This likely to have a lot of fatalities. Miami Dade County has building standards that many other hurricane prone areas use as their standards. The age of the building has not been released but as we all known 12 story buildings (not under construction) rarely collapse in the US much less in Miami.
https://apnews.com/article/miami-building-collapses-25ee9ff94dd07d2a0ae3da742a6cb8dd
(https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/c2d38006e7b245b899c18ab063d685ed/800.jpeg)
Some units at 8777 Collins at the condo listed as sold on realtor.com
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/8777-Collins-Ave-Apt-610_Surfside_FL_33154_M56058-49217
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/8777-Collins-Ave-Apt-1110_Surfside_FL_33154_M66545-00977
These say the building was built in 1981 and go for $400 per sq ft (kinda on the low end for that area which can go for $3,000+ psf) likely based upon its age.
The strict building standards in area went into effect in 2002 so this was built 21 years before these became effective.
I'm hearing 16 stories and circa 1981. Yet more evidence to take "facts" reported immediately following a disaster with a 5 lb bag of rock salt. Initial reports say 1 death and 10 injured. I do not expect those figures to be static.
Quote from: Raptor on June 24, 2021, 09:35:35 AM
The age of the building has not been released but as we all known 12 story buildings (not under construction) rarely collapse in the US much less in Miami.
12 stories, reported that it was built in 1981. When I saw that this morning I was, "this isn't India?!?"
My guess is those pillars used rebar and concrete and in that beach environment the rebar rusted, expanded and weakened the pillars. I'm waiting for the reports saying that management was notified of strange noises and cracks in the weeks leading ....
I said that if I lived in one of the units on the mirror side, I'd GTFO.
Quote from: majorhavoc on June 24, 2021, 09:43:28 AM
I'm hearing 16 stories and circa 1981. Yet more evidence to take "facts" reported immediately following a disaster with a 5 lb bag of rock salt. Initial reports say 1 death and 10 injured. I do not expect those figures to be static.
you are 100% correct I saw the size listed as high as 28 so any data reported quickly should be suspect. The realtor.com listing says the build date is 1981 and using the picture, I count 12 stories,
Holy fuck... but I have to admit that I'm not completely surprised. I read John D. MacDonald's book Condominium (https://www.amazon.com/Condominium-Novel-John-D-MacDonald-ebook/dp/B00E2RXHUW) when it came out in '77 and from my own experience in the construction industry in NYC knew that he'd really done his homework and spent hours talking with actual tradespeople and workers in the industry and in Florida, enough so that the book scared the hell out of me. Ever since then I've kind of expected something like this in Florida, though I thought it more likely to happen in a storm.
Quote from: NT2C on June 24, 2021, 10:28:45 AM
Ever since then I've kind of expected something like this in Florida, though I thought it more likely to happen in a storm.
A storm's impact would make sense, but yes there needs to be a lot tough questions asked of the COA association and the managers they hired.
I sure hope the COA board members have D&O insurance because they may face liability for the this matter. Also the roofing company doing some work is likely to be dragged into this also. I cannot imagine roof work causing this but who knows.
Quote from: NT2C on June 24, 2021, 10:28:45 AM
Holy fuck... but I have to admit that I'm not completely surprised. I read John D. MacDonald's book Condominium (https://www.amazon.com/Condominium-Novel-John-D-MacDonald-ebook/dp/B00E2RXHUW) when it came out in '77 and from my own experience in the construction industry in NYC knew that he'd really done his homework and spent hours talking with actual tradespeople and workers in the industry and in Florida, enough so that the book scared the hell out of me. Ever since then I've kind of expected something like this in Florida, though I thought it more likely to happen in a storm.
It's been raining all week here. And we hadn't had much rain at all this spring. Fact from MAC.
I also just heard that the building us undergoing recertification and there was construction next to that building on another building. 'Facts' from news.
The collapsed portion was way bigger than i thought. Over 1/3 the building which used to be an L shape but is now a rectangle. 99 unaccounted for.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=8877+collins+ave+miami+fl&ia=web&iaxm=maps&strict_bbox=0&bbox=41.845942747645125%2C-87.86670455470284%2C41.805305240878084%2C-87.77823962752612
Building determined to be unstable a year ago. Researchers reported that it had been sinking since the 90's. Web news 'who can be first, facts'.
Quote from: MacWa77ace on June 24, 2021, 03:15:43 PM
Building determined to be unstable a year ago. Researchers reported that it had been sinking since the 90's. Web news 'who can be first, facts'.
Hard to believe it still had a C of O if that's true.
Quote from: MacWa77ace on June 24, 2021, 03:15:43 PM
Building determined to be unstable a year ago. Researchers reported that it had been sinking since the 90's. Web news 'who can be first, facts'.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9722547/Collapsed-Miami-beach-condo-tower-hadnt-certified-1981-built.html
Note this claim was made by a geologist and not a PE or Licensed Engineer. That said he was obviously correct in his opinion credentials not withstanding.
QuoteShimon Wdowinski, a professor in the Department of Earth and Environment at Florida International University, did a study on the building and found it to be unstable.
He said on Thursday that he knew instantly which building had collapsed when he heard news reports of it.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article252325063.html
Quote
County inspectors were reviewing the 40-year-old building, Ciraldo said. According to the Miami-Dade County building code, all residential buildings are required to undergo a re-certification process when they hit 40 years. The process includes inspections to ensure the building is habitable and safe.
The association recently hired an engineer to develop specifications for electrical and structural changes needed to obtain the re-certification, a requirement of Miami-Dade County, but had not yet started construction.
"They were well into the review with the engineer about the project," said Kenneth Direktor, an attorney with the law firm Becker who has represented the association for the last five years.
