian? Sounds nasty.
Damn...now that is a mean looking knife. :eek1:
The most important aspects are availability (which includes legal aspects- swords are not legal in a lot of places), reach (knife or hammer or tomahawk/hatchet not enough), and speed (a lot of things are heavy and slower i.e. hatchet).
Some heavier, shorter options may have more damage power, but won't get there in time, and are shorter. And realistically once that first hit gets in and shocks, it doesn't have to be one hit one kill to be effective. It's not a Zombie headstrike you need to be planning for.
If you don't want to be too destructive- the Cold Steel sjambok with a knife as backup (sjambok = speed plus reach, targeting head and hands).
Or there's also a spear. Often legal (because of original inhabitants in colonised countries- traditional weapons etc...), as long as you don't walk down the street with it.
https://condortk.com/products?type=3
Awesome reach, and very quick if you let it slip through your front hand.
I was at the local auto parts store this morning with my oldest nephew and while perusing the aisles, I found a pick and finishing hammer in the dent repair section.
First thought in my head was "I wonder how well or how poorly this would work as a melee weapon."
(https://www.oknife.com/cdn/shop/files/1_bf0aaea0-29e0-4a07-861a-1f2c76b10b22.jpg?v=1713522972&width=1214) (https://www.olightstore.com/otacle-a1-multifunctional-hatchet)
My melee weapon of choice after my cane.
Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on August 07, 2024, 04:24:38 PMI was at the local auto parts store this morning with my oldest nephew and while perusing the aisles, I found a pick and finishing hammer in the dent repair section.
First thought in my head was "I wonder how well or how poorly this would work as a melee weapon."
Well you're thoroughly desensitized/looking out for such things.
How would it compare with the Estwing rockpick? was my first thought.
A lot of these hatchets/hammers/tomahawks etc.. It's all about your biceps/steroids, the length of the handle (you can saw wooden handles to make them shorter) and the weight of the head. Reach vs speed vs damage/weight.
NT2C- why are you letting me track your jeep? You're being too trustworthy.
I could be a porch pirate and getting your cool stuff whilst you're away (unless your granny is sitting on your porch in a rocking chair with the shotgun). I know about glitter bombs.
(I'm 16,000km/10,000miles away so you don't need to worry).
Quote from: Red Tamarillo on August 13, 2024, 09:59:27 AMQuote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on August 07, 2024, 04:24:38 PMI was at the local auto parts store this morning with my oldest nephew and while perusing the aisles, I found a pick and finishing hammer in the dent repair section.
First thought in my head was "I wonder how well or how poorly this would work as a melee weapon."
Well you're thoroughly desensitized/looking out for such things.
How would it compare with the Estwing rockpick? was my first thought.
A lot of these hatchets/hammers/tomahawks etc.. It's all about your biceps/steroids, the length of the handle (you can saw wooden handles to make them shorter) and the weight of the head. Reach vs speed vs damage/weight.
I'm halfway tempted to go back to the store I found the hammer/pick in and buy it so I can do some testing with it.
Only Estwing things I have are a tanto fixed blade and a tomahawk I bought from the local heavy equipment rental shop.
I could probably do a comparison with the spike on the tomahawk vs. the one on the dent hammer.
Quote from: Red Tamarillo on August 13, 2024, 10:14:09 AMNT2C- why are you letting me track your jeep? You're being too trustworthy.
I could be a porch pirate and getting your cool stuff whilst you're away (unless your granny is sitting on your porch in a rocking chair with the shotgun). I know about glitter bombs.
(I'm 16,000km/10,000miles away so you don't need to worry).
If someone wants to try getting packages off my porch or cause a ruckus at my place, I hope they've made their peace with their deity of choice. I'll just point out:
- My wife is a Fed
- My best friend is a retired USMC Armed and Unarmed Combat instructor and now a Fed LEO
- There's like a gazillion cameras covering every approach to my house, some visible, a lot hidden
- My neighbor to the South is a retired USMC Master Gunnery Sgt. who now works for a company building military robots... that he can take home for field testing
- My neighbor to the East is a retired USMC Colonel and the boss of my neighbor to the south.
