Civil war. A non political possible disaster conversation.

[Moab]

How do we discuss recent developments in the widespread unrest? Without discussing politics? 

Can we discuss it only in terms of developments? Or risk assessments?

@NT2C ? Mods? I understand this is a touchy issue. Does anyone agree or disagree that this should at least be discussed as a possible nationwide or widespread "event"? 

If the powers that be do. Maybe some guidelines might be helpful?

Former presidents and current president appear to be pitted against each other - publicly. That is a serious departure in our recent history. I don't recall a time when there was this much public disagreement between current and former leaders - that was not concentrated on de-escalating the situation. Everything seems to be directed at further dividing the general public. 

Feels like a recipe for anything but calm. Concerning. That's my point basically. It's disturbing that we don't have a voice of calm. Not taking sides. Just seems any voice of reason is not being publicized. 

https://news.sky.com/story/minneapolis-latest-trump-immigration-protests-ice-alex-pretti-obama-insurrection-act-13498447

[NT2C]

Maybe my viewpoint is more simplistic than most, but I see beyond the political aspects of it to the core issue: law enforcement.

Either you are in favor of the laws of this nation being upheld, and I mean federal laws, not parking fines down by the mall, or you are not.

[majorhavoc]

I see it differently than you, NT2C. Which is why I personally don't see how I can participate in this type of discussion beyond how it directly impacts emergency preparation and personal safety.  If you want to support law enforcement, fine.  If you want to exercise your 1A rights to protest peacefully, fine.  If you want to exercise your 2A rights to carry a firearm, fine.  Just please, be smart and reasonable about it. 

Nobody, and I mean nobody is going to convince someone else to give up their perspective on these events and adopt your point of view. We're well past that point.  Walk away from confrontations, not toward them.

ETA: and by "your point of view", I don't mean you specifically, NT2C.  I mean everybody on all sides of these issues.

[Lambykins]

I see it differently than you, NT2C. Which is why I personally don't see how I can participate in this type of discussion beyond how it directly impacts emergency preparation and personal safety.  If you want to support law enforcement, fine.  If you want to exercise your 1A rights to protest peacefully, fine.  If you want to exercise your 2A rights to carry a firearm, fine.  Just please, be smart and reasonable about it. 

Nobody, and I mean nobody is going to convince someone else to give up their perspective on these events and adopt your point of view. We're well past that point.  Walk away from confrontations, not toward them.

ETA: and by "your point of view", I don't mean you specifically, NT2C.  I mean everybody on all sides of these issues.

That is the best advice..."walk away from confrontations, not toward them."
As a young woman, I got involved in political protests. (It was the 70s, damn near everyone got involved). BUT I had common sense. If violence started...regardless of who started it...I left. Period.
Despite being a very small town/village, we have had some protests up here. The protests were in the summer ('cause ain't nobody devoted enough to get out there when it is 20 degrees below zero).
The protests ended very abruptly when a couple of protestors screamed obscenities at and knocked a...red baseball cap off the head of a 7 year old boy. The child was immediately defended by his family AND by some "counter protestors" who were nearby.
Local LEO informed the original protestors that they were done. Either they immediately stopped their demonstrations OR the family would be charging all the protestors with assault, verbal abuse of a minor, etc. As it was, only the 3 actual people that cussed at the kid and knocked his hat off were charged.

The point here...this has caused divides in what has been a very cohesive community.
It's always been about neighbors helping neighbors here. By the end of summer, a lot of that went by the wayside. Some neighbors aren't even talking to neighbors. It's so sad to me.

[Moab]

I don't think this is what I meant. I wasn't asking anyone's opinion for or against what is going on. Or that we even discuss that aspect. But keeping each other informed about what appears to be a possible national emergency.

We can of course discuss whether we think it's going to get worse. But I think any discussion for or against the actual event? That's a recipe for getting this thread shut down. And not staying informed about what I see as an actual possible national emergency.

Let's stick to basic threat assessment. We may not be able to discuss the politics. But we can at least try to stay informed. And ask each other "Is this getting worse? Do I need to make additional preparations?":

Basic threat assessment topics (prep-focused, non-political):

Intent 
– Are people trying to cause real harm or disruption? Are their events spilling over beyond the main protests? Subterfuge etc.