Condo association meetings were well attended, Direktor said, even throughout the COVID-19 pandemic over Zoom. Direktor described the community as "active and engaged."
I suspect that it would make sense every building in that area get a copy of Wdowski's study and get their building engineer to check their buildings.
One other interesting point. This may be an excluded loss under the insurance policy. It is too early to tell but if this was caused by "neglect" it may be completely excluded.
A link to the CCTV video clip of the building collapse. :eek1:
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/article252328493.html
It went fast but in 2 phases. There is no way anyone got out once the collapse started.
Gotta hope those were mostly rental/investment properties otherwise the death toll is going to skyrocket.
Quote from: MacWa77ace on June 24, 2021, 02:20:20 PM
The collapsed portion was way bigger than i thought. Over 1/3 the building which used to be an L shape but is now a rectangle. 99 unaccounted for.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=8877+collins+ave+miami+fl&ia=web&iaxm=maps&strict_bbox=0&bbox=41.845942747645125%2C-87.86670455470284%2C41.805305240878084%2C-87.77823962752612
Yeah, when I saw this video earlier today I thought the exact same thing. For some reason, the aerial views of the aftermath didn't seem to convey the actual footprint of the building.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR29pLccutY
This was so crazy. Sinkhole maybe?
I predict the.term "concrete spalling" is going to enter the popular vernacular in the coming days/weeks.
Quote from: majorhavoc on June 25, 2021, 10:13:33 AM
I predict the.term "concrete spalling" is going to enter the popular vernacular in the coming days/weeks.
I would say that is a good bet since the building is(was) on the ocean and the salt air will attack any exposed rebar.
However in a catastrophic failure like this it is rare for one item to be sole culprit. There is generally a cascade of failures behind the event.
That said my bet is that subsidence also will pay a part. If the subsidence was not evenly distributed it is possible that excess load was placed on a load bearing area that was compromised.
The part that boggles my mind is the speed of the collapse. The first section in the video crumpled in less than 5 seconds and the whole failed structure had collapsed in 15+/- seconds. I wonder what triggered it?
That and generally but not always there would have been at least some external signs like weeping, spalling and cracking. However, in structures like that external cosmetics are important and the management may simply have painted and patched them assuming it was cosmetic.
Not from the building in question:
Source of picture (https://cp-tech.co.uk/identifying-and-treating-corrosion-in-reinforced-concrete-structures/)
(https://cp-tech.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/spalling-concrete.jpg)
Looks like the number of unaccounted for persons has been raised to 159.
Quote from: RickOShea on June 25, 2021, 12:07:23 PM
Looks like the number of unaccounted for persons has been raised to 159.
59 units were destroyed and this was mainly a full time residential property. The Israeli ambassador said 20 citizens were missing.
159 missing is not unreasonable assuming they are 2 br units it may be low.
Quote from: Raptor on June 25, 2021, 01:07:17 PM
Quote from: RickOShea on June 25, 2021, 12:07:23 PM
Looks like the number of unaccounted for persons has been raised to 159.
59 units were destroyed and this was mainly a full time residential property. The Israeli ambassador said 20 citizens were missing.
159 missing is not unreasonable assuming they are 2 br units it may be low.
That's what we've been talking about here. I heard report of 30 Israeli nationals and 20 South Am's. Even saw and interview of someone from S. AMerica who was on vacation, and couldn't get back in the building to get their luggage/stuff. Assumed all 50 were vacationers, renting out the units. And so it's possible that some units were either empty, with seasonal owners coming in during winter season only. Or empty 'cause weren't rented out during the off season.
We were just hoping a lot were empty, but 159. :'(
Based upon the structural reports in the hands of the Condo Association management assuming they survived the collapse they will need to contact their D&O insurers. They will face personal liability for this disaster for not acting with greater haste.
This is also going to be interesting in that based upon what I see this may not be insurable loss for anyone except the claims for people condo contents insurance. This may be a total uninsurable loss for all of the owners.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/06/26/miami-condo-collapse-inspection-reports-concrete-deterioration-surfside/5355975001/
As a benefit building inspections are booming. A CE friend of mine licensed in LA, MS & FL has been inundated with requests to inspect buildings in FL. He has enough work to keep him busy for the the next 2 years, if he accepted all requests.
Good for his business, but better for the people who own and live in these buildings.
New video out shows water falling and rubble in underground garage 7 minutes before collapse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCjuJSbeb6I
And there goes the rest of the building....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3psHAtUghE
I was wrong about this not being an insurable event. Apparently it is and one insurer has already tendered it full policy limit to the condo association. Unfortunately the total insured value is $48 million and is unlikely to cover 100% of all claims.
https://therealdeal.com/miami/2021/07/02/judge-oks-insurance-disbursements-to-victims-of-fatal-surfside-condo-collapse/
QuoteThe coverage "would obviously be inadequate to compensate everyone fully to the extent of their horror," Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Michael Hanzman said during a hearing on Thursday. "And that is unfortunate."
This is going to a real mess for all involved. The condo association was put under the control of a receiver.
QuoteHanzman appointed attorney Michael Goldberg as the receiver during a hearing Friday morning. The judge allowed Goldberg, an Akerman partner, to meet with families and make the disbursements to the survivors and families at his "discretion."
Meanwhile if you want to insure a South FL condo you can expect a lot more scrutiny and IF you can get coverage it will cost a lot more.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252528138.html
Quote from: Raptor on July 04, 2021, 11:18:53 PM*and IF you can get coverage it will cost a lot more*
Yup :eek1:
I feel for the remaining condo owners...and not just in FL.
What hell for all :'(