Five people were killed and two wounded in a bow and arrow attack in Norway (https://www.npr.org/2021/10/13/1045739010/several-people-were-killed-or-injured-in-a-bow-and-arrow-attack-in-norway)
Latest confirmed info is that the guy is a Danish citizen living in Kongsberg and has a criminal record. He is a radicalized Islam convert and was acting alone, but the police are still unsure whether it was terrorism or something else. All the killings happened after a confrontation with police where he shot at the police with a bow and then got away. Lot's of rumors and speculation going on now, so we'll have to be patient and wait fore the police to give more information.
It's a tragic case no matter what it turns out to be. I've been to Kongsberg several times and know people from there, it's really not a place you expect something like this to happen.
He was confronted by police at a store and successfully "broke contact" with the police by shoting at them with the bow (not hitting anyone) and running away, after which he killed several people..(some sources say most if not all fatalities was after that confrontation) :gonk:
My guess is that the reason he managed to break contact and go on killing is that the Norwegian police are not normally armed... :headbang:
Quote from: Johan on October 14, 2021, 11:06:26 AM
He was confronted by police at a store and successfully "broke contact" with the police by shoting at them with the bow (not hitting anyone) and running away, after which he killed several people..(some sources say most if not all fatalities was after that confrontation) :gonk:
My guess is that the reason he managed to break contact and go on killing is that the Norwegian police are not normally armed... :headbang:
I wonder if that'll change now or if the Norwegian cops will continue not normally carrying guns.
Police in Norway does not carry guns on them, but they have guns available in their car and will carry them if responding to a situation where there are weapons involved. They are also sometimes armed for periods of time if there are increased threat levels or other reasons to, as they currently are after this, and probably will be for a few days. It's a system that generally has worked well for us and I highly doubt it will change after this, especially since it does not seem to have made any difference...
In this case the order was given to go armed, and the patrol that responded first were armed when they arrived at the scene. Seems that they could not get a clean shot while being shot at so they opted to try to contain the situation in the store while waiting for backup and protective gear. It is unclear how the shooter got out of the store, but he did not go past the police trying to contain him. (Source in Norwegian: https://www.nrk.no/norge/politiet-til-nrk_-drapsmannen-stakk-av-da-forste-patrulje-ventet-pa-verneutstyr-1.15690751 (https://www.nrk.no/norge/politiet-til-nrk_-drapsmannen-stakk-av-da-forste-patrulje-ventet-pa-verneutstyr-1.15690751))
Kongsberg: Bow and arrow attack appears to be terrorism - officialshttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58910794
QuoteA deadly bow and arrow attack in Norway which left five people dead appears to have been an act of terror, Norway's security service (PST) said. The suspect, a 37-year-old Danish citizen named Espen Andersen Brathen, had converted to Islam and there were fears he had been radicalised. However a motive has not yet been determined.
He is accused of killing four women and a man on Wednesday night in the southern town of Kongsberg.
In a press release on Thursday (in Norwegian), police said Brathen was due to appear in court on Friday at 09:00 local time (07:00 GMT). A police lawyer told public broadcaster NRK he would be assessed by psychiatrists. During a press conference PST head Hans Sverre Sjovold said the suspect had been "in and out of the health system for some time".
Residents have been deeply shaken by the violence. Flags were flown at half-mast on Thursday while flowers and other memorials were placed in Kongsberg's main square. The victims were all aged between 50 and 70, regional police chief Ole Bredrup Saeverud told reporters at a Thursday morning news briefing.
Quote from: sheddi on October 14, 2021, 03:50:10 PM
Kongsberg: Bow and arrow attack appears to be terrorism - officials
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58910794
QuoteA deadly bow and arrow attack in Norway which left five people dead appears to have been an act of terror, Norway's security service (PST) said. The suspect, a 37-year-old Danish citizen named Espen Andersen Brathen, had converted to Islam and there were fears he had been radicalised. However a motive has not yet been determined.
