Help me decide between the two.
I have worked really hard on my bov. Its a 1999 Jeep Wrangler TJ. A classic small Jeep basically. With a soft top, 4x4 of course, AT, 6 cyl. Good all terrain tires. The last of the off road suv's that do very well offroad. 150k miles. Engine is strong. Kept up with all maintenance. No rust at all. Socal vehicle.
But every once in a while if i start it cold and take off right away the transmission slips a little getting into 1st gear. Other than that i jever have any problems with it. Its about a $3500 repair for a rebuilt transmission. Its rate that it happens. Like not everytime. But if i really wanted to make it paw/emergency worthy i would need to do it. Besides being paw worthy i need to move to the pnw this summer. Not crazy about driving it from LA to WA, or MT. With the trans issue, mpg and the way it drives at freeway speeds. Its like a rollot skate and cant do more than about 65-70 on the freeway. It also gets terrible mpg. Like maybe 15 mpg.
Here it is.
https://imgur.com/uci0fQW (https://imgur.com/uci0fQW)
So ive been thinking about replacing it with a 2006-2012 Toyota Rav4 V6 with 4x4.
This is one we just found for our son.
https://imgur.com/a/uUfMytc (https://imgur.com/a/uUfMytc)
The pros for the rav4 are 30 mpg, more cargo space, good freeway speeds. You can find low mileage used japanese engines for like $600. It is or was the 3rd most produced car in America. So lots of parts and places to work on it. The Jeep is very simple and easy to work on. Parts are fairly available. And anyone can work on them. Even me. Lol.
My uses are as follows.
The Jeep is my daily driver here in LA. But i dont usually travel long distances. If i had to bug out of LA its small and has 4x4 so i could drive shoulders, weird roads etc. But 15 mpg is going to need alot of refills. I will need to drive it 1200 miles or so when we move this summer. Then once in tje pnw we will hopefully be living very rural. And will at least need 4x4 in tje snow and dirt roads.
The rav4 is also small. Has 4x4 but not a Jeep. The Jeep TJ is one of the last truly great offroad vehicles. I dont know how well tje rav4 does in snow. Perhaps good enough on normal snowy paved and dirt roads. Not alot of info about that. Its not a Subaru. But not without locking hubs either.
Lastly the Jeep i can almost do any repair in a pinch or have it repaired cheaply. The rav4 is much more modern. But they ate Toyotas so its not unreasonable to think 250k+miles if well maintained. The Jeep also. As it runs an old tractor engine that is very bulletproof. And easily exceeds 250k miles also.
I guess my biggest value in the rav4 is mpg, good freeway speeds, and more cargo room. The Jeep is better offroad and i can work on it myself.
Hard choice. What am i missing? And what are your thoughts? Another 4x4 im not considering that i should be?
(PS - I hope this update fixes all these posting issues. I lost this entire post twice. As if you come back to this page on android it deletes what youve written. Very frustrating. I also have to constantly resize the post box. And it will not lengthen eiyher.)
A quick thought regarding the transmission in the Jeep - have you ever tried something like Lucas Transmission Fix (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ARTZPO) in it? I've added that to both of my older, high-mileage vehicles and it improved the shifting in both of them. Not a forever fix, but it might help in the shorter term.
What are you missing? Safety...
A bit of bias here. I like Toyotas and Hondas.
I also like Jeeps but only for off the road applications. If you are not going off road a Jeep TJ is not a great car. If you are going off road then the Jeep CJ or TJ is what you want.
That does not sound like the case here.
I have driven a Jeep (Grand Cherokee & CJ) as well as a 2015 Toyota Rav 4 with 4wd on the highway, on dirt roads and in snow (in Wyoming). The Rav 4 was IMO a great car. The only real issue with the 4wd was that it was the more modern AWD version and the 4wd shut off over 20 mph. So if you needed 4 wd you had to stay slow. That worked for me. YMMV...literally.
The Grand Cherokee was great all around but the CJ was freaking cold, drafty and uncomfortable. The grand Cherokee could go the same places I accessed with the CJ whereas the Rav 4 could not. The biggest issue for the Rav 4 in snow and on dirt roads was ground clearance.
Safety Fast!
Since the Rav 4 is more modern, it will also have side curtain airbags and other safety systems and thus more survivable in a crash. A car crash is a highly probable event. You do need to weigh your personal survival in this equation. A Jeep soft top w/o a roll cage can kill you in a roll over. The Rav 4 structure should survive a roll over. A curtain airbag will provide more protection than Jeep's door.
You need to weigh these high probability risks into your equation.
A car with airbags and side impact airbags are safer for passengers in a crash. A Rav4 structure will be more likely to absorb the energy of an impact.
Quote from: Raptor on March 18, 2022, 04:41:45 PM
What are you missing? Safety...
A bit of bias here. I like Toyotas and Hondas.
