I'm 6'3" and looking for about a 3lb ace head with a 32"+ curved handle.
I can either buy this axe for $85 shipped:
Council Tool SU35J36C 3.5 lb. Jersey Axe Sport Utility Finish - 36" Curved Handle https://a.co/d/eE89bRY
Or this axe. Which is a TruTempur FlintEdge. 3# and 32" handle. $75 shipped.
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I know Council tools was a good tool ( not Gransformer Burks but good), True Temper was an ok brand. If I was buying it would go with the Council tools axe.
I've heard of Council Tool as well as Tru Temper, but I'd probably go with the Council Tool axe as well.
For one, it's brand new and likely comes with a warranty.
Felling axes?
? Heard good things about this brand also. It also isn't as good as a Gransfor
https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Nealley-3-5-lbs-Single/dp/B000LG85E6
I know another option is to get a vintage head and re handle and clean up the head. There's a lot of no longer made American axes very good axe heads
Either of those will get done what you likely need to get done. I think the curve on the True Temper is a little extreme, and that head has had some whacks and heavy grinding done. But older True Temper blades should be good steel and on par with the Council Tool you posted.
If you wanted to make a project of it, you can find a good 3/3.5# head one Ebay and a new hickory handle from a reputable vendor for the same price. Then you get to haft it and wield it. But that presumes you want a project...
(I may or may not have five or more very similar heads + handles in various stages of maintenance due to the above attraction to projects.)
Quote from: flybynight on March 25, 2023, 06:58:58 PMFelling axes?
? Heard good things about this brand also. It also isn't as good as a Gransfor
https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Nealley-3-5-lbs-Single/dp/B000LG85E6
I know another option is to get a vintage head and re handle and clean up the head. There's a lot of no longer made American axes very good axe heads
The snow healey was another of my choices. I started wanting a boys axe. But decided I needed something longer. I think I'll get the council and then later get a Cold Steel trail Boss just as a hiking or hunting axe.
Quote from: Beowolf on March 25, 2023, 08:12:54 PMEither of those will get done what you likely need to get done. I think the curve on the True Temper is a little extreme, and that head has had some whacks and heavy grinding done. But older True Temper blades should be good steel and on par with the Council Tool you posted.
If you wanted to make a project of it, you can find a good 3/3.5# head one Ebay and a new hickory handle from a reputable vendor for the same price. Then you get to haft it and wield it. But that presumes you want a project...
(I may or may not have five or more very similar heads + handles in various stages of maintenance due to the above attraction to projects.)
Yes. I thought of that. But I need another project like I need another hole in my head. It's really for vehicular bug out or future use. The only wood I split at home has been for our fire pit.
Plus the Council made in US steel seemed as good as any of the axe heads I saw on ebay. But they were alot more expensive. And I didn't want to turn this into a "research every axe head ever made" project. Because thats what it would have turned into.
It sounds like what you need is a boys axe. . Or even a bush axe or bigger hatchet. Several yrs back I bought a boys axe from Tractor supply. Just for the reasons you stated. It's a Truper 28 inch ,2.5# head. And it's done everything I've ever asked of it. I don't think Tractor supply sell them anymore ( I got mine for 14 bucks pre covid)
https://www.amazon.com/TRUPER-HB-2-1-4M-Hickory-Handle/dp/B00UY1QH52/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=boys+ax&qid=1679831875&sr=8-8
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/W/IMAGERENDERING_521856-T2/images/I/61YVhRdenNL._AC_SL1500_.jpg)
Quote from: flybynight on March 26, 2023, 07:21:30 AMIt sounds like what you need is a boys axe. . Or even a bush axe or bigger hatchet. Several yrs back I bought a boys axe from Tractor supply. Just for the reasons you stated. It's a Truper 28 inch ,2.5# head. And it's done everything I've ever asked of it. I don't think Tractor supply sell them anymore ( I got mine for 14 bucks pre covid)
https://www.amazon.com/TRUPER-HB-2-1-4M-Hickory-Handle/dp/B00UY1QH52/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=boys+ax&qid=1679831875&sr=8-8
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/W/IMAGERENDERING_521856-T2/images/I/61YVhRdenNL._AC_SL1500_.jpg)
That looks nice. But I'm 6'3". Really looking for a 32"+ handle. The Council Jersey axe seems to fit the bill at 3.5# and 36". A bit heavier. But with the handle size, and my size, I think it will work well. For both felling and chopping. I wish the handle were a bit more curved. But I can live with it.