- My neighbor to the West is a retired USMC sniper
- My neighbor to the North was the neighbor to the West's spotter
- I am well-liked by my neighbors because my military time was served on amphibs carrying guys like these around
- One of my other good friends is a retired FBI pilot who now teaches military pilots how to fly Blackhawks from the local airfield. He uses my flagpole as a nav marker and likes to pass by just above treetop height.
In short, your best option is to live 10,000 miles away, or tunnel in. Good luck getting through that Virginia clay. :greenguy:
That's an impressive tally of neighbours.
Quote from: Red Tamarillo on August 13, 2024, 10:41:54 PMThat's an impressive tally of neighbours.
Fun guys to hang with, and their wives are equally impressive.
My best friend's wife is a retired Army Combat Medic, for example.
Edit: County sheriff used to live about 8 houses up from me but he passed away a few years back. The grandfather of the county clerk lives 4 houses down though, and the new County sheriff is one block over, next door to a state trooper.
This really is a great neighborhood during an "interesting time".
Edit 2: The county treasurer dropped by last night just to shoot the shit at the end of my driveway while his wife walked their new puppies, then he helped me bring my trash cans back up to the house. They're also neighbors.
They recently took the machetes away (i.e. banned) where I live (youth crime). The youths aren't going to give them up. Prior to that the 18 inch bladed latin style machete was a good option (doesn't need to be sci fi or too pointy), and good for the garden/camping. The politicians who made the ruling aren't gardeners or campers.
But recently I discovered I could get swords (with a sword license). (You can still have machetes with the sword license too, you're just not allowed to use them- even in your own fenced back garden).
Anyways I've been looking into Messer type blades (lots of historical info out there). There's all the HEMA stuff too (historical European martial arts- mostly with blades/poleaxes etc..).
There seems to be commonalities in the ideas behind Messer use i.e. you do a strike, knock the opposition blade off, and follow up with a thrust. And using your other hand to grab the other person/weapon hand after a strike too sometimes. Probably need to study the filipino ideas of criss crossing the face etc...
One handed does end up with giving you more reach most of the time, due to body mechanics.
But legally speaking, also live in a country where you're not allowed to plan for active self defense. You're allowed to put bars and locks and strengthen doors and large dog i.e. passive self defense, but not to stash a sword somewhere.
You're 'allowed' to plan for other threats against your home and family i.e. floods, power cuts, bushfires etc... just not human ones.
Which the older I get seems more absurd, and disrespectful of the intelligence of the people living here watching the local news.
As every week there's another home invasion in the news here (4 to 5 young guys 4am in the morning, usually armed with machete, hammer, knives etc... usually not guns). Going for fast/luxury cars mostly, only occasionally access to a safe. There haven't been as many deaths of homeowners as you'd think (though any death is too much).
So if you're legally allowed, my vote is now for the one handed sword, with some kind of hand protection (doesn't need to be basket). Of a length longer than 18" blade, but not too long to be unwieldy.
Ordinary people in the stress of mass combat cut and hack more than thrust (from my reading of historical sword accounts). But an afterthrust or two seems to be good to consider.
So these home invaders will have machetes? I'd go with anything a little longer. A cricket or baseball bat and stay legal for at least the next year until they make you get a license to own those? :eek1:
These were designed for digging, and to be used as mele weapons. Get a couple at a milsurp store.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%2Fid%2FOIP.gTQN4N7-oyYZXEulJopc7gHaHv%3Fpid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=d00a45ccf6d00f4c753fdd96eafb5884d9b86e5543d242c841bbcd3a123e3672&ipo=images)
Quote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on April 30, 2022, 06:07:16 PMQuote from: Lodewijk on April 30, 2022, 05:14:28 PMQuote from: 12_Gauge_Chimp on April 30, 2022, 04:57:31 PMI was watching "Saving Private Ryan" the other day and I noticed the sniper (Jackson, I think is his name) had a pretty nice blade on his web gear.