I also like Jeeps but only for off the road applications. If you are not going off road a Jeep TJ is not a great car. If you are going off road then the Jeep CJ or TJ is what you want.
That does not sound like the case here.
I have driven a Jeep (Grand Cherokee & CJ) as well as a 2015 Toyota Rav 4 with 4wd on the highway, on dirt roads and in snow (in Wyoming). The Rav 4 was IMO a great car. The only real issue with the 4wd was that it was the more modern AWD version and the 4wd shut off over 20 mph. So if you needed 4 wd you had to stay slow. That worked for me. YMMV...literally.
The Grand Cherokee was great all around but the CJ was freaking cold, drafty and uncomfortable. The grand Cherokee could go the same places I accessed with the CJ whereas the Rav 4 could not. The biggest issue for the Rav 4 in snow and on dirt roads was ground clearance.
Safety Fast!
Since the Rav 4 is more modern, it will also have side curtain airbags and other safety systems and thus more survivable in a crash. A car crash is a highly probable event. You do need to weigh your personal survival in this equation. A Jeep soft top w/o a roll cage can kill you in a roll over. The Rav 4 structure should survive a roll over. A curtain airbag will provide more protection than Jeep's door.
You need to weigh these high probability risks into your equation.
A car with airbags and side impact airbags are safer for passengers in a crash. A Rav4 structure will be more likely to absorb the energy of an impact.
Im in total agreement. My only hesitation is needing 4x4 in wa or mt. We plan to live in the mountains somewhere. As far out as we can get. So 4x4 is going to be a must. Just not sure the rav4 is up for it.
Ive owned this Jeep for 3 years. And its great around town. And does well on the freeway too. But honestly if i had to make an evasive movement at speed it would not do well. Ive had to do it at 30 to 40 mph. And it was very difficult to handle. Not bragging but a lesser driver would have rolled it.
I guess my only alternative would be a Suburu. But im concerned about having it repaired. If we were planning on living in a big city it would probably be ok. But out in a rural area im not sure i could find affordable repair options.
I guess i could look at an older Toyota pickup with crewcab. But damn those are expensive. Any other ideas? How well do u think the rav4 would do on regular dirt roads with snow on them?
Quote from: EBuff75 on March 18, 2022, 04:02:43 PM
A quick thought regarding the transmission in the Jeep - have you ever tried something like Lucas Transmission Fix (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ARTZPO) in it? I've added that to both of my older, high-mileage vehicles and it improved the shifting in both of them. Not a forever fix, but it might help in the shorter term.
I have not. I would consider it as a last resort. But am leary about doing anything other than changing fluid. I was even strongly advised by everyone on the Jeep forum not to even get a trans flush. So adding an additivr scares me. Its at least driveable now i could sell it. Like i said it rarely happens.
The thought of driving it 1200+ miles north does not make me feel good. I dropped a trans in northerm california once. I had to drive home to san diego at the time. And bring a mechanic and new trans back. Luckily i had stopped at a garage/gas station tjat let us use there shop to change it.
My battery started crapping out. So I changed it this week. I found a good deal on a agm battery at oreillys. $170 plus a 5 percent discount.
Its been raining like hell in California. So in a brief respite I folded my hood back against the windshield. God I do love that. And changed it. Of course I dropped one of the retention clamps into the engine bay. And had to take the entire tray out. But it was nice to do something with my hands.
Starts right up. And I feel better having a mych better battery than I had.
AGM batteries are by only a couple companies that put retailers markings on them. Oreillys is one of those. So I feel confident in it. Optima batteries are not made by one of the better manufacturers and are seen as crap in the 4x4 community these days. Just fyi.
This fits a Jeep. But you should be able to find one in that brand that fits your vehicle.
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/marine-agm/marine---boat/batteries---marine---deep-cycle/deep-cycle---marine-batteries/6bf1f04ea895/super-start-marine-agm-group-size-34m-top-post-battery/ssbj/34magm
The RAV4 is the much better for every use except bugging out (or, obviously: recreational off roading). As a daily driver, the Toyota will be more comfortable, more efficient, more reliable and, as Raptor points out - safer.
Bugging out is about the only scenario where I'd rather have the Jeep. And even then, only if your escape route requires you to go someplace the Jeep can and the AWD Toyota can't. You also zero on on a few things that aren't great about the Jeep as a bug out vehicle - mpg, cargo space and (potentially) mechanical reliability. Partially outweighing those negatvies for the Jeep: I agree its simplicity makes it easier to work on.
Everyone needs to do their own personal risk assessment to determine how to prep. But my prepping philosophy has always been: be realistic about that assessment and don't let an infatuation with disasters lead you to make unwise, irrational decisions in life. God willing, you'll never need to bug out, but even if you do, 99.9% of the use of this next car is going to get will be as a daily driver. Vehicle ownership is a costly life necessity that impacts your life almost every day. Let those factors drive your decision, not the 0.01% chance that not only will you need to bug out, but it will require capabilities that the Jeep has and the Toyota lacks.