Its a little more than I wanted to spend. But for US steel I think its worth it. Even just looking at the pics you can tell the steel is much better than the others. Which are all made in either China or Mexico. And few if any describe the actual steel it is made of.
All the Council brand axes spell out specifically what steel they are made of. For $85 I wish I could pick it out in person. For grain and how the heads set. But you can't have it all.
I think all the Councils come without lacquer too. Its called their "sport utility" finish. Alot of reviews on just about every axe complain of handle breakage. But its usually right out of the box. Meaning they took no time to properly treat the handle. It needs to be stripped of all lacquer and soaked with BLO. All these axes sit in storage for who knows how long. Drying out and getting brittle. And few of these guys sound like they've even ever used an axe much. It always breaks on a miss when the handle hits the tree or wood they are trying to split. Amd describing how it broke "right out of the box" tells me they did nothing to treat the handle.
One recipe for treating handles calls for stripping it and soaking it with BLO once a week for the first month. And once a month for the first year. It takes a longtime for boiled linseed oil to soak into wood. I've used it on rifle stocks. And I would think that recipe for an axe handle would much improve its flexability and ability to not crack.
I think later I'll buy the Cold Steel Trail Boss for hiking and hunting. Its a boys axe and much lighter. And gets decent reviews for such a cheap axe.
Quote from: Moab on March 26, 2023, 09:40:01 AMQuote from: flybynight on March 26, 2023, 07:21:30 AMIt sounds like what you need is a boys axe. . Or even a bush axe or bigger hatchet. Several yrs back I bought a boys axe from Tractor supply. Just for the reasons you stated. It's a Truper 28 inch ,2.5# head. And it's done everything I've ever asked of it. I don't think Tractor supply sell them anymore ( I got mine for 14 bucks pre covid)
https://www.amazon.com/TRUPER-HB-2-1-4M-Hickory-Handle/dp/B00UY1QH52/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=boys+ax&qid=1679831875&sr=8-8
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/W/IMAGERENDERING_521856-T2/images/I/61YVhRdenNL._AC_SL1500_.jpg)
That looks nice. But I'm 6'3". Really looking for a 32"+ handle. The Council Jersey axe seems to fit the bill at 3.5# and 36". A bit heavier. But with the handle size, and my size, I think it will work well. For both felling and chopping. I wish the handle were a bit more curved. But I can live with it.
Its a little more than I wanted to spend. But for US steel I think its worth it. Even just looking at the pics you can tell the steel is much better than the others. Which are all made in either China or Mexico. And few if any describe the actual steel it is made of.
All the Council brand axes spell out specifically what steel they are made of. For $85 I wish I could pick it out in person. For grain and how the heads set. But you can't have it all.
I think all the Councils come without lacquer too. Its called their "sport utility" finish. Alot of reviews on just about every axe complain of handle breakage. But its usually right out of the box. Meaning they took no time to properly treat the handle. It needs to be stripped of all lacquer and soaked with BLO. All these axes sit in storage for who knows how long. Drying out and getting brittle. And few of these guys sound like they've even ever used an axe much. It always breaks on a miss when the handle hits the tree or wood they are trying to split. Amd describing how it broke "right out of the box" tells me they did nothing to treat the handle.
One recipe for treating handles calls for stripping it and soaking it with BLO once a week for the first month. And once a month for the first year. It takes a longtime for boiled linseed oil to soak into wood. I've used it on rifle stocks. And I would think that recipe for an axe handle would much improve its flexability and ability to not crack.
I think later I'll buy the Cold Steel Trail Boss for hiking and hunting. Its a boys axe and much lighter. And gets decent reviews for such a cheap axe.
Yea that's the point of a boys axe or bush axe . You could fell a tree in a pinch . But it's more suited for hiking, hunting or bushcraft type use . Or to clear a fallen tree from the road while being a bit more compact in truck when not in use. I became enamored of this type of axe watching Joe Robinet videos. He has his Grandmothers axe, which is a old boys axe. Amazing what he was able to do with it. Had to have one. He also has a old Plumb boys axe that one of his subscribers restored and gifted him that is a work of art
I'm curious, why not look at some double bits on Craigslist, offerup, FB marketplace? I've found dozens of 3-5lb great quality double bits. Even found some older copping axes. Most of the time you're gonna need to rehandle the axe anyways.
I just love me some old double bits. And my favorite chopper was actually and old timers logging axe. He was the grandfather to a coworker. When he died she gave me all
His old axes, cross cut saws, sledgehammer, and splitting wedges. The chopper is an absolute beast.
