This Michigan Compound Comes with a Bunker Fit for Doomsday (https://nypost.com/2023/03/02/this-michigan-compound-has-a-5000-square-foot-bunker/?sp_amp_linker=1*le7wkh*amp_id*bnk4cXJLX0dGZGI3b05OU1MzazlLOExjcFlFUGhqb3JvM2pKZ2xONFdQbDdOMnhvWWVmdzJEMDhQVTg2dTl3OA..)
I can see all sorts of shortcomings with the location above.
But it does make me wonder: what elements are necessary to create a practical, defensable, sustainable compound for a group of, say, 12-20 men, women and children to survive an extended WROL/SHTF situation?
And by elements, I mean anything: location, structures, food, power and sanitation systems, defenses, even things like roles/expertise of the inhabitants and system of governance (please stay away from politics).
(https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/Photo-8.jpg?resize=1064,709&quality=75&strip=all)
Over the top in terms of decor (IMHO), but very nice.
Two ponds, but I'd be happier if there were a good spring.
Also, a big detriment is that a large manufacturing plant is slated to be built less than 15 miles away.
Air/water pollution becomes a factor. Also, increased population and the issues from that.
That house is just begging for a thrown/launched/air-dropped Molotov. Defending against that will require a very secure extended perimeter, defense in depth, and anti-air/drone defenses. An on-site fire department would also be needed.
For that price they could have at least had water in the entry fountain. Heck for that price they should have also had a pair of trained trout in it that leap into the air in unison when a car pulls up ( or on command)
Quote from: flybynight on March 17, 2023, 12:12:34 PMFor that price they could have at least had water in the entry fountain. Heck for that price they should have also had a pair of trained trout in it that leap into the air in unison when a car pulls up ( or on command)
With frickin' lasers attached to their heads. :icon_crazy:
Quote from: NT2C on March 17, 2023, 11:55:57 AMThat house is just begging for a thrown/launched/air-dropped Molotov. Defending against that will require a very secure extended perimeter, defense in depth, and anti-air/drone defenses. An on-site fire department would also be needed.
did you see Rambo: Last Blood?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwVtTD4E6I4
Quote from: MacWa77ace on March 17, 2023, 12:30:54 PMQuote from: NT2C on March 17, 2023, 11:55:57 AMThat house is just begging for a thrown/launched/air-dropped Molotov. Defending against that will require a very secure extended perimeter, defense in depth, and anti-air/drone defenses. An on-site fire department would also be needed.
did you see Rambo: Last Blood?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwVtTD4E6I4
I can't really say when the last time was that I watched a movie. The original Star Wars perhaps?
Quote from: NT2C on March 17, 2023, 12:36:32 PMQuote from: MacWa77ace on March 17, 2023, 12:30:54 PMQuote from: NT2C on March 17, 2023, 11:55:57 AMThat house is just begging for a thrown/launched/air-dropped Molotov. Defending against that will require a very secure extended perimeter, defense in depth, and anti-air/drone defenses. An on-site fire department would also be needed.
did you see Rambo: Last Blood?
I can't really say when the last time was that I watched a movie. The original Star Wars perhaps?
That clip is all you'll need to get ideas for uparmoring your compound. If you want to see how that stuff works out in the end, let me know, that's in another clip.
(https://i.imgur.com/aEEbRaO.jpg)
Mac's movie notes remind me of those YT channels devoted to explaining (which is to say ruining) popular movies in 5 minutes or less. They always have oddly descriptive but grammatically incorrect titles like:
"Lonely war vet harassed by arrogant police but not realize he deadly trained super soldier soon sadly chagrined by their mistake"
You will need separate households to start with. Every man needs his own "castle" so to speak.
If you can't provide an individual house that is set apart, make it a row house set up.
If necessary you could have a common eating area that doubles as a conference/announcement room. You could also have a common kitchen assuming that it will save on supplies and you have the people/personnel to switch off taking turns cooking and cleaning for such large group functions.
Make sure you have a library/education space also, especially if there are kids of any age. And if they are preschool and younger you are going to need a kid-proof place to corral them while their adult caregivers put in their time for your community, especially if they wind up being single parents for whatever reason.
You need a defensable wall that is large enough to encompass the living quarters and all of your outbuildings such as barns, garages, animal pens, gardens, secure water source and/or water storage.
You'd need to start with a a modern version of something like this.
(https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f960c9eec3ea6951095a69575d728063-lq)
Then you'd need homes for everyone. As well as places for kids and adults to learn schooling, animal husbandry, farming, blacksmithing, assorted manufacturing, medical, etc. You'd want the place to be as self sustained as possible. Having it's own water source, sanitation system, solar or wind power, sustainable ways to feed the group, i.e. fish farm, cattle, sheep, goats, etc, would be paramount.
The group would need to have it's own version of rules that were followed, and a security force that helped keep the place safe. Each person would have to be armed at all times, and should respond to a preplanned location if the place is under attack. The weapons used for defense should all be uniform for ease of training and repair, as well as the same calibers for ease of reloading. The place would benefit if everyone is cross trained in 2-3 extra things, in case of death or injury.