Unless of course, you can have a dedicated bug out vehicle in addition to your daily driver. In which case screw the Wrangler and go straight for the Daimler-Benz Unimog. :awesome:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/70/f7/1f/70f71ffd4218638164fdab09a016097d.jpg)
Quote from: majorhavoc on January 15, 2023, 08:10:18 AMUnless of course, you can have a dedicated bug out vehicle in addition to your daily driver. In which case screw the Wrangler and go straight for the Daimler-Benz Unimog. :awesome:
Paramount Maatla for me, please! It's the small version of the Marauder that Top Gear tried to blow up with 3kg of plastic explosives and all it had was a flat tire or something along the line.
(https://www.paramountgroup.com/media/2107/maatla-main.jpg)
Quote from: Moab on March 18, 2022, 03:38:55 PM(PS - I hope this update fixes all these posting issues. I lost this entire post twice. As if you come back to this page on android it deletes what youve written. Very frustrating. I also have to constantly resize the post box. And it will not lengthen eiyher.)
The system now has a "drafts" function that will auto-save a draft version of what you've typed every 30 seconds or so.
Quote from: tirls on January 15, 2023, 01:58:24 PMQuote from: majorhavoc on January 15, 2023, 08:10:18 AMUnless of course, you can have a dedicated bug out vehicle in addition to your daily driver. In which case screw the Wrangler and go straight for the Daimler-Benz Unimog. :awesome:
Paramount Maatla for me, please! It's the small version of the Marauder that Top Gear tried to blow up with 3kg of plastic explosives and all it had was a flat tire or something along the line.
(https://www.paramountgroup.com/media/2107/maatla-main.jpg)
It was a flat tire and part of the rear bumper bent up a little.
And I know what I'm buying if I ever win a really big lottery prize. :smiley_clap:
Quote from: NT2C on January 15, 2023, 02:03:07 PMQuote from: Moab on March 18, 2022, 03:38:55 PM(PS - I hope this update fixes all these posting issues. I lost this entire post twice. As if you come back to this page on android it deletes what youve written. Very frustrating. I also have to constantly resize the post box. And it will not lengthen eiyher.)
The system now has a "drafts" function that will auto-save a draft version of what you've typed every 30 seconds or so.
I've learned my lesson it can just as easily be lost posting anywhere else on the net. If its a long post I start it in my note taking app. Lol. Lesson learned. Thank you. :)
Quote from: majorhavoc on January 15, 2023, 08:10:18 AMThe RAV4 is the much better for every use except bugging out (or, obviously: recreational off roading). As a daily driver, the Toyota will be more comfortable, more efficient, more reliable and, as Raptor points out - safer.
Bugging out is about the only scenario where I'd rather have the Jeep. And even then, only if your escape route requires you to go someplace the Jeep can and the AWD Toyota can't. You also zero on on a few things that aren't great about the Jeep as a bug out vehicle - mpg, cargo space and (potentially) mechanical reliability. Partially outweighing those negatvies for the Jeep: I agree its simplicity makes it easier to work on.
Everyone needs to do their own personal risk assessment to determine how to prep. But my prepping philosophy has always been: be realistic about that assessment and don't let an infatuation with disasters lead you to make unwise, irrational decisions in life. God willing, you'll never need to bug out, but even if you do, 99.9% of the use of this next car is going to get will be as a daily driver. Vehicle ownership is a costly life necessity that impacts your life almost every day. Let those factors drive your decision, not the 0.01% chance that not only will you need to bug out, but it will require capabilities that the Jeep has and the Toyota lacks.
Unless of course, you can have a dedicated bug out vehicle in addition to your daily driver. In which case screw the Wrangler and go straight for the Daimler-Benz Unimog. :awesome:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/70/f7/1f/70f71ffd4218638164fdab09a016097d.jpg)
The one thing I will miss about the Jeep is its reliability, ease of finding parts and the ease of repair. If I lived in the country I could have repaired every single thing I've ever had done on it. And still I've done the vast majority. I just don't like attempting certain things in my highly slanted, public view, driveway in the city.
Which is the only thing I don't like about super tricked out bov's. Where are you gonna find parts? And how are you gonna fix it?
This is where the Jeep Wrangler specifically shines. And its true of every piece of bug out equipment. You have to choose things that you can easily find parts for and easily fix. Glock. Coleman Stove. .30-06 or .308 bolt action rifle. Etc etc.
I have been driving my sons RAV4. And the gas mileage is almost unbelievable. The light goes on and it surprises you. $40 give you almost 2/3rds of a tank. Which takes forever to use. But switching back to my Jeep I feel so much safer. And I know I can go anywhere or further than just about any other vehicle can take me.
AWD though is the missing link. This RAV4 doesn't have it. But I have never tested an AWD in the snow or offroad. Some rave about it. But others don't.