Quote from: Halfapint on March 27, 2023, 12:20:19 AMI'm curious, why not look at some double bits on Craigslist, offerup, FB marketplace? I've found dozens of 3-5lb great quality double bits. Even found some older copping axes. Most of the time you're gonna need to rehandle the axe anyways.
I just love me some old double bits. And my favorite chopper was actually and old timers logging axe. He was the grandfather to a coworker. When he died she gave me all
His old axes, cross cut saws, sledgehammer, and splitting wedges. The chopper is an absolute beast.
I plan too. But I suspect local offerings here in LA are going to be very different from ones in the PNW. Lol.
My father had a large collection of tools. Including a number of axes and hatchets of all types and sizes. Sadly, after his death, my sister made an end run and took everything. His will was very limited. Long story.
I prefer to think of the wealth he left behind as knowledge and wisdom. Of which I am a great benefactor. He was an Indian and a great woodsman, hunter, trapper and fisherman. He passed so much more onto me than some tools. But it does break my heart that that happened. Family is never the same after a big death like that. I wish someone had prepared me for that.
Double bits are extremely dangerous unless you know what you're doing. And I don't mean felled a tree once or twice.
I've got a Hultafors hatchet. It's absolutely lovely, but apart from it's looks and maybe edge finishing when you get it not any better than the standard axes you get in the shops here.
I usually stick with the brands that the farmers and wood workers here use and then go by what feels right in the hand. Here those brands are Ochsenkopf and Müller. Finnish vintage axes are nice, they have a collared style but need a straighter handle that can be hard to get.
Quote from: tirls on March 27, 2023, 12:56:51 PMDouble bits are extremely dangerous unless you know what you're doing. And I don't mean felled a tree once or twice.
I've got a Hultafors hatchet. It's absolutely lovely, but apart from it's looks and maybe edge finishing when you get it not any better than the standard axes you get in the shops here.
I usually stick with the brands that the farmers and wood workers here use and then go by what feels right in the hand. Here those brands are Ochsenkopf and Müller. Finnish vintage axes are nice, they have a collared style but need a straighter handle that can be hard to get.
Thise are really nice looking axes! You never hear about those discussed.
https://wisementrading.com/wood-working/muller/biber-classic-s-line-axes-mueller/
https://www.shforestrysupplies.com/919-1879812-ochsenkopf-ox-620-h-1257-universal-forestry-axe-27-1-2-handle-with-rotband-plus.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw_YShBhAiEiwAMomsECvkAawopM57OhpaKRMCIRdJ8uqQDLU6rYjKvACmsdTAdLRg3iT5lBoCdiYQAvD_BwE
I'm so sick of hearing amazon axe reviews from guys with handle breakage on the first thing they try to cut. You know they did nothing to treat the wood. And thus probably have no idea how to even swing an axe.
I really like the style of those axes. Thank you for posting that.
This looks really nice.
Muller Beaver Blue Felling, Forest Axe Medium 3lbs (1400g) 0003,14 Made in Austria https://a.co/d/6aaLgwh
Quote from: Moab on March 27, 2023, 01:16:47 PMThis looks really nice.
Muller Beaver Blue Felling, Forest Axe Medium 3lbs (1400g) 0003,14 Made in Austria https://a.co/d/6aaLgwh
That might be the one I have, although the lighter version. I've took down a handful of trees with it so far and can't say anything negative about it. I've got an Ochsenkopf splitting axe that has performed nicely as well.
You could also look into popular brands in your area.
The typical youtube brands are nice, but you're paying more for its name and looks without any effect on functionality in my opinion. Unless you're looking for a special axe (Hultafors for example has some really nicely shaped carpenter style axes) I just don't think it's worth it.
This may be my new favorite. But I can't find what steel its made of. Their website is very minimal on info.
https://www.zoro.com/ochsenkopf-european-axe-35-lb-ox-209-e-1602/i/G1627418/?origin=saytrecent
Looks oretty nice for $99 and free shipping. I'm assuming the 1602 is an older model of the 1608. And maybe why its in sale.
https://www.ochsenkopf.com/-/media/files/catalogues/ochsenkopf-catalogue-2022-en.pdf (https://www.ochsenkopf.com/-/media/files/catalogues/ochsenkopf-catalogue-2022-en.pdf)
According to their catalog they use c60 steel. I can't find anything on 1602 vs. 1608, but the 1602 is still up on their homepage.