Capability 
– Do they have the means to do it? Any reports of escalating violence? Protestors becoming more armed? Escalating violent tactics?

Opportunity 
– Can it realistically happen where you live?

Escalation signs 
– Is it growing, spreading, or intensifying?

Targets 
– Random areas or specific locations?

Triggers 
– What events could make it worse fast?

Spillover risk 
– Can unrest migrate into normally quiet areas?

Timeline 
– Short-term chaos vs long-term instability

Personal exposure 
– How likely you are to be affected

Mitigation 
– What you do to reduce risk (avoidance, supplies, movement, hardening, comms)

This isn't meant to be a list of things justifying your own point of view. But keeping an eye on key things that might indicate escalation. And a need to prepare for an emergency.

[majorhavoc]

I don't think this is what I meant. I wasn't asking anyone's opinion for or against what is going on. Or that we even discuss that aspect. But keeping each other informed about what appears to be a possible national emergency.

We can of course discuss whether we think it's going to get worse. But I think any discussion for or against the actual event? That's a recipe for getting this thread shut down. And not staying informed about what I see as an actual possible national emergency.

Let's stick to basic threat assessment. We may not be able to discuss the politics. But we can at least try to stay informed. And ask each other "Is this getting worse? Do I need to make additional preparations?":

Basic threat assessment topics (prep-focused, non-political):

Intent 
– Are people trying to cause real harm or disruption? Are their events spilling over beyond the main protests? Subterfuge etc.

Capability 
– Do they have the means to do it? Any reports of escalating violence? Protestors becoming more armed? Escalating violent tactics?

Opportunity 
– Can it realistically happen where you live?

Escalation signs 
– Is it growing, spreading, or intensifying?

Targets 
– Random areas or specific locations?

Triggers 
– What events could make it worse fast?

Spillover risk 
– Can unrest migrate into normally quiet areas?

Timeline 
– Short-term chaos vs long-term instability

Personal exposure 
– How likely you are to be affected

Mitigation 
– What you do to reduce risk (avoidance, supplies, movement, hardening, comms)

This isn't meant to be a list of things justifying your own point of view. But keeping an eye on key things that might indicate escalation. And a need to prepare for an emergency.

I don't see how we can talk about this outside the very narrow scope I suggested without it quickly turning political.  Just discussing the first item on your list ("Intent") is going to lead down a path our forum rules rules prohibit.  For example, exactly what "people" and "their events" are you talking about?  Don't answer that.  My point is this whole subject is fraught with politics.  What might seem like a simple, apolitical statement or question to you or me may carry a political implication (intentional or not) in the eyes of others and they'll react to it.  Locking threads, giving people timeouts or weilding the ban hammer is no fun for anyone involved. NT2C doesn't pay me enough to deal with the shitstorm this could lead to. (although I do really enjoy my monthly package of salted peanuts ... )

This is easily the most controversial, emotionally charged, split-along-partisan-lines issue since ... well since the last time Minneapolis blew up.  We need to tread very carefully here.

[NT2C]

(although I do really enjoy my monthly package of salted peanuts ... )

A well-known Virginia delicacy!

[Z.O.R.G.]

I spent some time thinking about this, as it's a pretty deep topic for me. I'll refer to viewpoint "A" and "B" as opposed to political parties. I'll also only discuss how I see it "getting worse" and not where it's going.

I think an important thing that is needed it to understood is that news is much closer to propaganda at this point. If you're predisposed to the viewpoint of "A" you most likely get your information form a source you agree with. Same thing for viewpoint "B." It's in the interest of both viewpoints and information feeds (clicks, votes, and add revenue) to pump up their "base" and demonize the other. If someone from viewpoint A does something "good" it's likely amplified by information feed A, and not covered or marginalized by information feed B. If someone from B does something "bad" it's amplified by information feed A and marginalized by feed B.

As this escalates, the divide between viewpoints A & B is reinforced and your side is viewed as right in all things while the other side is wrong in everything. This can lead to abstracting the other side - "the A(s) are...." The linguistic use of "the" has traditionally been used to dehumanize groups of people in the past and justify of doing whatever is necessary for the one side to be victorious.

There's a great quote from Babylon 5 "Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth." We need understanding, not proving our (A or B) viewpoint "right" and the other "wrong."