It had a stag handle and was definitely not GI issued. Not even sure what a GI issued fixed blade would've been for those guys. I know the Marines got Kabars (of which I still want one.), but I'm not sure what the rest of them got. Aside from the M1 Garand bayonet, I mean.
Rangers and paratroopers got first crack at M3s when they entered service I think.
I've seen a few photos where GIs have what looks like privately purchased knives, which would explain the knife on Jackson's web gear in "Saving Private Ryan".
I wonder what the process for that was back then. Probably entailed filling out some paperwork and making sure the knife fell within some parameters for use.
In early '42, ads started appearing in the newspapers asking for folks to donate hunting knives for the soldiers; meanwhile, the cutlerys were amping up production, but getting enough knives for everyone was a slow process and it wasn't until after the war that there was actually a "standard" knife. Sailors, for example, were required to carry a 6" sideknife (there was still a lot of rope used, and it could be necessary to cut it away in event of damage to the ship, someone getting caught, etc). Pilots typically carried a 5" knife. Marines and infantry carried what they could find.
As a kid I knew guys who went to Guadalcanal in the initial wave carrying "sticking knives" (double edged knife used in slaughtering to "stick" animals, resulting in exsanguination), the Marbles "Experts" and "Ideals" they got in scouting, etc. Almost all infantry and marines in combat zones did have a folding knife (usually either a "scout knife" or a 2-blade easy-opening knife.
By late '42, cutlerys were making as many 6" fixed-blade knives as they could, with a sideline in 5" knives. Folks were making knives and selling or donating them to the troops. Through the end of the war many people were still bringing knives from home, buying them in the BX/PX, or "acquiring" them however they could.
The knives were, in general, good knives. Not uniform, but they served their purpose. A lot are still in the field today.
I've always thought the concerns about the stick tang of the KaBar was overblown. I've known a number of people who've abused the heck out of them without managing to break the tang. The stick tang wasn't a wartime effort to save materials, it was copied from the design of the Marbles "Ideal" and similar knives, which inspired or informed the design of the KaBar. Stick tangs made it easy to use the preferred handle material: stacked leather washers. The leather handles used scrap leather from the manufacture of footwear, and was non-flammable. Per the post-war records, the biggest problem with the stick-tanged knives seems to have been a tendency for the blades to rust and the leather to rot away.
And yeah, folks were mailing handguns to the soldiers. There were no federal laws against it (some military regulations though). Lots of handguns were picked up from POWs, or confiscated from civilians. (I have it on good authority that it is easier to shoot a free-roaming Italian or Filipino chicken with a Colt Woodsman than it is to run it down and catch it.)
This actually reminds me of Confederate D guard bowie knives history i.e. in the first few years of the US Civil war local people in the South supplied through local blacksmiths etc... these individually made big mad looking D guard bowie knives to their local boys going off to war.
They weren't regulation, there were many different variants from local makers given/sold etc..
(After a while they were discarded apparently as the soldiers had other stuff to carry).
If I'm going full Medieval I'm doing Medieval things. Melee weapons need to follow form and usefulness just like a firearm does.
When travelling typically a soldier or guard would carry a spear. This worked well with a trained group. Add a few archers and you had plenty of security. People didn't often travel lone wolf style.
I have two spears, one light, almost a javelin and second one that is quite heavy. The last two feet of the heavy one come off for use as a short sword. The light one is best for travel. For weapon free zones like National Parks a trash picker is a good substitute.
A spear isn't enough though so an 18" Bowie knife on the belt makes a great walking companion.
A night watch would typically carry a club. For home and auto defense I have two military surplus Monadnock extendable batons. These have the steel sleeve and wooden extension. OAL extended length is about 20" compact about 12". They slide right open with a quick flick. With two, one can be used to parry blows. The idea here is to aim for lower legs and go for a mobility take down. A break in the tibia, fibula or patella are all fight stoppers.