Quote from: tirls on March 27, 2023, 02:03:34 PMhttps://www.ochsenkopf.com/-/media/files/catalogues/ochsenkopf-catalogue-2022-en.pdf (https://www.ochsenkopf.com/-/media/files/catalogues/ochsenkopf-catalogue-2022-en.pdf)
According to their catalog they use c60 steel. I can't find anything on 1602 vs. 1608, but the 1602 is still up on their homepage.
Ya. I just saw that. C60 is what Stihl uses on their professional level axes. Costing more than this ochsenkopf.
So now its down to these two.
https://www.zoro.com/ochsenkopf-european-axe-35-lb-ox-209-e-1602/i/G1627418/?origin=saytrecent
Council Tool SU35J36C 3.5 lb. Jersey Axe Sport Utility Finish - 36" Curved Handle https://a.co/d/9FbWCqe
C60 appears to be the same as 1060. So both are made of the same steel. I guess it comes down to head style and the handle. I like the more curve of the Ochsenkopf. It also looks like it would be better for felling. And the Council better for splitting. But thats just based on width. I've only ever used a michigan(?) style axe like the Council. So these are uneducated guesses. The gransfor bruks is the eu style tho. Amd seems to get high ratings in every category.
Anyone have opinions on these two axes?
I'm still using a cheap Ludell 3.5lb axe that I bought years ago when I was a new homeowner. It needs to be sharpened regularly (and is due again), but it's worked pretty well for the relatively limited use that it gets. I keep lusting after various "heirloom quality" axes, but I haven't been able to convince myself that they're really worth getting, given that I live in suburbia! :D
Here's my old cheapie:
Ludell_3.5lb_axe.jpg
Quote from: Moab on March 27, 2023, 02:59:47 PMSo now its down to these two.
https://www.zoro.com/ochsenkopf-european-axe-35-lb-ox-209-e-1602/i/G1627418/?origin=saytrecent
Council Tool SU35J36C 3.5 lb. Jersey Axe Sport Utility Finish - 36" Curved Handle https://a.co/d/9FbWCqe
C60 appears to be the same as 1060. So both are made of the same steel. I guess it comes down to head style and the handle. I like the more curve of the Ochsenkopf. It also looks like it would be better for felling. And the Council better for splitting. But thats just based on width. I've only ever used a michigan(?) style axe like the Council. So these are uneducated guesses. The gransfor bruks is the eu style tho. Amd seems to get high ratings in every category.
Anyone have opinions on these two axes?
I'm not an experienced wood cutter by any means. But I like the lines of the European axe
I'm not going to be much help either considering the only axe I own is a cheapo from Tractor Supply.
ETA: I take that back, I've got another double bit axe that my oldest nephew found, cleaned up as best he could and then painted in order to keep it from rusting.
I had to replace the handle (and I probably did a poor job on that I will admit) and it definitely could use a good sharpening now.
I just got a $10 off email from Paypal for the site that is selling the EU style one. That takes it down to $80 plus tax - shipped. Not bad.
The European one does look nice.
For your purposes, I saw go with what looks good. Personally, I would likely go Council Tool, but I'm boring. :awesome: Though I'm not an aesthetic fan of the Jersey head.
Do it. Do it now. :greenguy:
So I was trying to decide between the:
OCHSENKOPF
European Axe, 3.5 lb. 32 inch handle.
Zoro #: G1627418
Mfr #: OX 209 E-1602
[url unfurl="true"]https://www.zoro.com/ochsenkopf-european-axe-35-lb-ox-209-e-1602/i/G1627418/[/url]
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And the Council Tools Jersey axe. 3.5lb 36 inch handle.
Council Tool SU35J36C 3.5 lb. Jersey Axe Sport Utility Finish - 36" Curved Handle https://a.co/d/31fKtMr
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I ended up going with the Ochsenkopf. As I got it onsale for around $81 shipped. Zoro offered a 15% discount and free shipping. And paypal offered 6% cashback. Which is the same price for the Council Tool.
My only concern was that I gave up 4 inches in handle with the Ochsenkopf. The Ochsenkopf is 32" and the Council is 36".
I have never used a European style axe head. But as it is closer to the Gransford Bruk type head. And that seeming to be the gold standard. I thought I would give it a try.
Do any of you know the differences in the European vs the American axe head in use?
I mean beyond the obvious shape difference. The EU looks like it might cut deeper. With its thinner blade. And maybe the Council would be better at splitting with its wider blade? But again, I have only ever used a standard more American style axe head.
(The Ochsenkopf is from Austria. I'm told its more of a German style head.)