[Moab]

I don't think this is what I meant. I wasn't asking anyone's opinion for or against what is going on. Or that we even discuss that aspect. But keeping each other informed about what appears to be a possible national emergency.

We can of course discuss whether we think it's going to get worse. But I think any discussion for or against the actual event? That's a recipe for getting this thread shut down. And not staying informed about what I see as an actual possible national emergency.

Let's stick to basic threat assessment. We may not be able to discuss the politics. But we can at least try to stay informed. And ask each other "Is this getting worse? Do I need to make additional preparations?":

Basic threat assessment topics (prep-focused, non-political):

Intent 
– Are people trying to cause real harm or disruption? Are their events spilling over beyond the main protests? Subterfuge etc.

Capability 
– Do they have the means to do it? Any reports of escalating violence? Protestors becoming more armed? Escalating violent tactics?

Opportunity 
– Can it realistically happen where you live?

Escalation signs 
– Is it growing, spreading, or intensifying?

Targets 
– Random areas or specific locations?

Triggers 
– What events could make it worse fast?

Spillover risk 
– Can unrest migrate into normally quiet areas?

Timeline 
– Short-term chaos vs long-term instability

Personal exposure 
– How likely you are to be affected

Mitigation 
– What you do to reduce risk (avoidance, supplies, movement, hardening, comms)

This isn't meant to be a list of things justifying your own point of view. But keeping an eye on key things that might indicate escalation. And a need to prepare for an emergency.

I don't see how we can talk about this outside the very narrow scope I suggested without it quickly turning political.  Just discussing the first item on your list ("Intent") is going to lead down a path our forum rules rules prohibit.  For example, exactly what "people" and "their events" are you talking about?  Don't answer that.  My point is this whole subject is fraught with politics.  What might seem like a simple, apolitical statement or question to you or me may carry a political implication (intentional or not) in the eyes of others and they'll react to it.  Locking threads, giving people timeouts or weilding the ban hammer is no fun for anyone involved. NT2C doesn't pay me enough to deal with the shitstorm this could lead to. (although I do really enjoy my monthly package of salted peanuts ... )

This is easily the most controversial, emotionally charged, split-along-partisan-lines issue since ... well since the last time Minneapolis blew up.  We need to tread very carefully here.

I think that's the opposite of what I'm saying. Rather than discuss our opinions on right or wrong (which several of us did) I'm suggesting we only update each other on it escalating. And it's potential for a national emergency.

I agree the word "intent" is troublesome. And I struggled with it. Let's remove it.

Rather than intent, I think it's more productive and a better part of a risk assessment, to simply ask "What might be happening beyond a protest or demonstration? That might be moving more in the direction of rioting, violence or something worse?"

I think we have the capacity to do that. Without offending one another. I think that is the purpose of our agreement to not discuss politics.

In answer to @Z.O.R.G. - I agree that the biggest problem is everyone is living in a separate algorithm. Getting a completely different set of information from social media and legacy news. We think we are arguing about the same thing. But without considering the messenger we are not. It is two widely separate sources of information.

I don't know how to solve that except to be sure to cite sources. Be sure to link the original source as best we can. That doesn't solve the issue of our obviously one sided information sources.

But maybe if we can stick to just posting the information. We can each make a fair assessment of what we might be facing.

To ignore these events as a prepping organization seems seems not wise.

Rewritten assessment guidelines below. I think we should continue to revisit and revise these as best we can. It might be helpful to help us stay on track.

Basic threat assessment topics (prep-focused, non-political):

Scope
Is this becoming bigger or more widespread? Is there evidence of this moving beyond demonstration or protest, maybe even outside of the direct contact with federal officers, into a more active act of violence against people or property into more widespread areas?

Capability 
– Do they have the means to do it? Any reports of escalating violence? Protestors becoming more armed? Escalating violent tactics?

Opportunity 
– Can it realistically happen where you live?

Escalation signs 
– Is it growing, spreading, or intensifying?

Targets 
– Random areas or specific locations?

Triggers 
– What events could make it worse fast?

Spillover risk 
– Can unrest migrate into normally quiet areas?