If fighting is expected I'm too slow to run away. So I'll put my body armor on, it has PE panels in it so it is pretty much stab/cut/pound proof. Then I will grab my 42 inch Katana and go to work.
I have only known one person who used a melee weapon in actual military combat. He left his rifle in another part of the building at the direction of a leader when we had an incident in the barracks. So he grabbed an axe and went to work. Not my weapon of choice, but anything is better than stern language.
For whatever reason, these can't be shipped out of the U.S.A.
But what about a big honkin' wood baton? It's what this thread kicked off with.
USGI 36" Riot Baton (https://colemans.com/u-s-g-i-36-wood-riot-baton?srsltid=AfmBOoqFiKH1f8DogmrUMHFbyJoX_lKej0HDItWmcklMVuWo7S5URv1w)
While I haven't used one personally, I think this or an axe handle would check a lot of boxes...
Plus, if you wrap the handle with blue phone cord? Unstoppable. :clownshoes:
Every time I think axe handle, I think Clint Eastwood in "Pale Rider" where he beats some of the main bad guy's henchman with one.
Quote from: echo83 on October 12, 2025, 10:16:40 AMFor whatever reason, these can't be shipped out of the U.S.A.
But what about a big honkin' wood baton? It's what this thread kicked off with.
USGI 36" Riot Baton (https://colemans.com/u-s-g-i-36-wood-riot-baton?srsltid=AfmBOoqFiKH1f8DogmrUMHFbyJoX_lKej0HDItWmcklMVuWo7S5URv1w)
While I haven't used one personally, I think this or an axe handle would check a lot of boxes...
Plus, if you wrap the handle with blue phone cord? Unstoppable. :clownshoes:
LAPD beat cops used to carry a version of this. When I was in the Marine Corps I got stuck downtown at the bus station in the middle of the night. And watched two beat cops beat the shit out of a homeless guy with those. He was sleeping. Apparently where he wasn't supposed to. These guys didn't even say anything. They just started beating his shins and legs with wooden batons. It was actually pretty horrific. It shocked me. When they walked up I thought " oh there gonna nudge him with it or just tap him once in the shins to wake him". Nope. Straight beat the shit out if this guy's legs. It's was brutal. Different times. Back in the early 80s.
Quote from: Moab on October 12, 2025, 12:26:19 PMQuote from: echo83 on October 12, 2025, 10:16:40 AMFor whatever reason, these can't be shipped out of the U.S.A.
But what about a big honkin' wood baton? It's what this thread kicked off with.
USGI 36" Riot Baton (https://colemans.com/u-s-g-i-36-wood-riot-baton?srsltid=AfmBOoqFiKH1f8DogmrUMHFbyJoX_lKej0HDItWmcklMVuWo7S5URv1w)
While I haven't used one personally, I think this or an axe handle would check a lot of boxes...
Plus, if you wrap the handle with blue phone cord? Unstoppable. :clownshoes:
LAPD beat cops used to carry a version of this. When I was in the Marine Corps I got stuck downtown at the bus station in the middle of the night. And watched two beat cops beat the shit out of a homeless guy with those. He was sleeping. Apparently where he wasn't supposed to. These guys didn't even say anything. They just started beating his shins and legs with wooden batons. It was actually pretty horrific. It shocked me. When they walked up I thought " oh there gonna nudge him with it or just tap him once in the shins to wake him". Nope. Straight beat the shit out if this guy's legs. It's was brutal. Different times. Back in the early 80s.
Man, that's pretty awful. Not to get too dark, but I think there's something primeval and playing-for-keeps about a long baton, because when you're using one, it takes longer to put an opponent down.
To me, a sword or machete represents frenzied, over-in-a-flash violence. A baton represents a methodical, organized, longer-lasting violence. The kind that comes with having similarly-equipped comrades to your left and right. It's like the hand-held equivalent of fixing bayonets.