Didn't know if I should answer you here or on Bushcraft. But since I only lurk there...
https://youtu.be/zJS9TI_KkLs
Quote from: flybynight on April 01, 2023, 09:10:40 PMDidn't know if I should answer you here or on Bushcraft. But since I only lurk there...
https://youtu.be/zJS9TI_KkLs
Thank you. Just what I was looking for.
Ya. I ask more bushcraft questions over there too. Woodswalker used to be on there alot.
Quote from: Moab on April 01, 2023, 11:27:23 PMQuote from: flybynight on April 01, 2023, 09:10:40 PMDidn't know if I should answer you here or on Bushcraft. But since I only lurk there...
https://youtu.be/zJS9TI_KkLs
Thank you. Just what I was looking for.
Ya. I ask more bushcraft questions over there too. Woodswalker used to be on there alot.
That was a great video. I'm very glad I bought the EU type head and not the American. Seems alot more versatile. Council does make a nice bushcraft axe with a eu head. I may keep an out for one of those as well.
Quote from: Moab on April 01, 2023, 11:27:23 PMQuote from: flybynight on April 01, 2023, 09:10:40 PMDidn't know if I should answer you here or on Bushcraft. But since I only lurk there...
https://youtu.be/zJS9TI_KkLs
Thank you. Just what I was looking for.
BUT ACTUALLY Ya. I ask more bushcraft questions over there too. Woodswalker used to be on there alot.
Have lurked there forever. Drifted away about ten years back, but came back after woodswalker died just to read his stuff there
Quote from: flybynight on April 02, 2023, 07:15:02 AMQuote from: Moab on April 01, 2023, 11:27:23 PMQuote from: flybynight on April 01, 2023, 09:10:40 PMDidn't know if I should answer you here or on Bushcraft. But since I only lurk there...
https://youtu.be/zJS9TI_KkLs
Thank you. Just what I was looking for.
BUT ACTUALLY Ya. I ask more bushcraft questions over there too. Woodswalker used to be on there alot.
Have lurked there forever. Drifted away about ten years back, but came back after woodswalker died just to read his stuff there
There are some very specialized guys over there. That know a sh*tload about very specific things. There are a couple guys that are axe aficionados. That have owned or own hundreds of axes. Attend national axe get togethers. And write extensively on the subject. (Not to mention a ton of other guys, like woodswalker was on firestarting, that specialize in the most specific of topics.)
One of the axe guys has convinced me to change my mind about the axe I chose. I put in a cancellation this morning. And am probably going to get the Council Tools Jersey axe instead. He also suggested putting a 32" handle on it. It comes with a 36". The axe guy thinks 32" is the sweet spot. But made no mention of height or arm length.
But I'm 6'3" so I'm going to use it for awhile before deciding to change anything. Council Tool also uses a very sophisticated and effective means of mounting the head. Which can't be replicated at home. Not that you can't replace the handle yourself. But still. If I like the stock handle I'll be keeping it.
They dry the handle out to less than 10% moisture. Then use some type of hydraulic or pressure mechanism to mount the head on the handle. Iirc they also reenforce it with two of those round metal stays. Or whatever they are called.
His claim was that the CT would be better at cutting and even finer tasks than the Ochsenkopf. And that the handle on the Ochsenkopf was terribly thick. And would need replacing.
That and the information in the video you posted, about head geometry, and how it effects pressure on the handle. Convinced me to change my mind. EU type heads have a tendency to loosen. As the blade is not in direct line with the handle. I know the same type of head on the gransford bruk is like the gold standard in bushcraft. But I think I will get that type of head in a hatchett. For those purposes. And keep the CT for felling and more general duties.
I also prefer the "sport utility" finish on the CT. Meaning it is bare of all paint or clear coat. So its ready to accept oil. No need to strip all the paint and varnish. The Ochsenkopf comes covered in both. And they spent a fair bit painting it almost two tone with yellow on parts of the blade and handle. I would love to see it stripped. Its probably an even more beautiful axe stripped to bare metal and wood.
I learned alot from that video about the differences in US and EU logging too. With much more finite supply of trees in EU. They typically chopped them at ground level. Instead of waist high or about is comfortable making a normal swing. So US loggers had the luxury of cutting into clean unknotted wood. Whereas the EU logger typically was chopping at the ground/upper root level. (Watching those old clips of that made my back hurt. What a PITA!) Which required a different blade. EU loggers also did their own felling and limbing. Whereas US loggers were often split between fellers and less skilled limbing workers. Both using different axes.
I was really torn between the two axes. Even when I made my purchase. Sort of impulse buying when that sale came along too. But I found the CT cheaper as well. So I'll probably oick it up as soon as the other return is settled.