He is accused of killing four women and a man on Wednesday night in the southern town of Kongsberg.
In a press release on Thursday (in Norwegian), police said Brathen was due to appear in court on Friday at 09:00 local time (07:00 GMT). A police lawyer told public broadcaster NRK he would be assessed by psychiatrists. During a press conference PST head Hans Sverre Sjovold said the suspect had been "in and out of the health system for some time".
Residents have been deeply shaken by the violence. Flags were flown at half-mast on Thursday while flowers and other memorials were placed in Kongsberg's main square. The victims were all aged between 50 and 70, regional police chief Ole Bredrup Saeverud told reporters at a Thursday morning news briefing.
As a clarification, the healthcare he has been "in and out of" is psychiatric in nature..
Also he has made death threats to his parents, who has had a "restraining order" put on him..
Also the "Security Police" (I think roughly equivalent to FBI) are starting to get some pointed questions what they did about the warnings they received about the guy after he posted a threatening video about his conversion back in 2017..
Cops that don't or don't normally carry guns...I just can't wrap my head around that.... :eek1:
I wonder how seriously the police took the threat of a bow and if a failure to appreciate how dangerous it can be contributed to how far this incident went. I know the idea of not taking a bow serious may be ridiculous to some here, but in the US we needed significant training in the 80s to get police to take knives seriously. Even last year I was in a room with multiple veteran police officers being trained in how dangerous knives are, and afterwards every single one expressed surprise and amazement that knives could be so dangerous. :headbang:
I also wonder how many "lone terrorist operatives" are actually people struggling with mental health issues and desperately clinging to anything that helps them make sense of the world. I don't want to dismiss real evil and/or true believers of radical violent ideologies. Both evil and true radicals are real. Mental health issues can also lead someone to radical ideals and/or violent acts. My concern on the issue is you treat the underlying problem very differently despite similar behaviors amd damage being done.
Quote from: RoneKiln on October 15, 2021, 01:33:34 AM
I know the idea of not taking a bow serious may be ridiculous to some here, but in the US we needed significant training in the 80s to get police to take knives seriously. Even last year I was in a room with multiple veteran police officers being trained in how dangerous knives are, and afterwards every single one expressed surprise and amazement that knives could be so dangerous. :headbang:
And today's news out of the UK is a reminder that knives can be deadly: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58930593
Quote from: RoneKiln on October 15, 2021, 01:33:34 AM
I also wonder how many "lone terrorist operatives" are actually people struggling with mental health issues and desperately clinging to anything that helps them make sense of the world. I don't want to dismiss real evil and/or true believers of radical violent ideologies. Both evil and true radicals are real. Mental health issues can also lead someone to radical ideals and/or violent acts. My concern on the issue is you treat the underlying problem very differently despite similar behaviors amd damage being done.
Mental illness is a real threat to everyone. The mentally ill used to be housed and supervised obviously that lead to abuses and was never ideal. That said permitting untreated mentally ill people to roam at will in public is not a great solution either. In an ideal world neither would happen.
Welcome to Planet Earth which is not an ideal world
That said true evil does exist and will affect people who in turn commit horrendous acts.
As for arrows being weapons all you have to do is look at a hunting broadhead tip to get an idea of their lethality. This is typical of the ones I have seen an x shaped wound 2 inches across...I would almost prefer an bullet. I say almost because if given a choice I would choose "none please".
expandable broadheads go to 3+"
https://www.lancasterarchery.com/exoskeletal-meg-broadhead-85-grain.html
(https://www.creedarchery.com/pub/media/catalog/product/cache/9793e3cb2e3429cff6c2eb752d5a8af6/2/5/25-60077_small.jpg)(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fb3archery.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2019%2F01%2FEXO2-web-2-300x300.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
The names on these things even hurt.
30-06 blood bath
Grim reaper razortip
Blood therapy type O
bloodsport grave digger
bloodsport night fury extreme
dead ringer freak nasty
dirt nap gear shread
grim reaper fatal steel