I think that's because I see rioters in poorer countries using machetes or swords as weapons of opportunity, and I usually see organized LEO-types wielding batons and shields.
I've noticed the machete thing as well in a lot of riots in places like SE Asia and Latin America.
At least in the rural areas, pretty much damn near everyone out there's got a machete for clearing brush or other landscaping uses. Probably for protection as well since guns are few and far between and heavily restricted.
I forget where it was exactly, but years ago I saw footage of a protest turned riot where the riot cops were just going medieval on the rioters and vice versa. I didn't see any machetes or other blades, just broom handles, bats, batons and what looked like boat paddles that were cut down to bat size.
I wish I could remember exactly where it was. It looked brutal as hell and kind of reminded me of the battle scenes in "Braveheart".
A lot of the border clashes between China and India are like that. Neither side wants to shoot at the other and have all out war, so they wail on each other with literal sticks, stones and slingshots. If I didn't know any better, I'd say there is either a tacit agreement or outright orders not to use firearms.
Either way, batons are capable of doing serious damage from a physical and morale standpoint.
Oh yeah.
I've got an expandable baton that NT2C sent me and I've got no doubt that it could royally mess someone's day up if they got hit with it.
I had a cheapo one I bought at a flea market years ago, but it ended up loosening to the point where it no longer locked in place. I may attempt to fix it at some point by disassembling it or maybe welding it in the open position.
I've had an expandable metal baton for years I kept in my car. But stopped because... CA. 😑 Those things will cave a head in. And are very concealable. Way more effective than a wooden baton. And at like 15-20"(?) the perfect length. Enough weight and length maximize speed and damage. And it has a hardcore diamond cut rubber handle. You literally can't lose grip. That and a can of mace and your as close to non lethal as your going to get. While still very close. Those things are scary. I would be vary careful swinging one. And probably not use it unless it was a last resort. Because going to far with it seems very easy. It was a cheap one too. They use to be very popular in the 80s. Probably until folks started realizing just how lethal they are.On another note I drove past a Phillipine machete maker yesterday. Meant to stop in the way back. But missed it. Probably several hundred machetes displayed along the side of the highway. Simple steel blade, bone handle and wood sheath. I brought one back from JEST school back in the 80s. (Jungle Environmental Survival Training) Looked like this one I saw in the super market the other day.
Sorry that's one block of text. Hit reply, wrote, and remembered I can't post images unless I make a new reply.
20251001_160225.jpg
That's a neat find, Moab.
Reminds me of a store I used to stop at in Beaumont, Texas years ago.
They had a bunch of cheapo machetes in plastic totes along the wall and they ranged in quality from ok to total crap.
Like I didn't know squat about heat treatment and blade steels back then, but even so I could tell the steel on some of them was really soft.
Quote from: Moab on October 12, 2025, 10:20:03 PMHit reply, wrote, and remembered I can't post images unless I make a new reply.
Hit the preview button while you're typing a post and then you can post an image.
If you forget to post an image after you've already hit the post button you can go back to that post and hit the QUICK EDIT button and add an image pasting the image url between these bbcode markers for image. [img"]url address[/img"] without the quote marks.
Or if you clicked post already you can click the MORE... button next to the QUICK EDIT button, then select Modify and you upload a picture to the UFoZS server or use the add image button to add the hotlink.
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A surplus military baton is considered a weapon and falls under a number of restrictions right away. I used to keep a baton by the door by my feet in Iraq when on patrol. When I tried to return home with it they wouldn't let me take it back, even though I had brought it with me, which apparently I wasn't supposed to without permission, although no one complained at the time.
Quote from: Uomo Senza Nome on October 13, 2025, 05:16:12 PMA surplus military baton is considered a weapon and falls under a number of restrictions right away. I used to keep a baton by the door by my feet in Iraq when on patrol. When I tried to return home with it they wouldn't let me take it back, even though I had brought it with me, which apparently I wasn't supposed to without permission, although no one complained at the time.