Timeline 
– Short-term chaos vs long-term instability

Personal exposure 
– How likely you are to be affected

Mitigation 
– What you do to reduce risk (avoidance, supplies, movement, hardening, comms)

This isn't meant to be a list of things justifying your own point of view. But keeping an eye on key things that might indicate escalation. And a need to prepare for an emergency.

[Lambykins]

.....snip....
But maybe if we can stick to just posting the information. We can each make a fair assessment of what we might be facing.

To ignore these events as a prepping organization seems seems not wise.

Rewritten assessment guidelines below. I think we should continue to revisit and revise these as best we can. It might be helpful to help us stay on track.

Basic threat assessment topics (prep-focused, non-political):

Scope
Is this becoming bigger or more widespread? Is there evidence of this moving beyond demonstration or protest, maybe even outside of the direct contact with federal officers, into a more active act of violence against people or property into more widespread areas?

Capability 
– Do they have the means to do it? Any reports of escalating violence? Protestors becoming more armed? Escalating violent tactics?

Opportunity 
– Can it realistically happen where you live?

Escalation signs 
– Is it growing, spreading, or intensifying?

Targets 
– Random areas or specific locations?

Triggers 
– What events could make it worse fast?

Spillover risk 
– Can unrest migrate into normally quiet areas?

Timeline 
– Short-term chaos vs long-term instability

Personal exposure 
– How likely you are to be affected

Mitigation 
– What you do to reduce risk (avoidance, supplies, movement, hardening, comms)

This isn't meant to be a list of things justifying your own point of view. But keeping an eye on key things that might indicate escalation. And a need to prepare for an emergency.

I think this is a good list. It also points to that giant factor in a volatile environment: Situational Awareness.
It's no longer *just* sitting with your back to the wall and knowing where the exits are.
A lot more factors come into play.
For people in the affected areas, I guess that would mean having a good working knowledge of alternate traffic routes,  keeping up to date on current local news reports, etc., even down to what is considered *safe* to wear as even your wardrobe choices seem to come into play.
My heart goes out to folks living in those areas, as it seems that regardless of political leanings, they are and will be affected.

[Moab]

.....snip....
But maybe if we can stick to just posting the information. We can each make a fair assessment of what we might be facing.

To ignore these events as a prepping organization seems seems not wise.

Rewritten assessment guidelines below. I think we should continue to revisit and revise these as best we can. It might be helpful to help us stay on track.

Basic threat assessment topics (prep-focused, non-political):

Scope
Is this becoming bigger or more widespread? Is there evidence of this moving beyond demonstration or protest, maybe even outside of the direct contact with federal officers, into a more active act of violence against people or property into more widespread areas?

Capability 
– Do they have the means to do it? Any reports of escalating violence? Protestors becoming more armed? Escalating violent tactics?

Opportunity 
– Can it realistically happen where you live?

Escalation signs 
– Is it growing, spreading, or intensifying?

Targets 
– Random areas or specific locations?

Triggers 
– What events could make it worse fast?

Spillover risk 
– Can unrest migrate into normally quiet areas?

Timeline 
– Short-term chaos vs long-term instability

Personal exposure 
– How likely you are to be affected

Mitigation 
– What you do to reduce risk (avoidance, supplies, movement, hardening, comms)

This isn't meant to be a list of things justifying your own point of view. But keeping an eye on key things that might indicate escalation. And a need to prepare for an emergency.

I think this is a good list. It also points to that giant factor in a volatile environment: Situational Awareness.
It's no longer *just* sitting with your back to the wall and knowing where the exits are.
A lot more factors come into play.
For people in the affected areas, I guess that would mean having a good working knowledge of alternate traffic routes,  keeping up to date on current local news reports, etc., even down to what is considered *safe* to wear as even your wardrobe choices seem to come into play.
My heart goes out to folks living in those areas, as it seems that regardless of political leanings, they are and will be affected.

Agreed. I had the same conversation with my son. When he wanted to join demonstrations last year downtown Los Angeles. I thought about it a long time. Because even though we may not agree politically all the time. I respected him for his convictions and willingness to take action on those convictions. Agree or disagree I respect that he has strong opinions. And a willingness to back them up.

But I had my concerns. I thought about what to say a long time. I didn't want him to think my concerns were disagreeing with his views or what he had chosen to do. I respect him and his decisions and opinions are his - not mine to dictate.