Each home should have a weeks worth of supplies for the home in case of siege, but have a main building where every evening the community meets for dinner. The main building would hold all other food supplies to help feed the group as a whole, and the cooks could rotate out as needed. All of the buildings should be as reinforced as possible to protect from firearm damage. If someone there is smart enough, a way to defend against people snooping with drones would be great.
That's all I have for now...
My cousin lives in a castle. :icon_crazy:
(https://www.inn-salzach.com/images/9q!jlvubzmy-/xburghauser-burg.jpeg.pagespeed.ic.nt_tgBbIhO.jpg)
It's not nearly as wicked as it sounds, it's a simple rental apartment. You can buy a castle if you want to, but they are ridiculously expensive on the upkeep.
I don't think living self reliant in a large group is realistic at all sadly. Even historical communities were reliant on outside goods and in the rare case of true self reliant settlements you need a lot of land, and in case things go south you'd need to defend yourself against outsiders. That includes parents with litte kids and I don't think anyone here is callous enough to get rid of a preteen in need of help.
We could still get that pirate ship?
There are two castles for sale (that I know of) in Michigan right now, and a castle-ish house (https://www.homes.com/property/19551-burlington-dr-detroit-mi/svz8509n0shdv/?ds_c=DSA%20-%20x%20-%20National%20-%20MI%20-%20x%20-%20x%20-%20USA%20-%20x%20-) which is a pending sale now. This one is located in the Palmer Woods neighborhood in Detroit, so it also has the drawback of around $18k / year in property taxes at it's $495k asking price! It's the only one of the three with a gigantic banquet hall, complete with wooden beams, stone walls, and hanging chandeliers!
(https://images.homes.com/listings/210/3303012292-685255641-original.jpg)
The most expensive of them (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2009-Victoria-Hl-Rochester-MI-48306/24364811_zpid/) ($2.5million) has been written up all over the place and is also the newest of the bunch. It's really cool, but just slightly out of my own price range! I particularly like the hidden pub down in the basement.
(https://photos.zillowstatic.com/fp/91b01776bc60e304ca763d6ddccfd4ac-uncropped_scaled_within_1344_1008.jpg)
The only one which is affordable (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1719-Military-St-Port-Huron-MI-48060/77907258_zpid/?) is because it needs a ton of work (they don't even bother to post pictures of the kitchen or bathrooms and it's a cash only sale - no mortgage). The price has been dropping repeatedly over the last 2+ years in an attempt to sell it and is now down to $200k. However, that doesn't take into account the updates / repairs which are needed, which I'm guessing would run mid-6-figures. Unfortunately, it's also the smallest lot (1/4 acre) and is located on a main road, so the location is pretty poor. It has potential though and I really dig the outdoor tower room!
(https://photos.zillowstatic.com/fp/097caccb10495cfe73d47ef09252d414-uncropped_scaled_within_1344_1008.jpg)
Those are not castles. Proper fortified castles with meter thick walls, moving bridges and castle keep.
I need a disambiguation for castly castle and chateauy castle. I'm talking castly castle. We can get cannons and trebuchets and bombard the zombies. :icon_crazy:
Shouldn't camouflage be considered as well? If it looks too good, it bound to attract unwanted attention?
it's tough to provide an answer when the problem is not well defined.
- what elements are necessary to create a
defensible: Defensible against what? For how long?
sustainable: With what resources and to what degree? For how long?
compound for a group of, say, 12-20 men, women and children to survive an extended WROL/SHTF situation? That is also wide open without a model. For lack of a better model I would suggest using current day Sudan. A civil war is a tough nut to crack.
And by elements, I mean anything: location, structures, food, power and sanitation systems, defenses, even things like roles/expertise of the inhabitants and system of governance (please stay away from politics).
No group of people 12-20 will survive contact with even a small military unit in the WROL scenario. You would have to be hidden somewhere that no one wants, appear completely indigent and resource free. Even then it won't matter. Units in Sudan are looting pretty much everything. A structure like a castle that looks like it may hold resources will be near the top of the target list. Murphy's Rule of "Try to look unimportant and inconspicuous" as theme is a good one for smaller groups.
You could go to ground and live the Morlock life. The amount of money to set up a sustainable underground facility in a remote area for 20 people would be eye watering unless you happen to own a large cave complex. If you are going to spend that kind of money, you may as well hire a professional to do it. But being hidden and living underground would certainly be the safest way to go if you are fixed in one place. Japanese Soldiers lived in caves for years after the war, waiting for Imperial Japan to come get them. Once you get found out, it's all over.
The Motte and Bailey posted above isn't a terrible idea in concept, it was used for 700 years in Europe and other places with mixed success. It died with the use of guns and cannons. Supposing you could set up a late mini-19th Century Fort for 12-20 people, say like Tilbury or Morgan that are designed to be defended with guns and cannons, it will be quickly overwhelmed by the first larger force that comes along and wants what you have. There have been very few defensive structures built by men that have never been captured by an enemy.
Really your resources are going to dictate your strategy, what you can defend against and for how long.