What is considered a military baton? We had what we called nightsticks on firewatch when I was in the Marine Corps. Just a wood billy club. Like a classic cop nightstick.
I don't think the long ones are viable except as long sticks to poke people and keep them away from you. Swinging anything long than a couple feet is slow.
Quote from: MacWa77ace on October 13, 2025, 09:02:12 AMQuote from: Moab on October 12, 2025, 10:20:03 PMHit reply, wrote, and remembered I can't post images unless I make a new reply.
Hit the preview button while you're typing a post and then you can post an image.
If you forget to post an image after you've already hit the post button you can go back to that post and hit the QUICK EDIT button and add an image pasting the image url between these bbcode markers for image. [img"]url address[/img"] without the quote marks.
Or if you clicked post already you can click the MORE... button next to the QUICK EDIT button, then select Modify and you upload a picture to the UFoZS server or use the add image button to add the hotlink.
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Thank you. I do that all the time.
Quote from: Moab on October 13, 2025, 08:58:54 PMQuote from: Uomo Senza Nome on October 13, 2025, 05:16:12 PMA surplus military baton is considered a weapon and falls under a number of restrictions right away. I used to keep a baton by the door by my feet in Iraq when on patrol. When I tried to return home with it they wouldn't let me take it back, even though I had brought it with me, which apparently I wasn't supposed to without permission, although no one complained at the time.
What is considered a military baton? We had what we called nightsticks on firewatch when I was in the Marine Corps. Just a wood billy club. Like a classic cop nightstick.
I don't think the long ones are viable except as long sticks to poke people and keep them away from you. Swinging anything long than a couple feet is slow.
I don't make the laws, but if it was owned by the military it is now a military baton. Some countries won't let their citizens own anything that the military uses. This includes 9mm firearms where they are otherwise legal.
Quote from: Uomo Senza Nome on October 13, 2025, 09:34:05 PMQuote from: Moab on October 13, 2025, 08:58:54 PMQuote from: Uomo Senza Nome on October 13, 2025, 05:16:12 PMA surplus military baton is considered a weapon and falls under a number of restrictions right away. I used to keep a baton by the door by my feet in Iraq when on patrol. When I tried to return home with it they wouldn't let me take it back, even though I had brought it with me, which apparently I wasn't supposed to without permission, although no one complained at the time.
What is considered a military baton? We had what we called nightsticks on firewatch when I was in the Marine Corps. Just a wood billy club. Like a classic cop nightstick.
I don't think the long ones are viable except as long sticks to poke people and keep them away from you. Swinging anything long than a couple feet is slow.
I don't make the laws, but if it was owned by the military it is now a military baton. Some countries won't let their citizens own anything that the military uses. This includes 9mm firearms where they are otherwise legal.
I'm so sorry. I don't recall what country your in?
I will spare you a diatribe on gun control. Lol! But we can see where it's gotten England. They can't even post online without getting arrested and imprisoned. Something like 3000+ people in the last year or couple years have gone to prison for things they've posted online. Their government has lost their mind.
That would never happen in the US. And I'll give you one guess as to why? (Rather than my 14 page diatribe about gun control. Lol!) But seriously. The second amendment is the only thing protecting our other rights. It's so painfully obvious when you see what other countries citizens have to go through.
Quote from: Moab on October 13, 2025, 08:58:54 PMWhat is considered a military baton? We had what we called nightsticks on firewatch when I was in the Marine Corps. Just a wood billy club. Like a classic cop nightstick.
Why did fire watch need a billy club and not a ...
... fire extinguisher? :smiley_shrug:
[/rhetorical question]
Recently Picked up this surplus PR24-AL for $35. They usually go for around $150 new so not a bad deal. Just need to pick up a holster for it.
(https://preview.redd.it/aluminum-pr-24-monadnock-24-baton-used-35-free-us-shipping-v0-ovwk2bqkwnrg1.jpeg?width=4284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=583ee30d641f5a2c230a45d49f63a6cd4bf2ae94)