It was in support of Hispanic communities in LA. My son had a Hispanic gf at the time. And has lots of lifetime Hispanic friends in LA. But my son is also very tall and very white. And also 25. He's his own man and makes his own decisions. He's very smart. But I didn't want him in that environment.

Downtown LA is surrounded by a very poor, Hispanic, major gang area. MS13 controls a large part of that area. Every riot after a major Dodgers game is made much worse by this geography. It's famous for riots.

So this what I told him:

A demonstration is one thing. But a riot is a completely different thing.

Demonstrations don't turn into riots slowly. You don't see it happening until it's to late. It happens very fast. And in that environment, in the chaos of rioters and police, it could become very dangerous very quickly.

I told him to keep this at the forefront of his mind. He agreed that he wanted no part of a riot. And would stay alert for that. I told him to take a backpack. I made a list of items he needed to take care of himself and his safety. No weapons. Just various items that he might need. Including paper maps with routes out of the area and to safety. Water. Masks and rags and safety glasses. First aid. Etc.

I mapped out every route out of there.

In the end he ended up not being able to go. To say I was relieved was an understatement.

But that was one thing I could say that was true. These things never start out as a riot. They just become that - quickly. And people easily get caught up in the mob mentality. Or go there with that on their mind. At least these days.

I don't get the feeling any of these are peaceful demonstrations. Regardless of your beliefs I think the one thing we can all agree on is these are not safe spaces. No matter which side you are on.

As for it becoming larger. I'm concerned at the lack of any voice of reason. In any other instance a mayor or someone else in a leadership position would have come out and tried to calm down the situation. Not taking sides. Just trying to keep it within legal peaceful demonstrations.

I'm hearing none of that. Everyone seems to be taking a side. Even leaders. And this isn't to point s finger. But mayors, governors, sitting and former presidents. Seem to be doing nothing but flaming the fire. It's very disappointing. And very strange and disconcerting. I support Americans rights to demonstrate, and all of our constitutional rights. But this does not seem peaceful. And no one in leadership seems to be interested in keeping it that way.

My main point:

*That's what's different about this. Why I'm so concerned. And why I started this thread. I think it has the potential to become an emergency we may all need to keep a sharp eye on.

Where's the even toned leader, supporting American rights, supporting opinions for and against what's going on - but concerned about safety and our right to "peacefully" protest? But urging people to not participate in violence.

That lack of reason makes me see this differently. It's almost like both sides want this to escalate.

I hope I'm wrong.

[aikorob]

(although I do really enjoy my monthly package of salted peanuts ... )

A well-known Virginia delicacy!

Hubs peanuts? they are good!

****************************************************
Back on topic..............live by the "3 stupids"rule

Don't go to stupid places, with stupid people, and do stupid things.

Simplistic? yes -- but if you can take steps to not be in an conflicted area, or around conflicting people; the chances of you being memorialized in these pages goes waaaaaaay down

[NT2C]

(although I do really enjoy my monthly package of salted peanuts ... )

A well-known Virginia delicacy!

Hubs peanuts? they are good!

Back ordered 

Went with King Floyd's

[Moab]

(although I do really enjoy my monthly package of salted peanuts ... )

A well-known Virginia delicacy!

Hubs peanuts? they are good!

****************************************************
Back on topic..............live by the "3 stupids"rule

Don't go to stupid places, with stupid people, and do stupid things.

Simplistic? yes -- but if you can take steps to not be in an conflicted area, or around conflicting people; the chances of you being memorialized in these pages goes waaaaaaay down

Agreed. That's a given. "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

My concern is wider spread adoption of what appears to be organized civil disobedience (I'm not even sure I know the actual definition of that) but bordering on something much more. The activists are turning violent and there is a huge spilt between local and federal law enforcement.

Minneapolis seems to have a long standing community of more radical activists. So maybe all of this is just centered there. But the media (meaning social and legacy) and officials seem to be more about stoking this into something bigger. Rather than civil safety.

The local police have literally abandoned these areas. Video shows intense demonstrations and the local pd turning around and driving away. Or not in those areas at all. Activists are policing the streets as if they are the local law enforcement.

Regional police are refusing to release or transfer illegals with criminal records to federal authorities. Which has apparently been going on for some time. There seems to be a very serious deep split between local and federal government's that I don't recall ever seeing before.

When we have a split like that between the state and local governments and the federal government it makes me more seriously consider the possibility of civil war. But I know that's a stretch. I did see a couple leaders speaking out for calm. One was Biden. I forget the other. But neither were spot lighted or seem to be taken very seriously.

One thing I'm constantly left with these days. Is what the @$&#! is going on? I don't think anyone can even figure out what this is all about. We have our theories. But what is the end game? And more importantly who is behind this? So much of it seems to not make sense. You can see who benefits from various aspects. But then you can also see how damaging certain choices are to each side.

Instead of a well thought out strategy. It just seems like mayhem. Mayhem is a good word to describe our country right now.

I hope I haven't skirted to directly into politics. Or come off taking a side. I'm trying very hard to simply assess the danger level. And pay attention to any progression.

[aikorob]

One thing I'm constantly left with these days. Is what the @$&#! is going on? I don't think anyone can even figure out what this is all about. We have our theories. But what is the end game? And more importantly who is behind this? So much of it seems to not make sense. You can see who benefits from various aspects. But then you can also see how damaging certain choices are to each side.

Instead of a well thought out strategy. It just seems like mayhem. Mayhem is a good word to describe our country right now.

some people just want to watch the world burn..........others think that their plan/tribe/viewpoint will be there to pick up the pieces, and  THIS TIME, WE'LL GET IT RIGHT! ---not like those other guys

[NT2C]

One thing I'm constantly left with these days. Is what the @$&#! is going on? I don't think anyone can even figure out what this is all about. We have our theories. But what is the end game? And more importantly who is behind this? So much of it seems to not make sense. You can see who benefits from various aspects. But then you can also see how damaging certain choices are to each side.

Instead of a well thought out strategy. It just seems like mayhem. Mayhem is a good word to describe our country right now.

some people just want to watch the world burn..........others think that their plan/tribe/viewpoint will be there to pick up the pieces, and  THIS TIME, WE'LL GET IT RIGHT! ---not like those other guys

Meanwhile, folks like us just want to survive it.

[Moab]

One thing I'm constantly left with these days. Is what the @$&#! is going on? I don't think anyone can even figure out what this is all about. We have our theories. But what is the end game? And more importantly who is behind this? So much of it seems to not make sense. You can see who benefits from various aspects. But then you can also see how damaging certain choices are to each side.

Instead of a well thought out strategy. It just seems like mayhem. Mayhem is a good word to describe our country right now.

some people just want to watch the world burn..........others think that their plan/tribe/viewpoint will be there to pick up the pieces, and  THIS TIME, WE'LL GET IT RIGHT! ---not like those other guys

Meanwhile, folks like us just want to survive it.

Agree with both of you. Many of the younger generations have lived thru so much f ed up stuff they are largely the ones looking for everything to burn. The American dream - a job that can afford a wife, house, car, kids - has been dead since they've been born. Their faith in democracy is eroded. Is understandably destroyed. They see thru the mess the press and social media has become. And it's largely been this apathetic view that's led them to considering other forms of government. And radical burning it all down. And the education system has not helped that. 

To be honest I see a lot of positive things happening to the US economy that will hopefully change the accessibility of the American dream. Especially for young people. Over the coming years. But the financial markets are in a great deal of flux as well. 

On the subject at hand. It seems for about a day that the fed was having at least productive conversations with local and state authorities. It seems like they were starting to cooperate. And then the same local and state authorities came out and reversed that. So who knows. I have not read any news or social media yet today. 

[echo83]

My concern is wider spread adoption of what appears to be organized civil disobedience (I'm not even sure I know the actual definition of that) but bordering on something much more. The activists are turning violent and there is a huge spilt between local and federal law enforcement.

Minneapolis seems to have a long standing community of more radical activists. So maybe all of this is just centered there. But the media (meaning social and legacy) and officials seem to be more about stoking this into something bigger. Rather than civil safety.

The local police have literally abandoned these areas. Video shows intense demonstrations and the local pd turning around and driving away. Or not in those areas at all. Activists are policing the streets as if they are the local law enforcement.

I'm trying so hard to thread the needle here. If I'm out of line, please let me know. 

What I'm kind of amazed at is that there hasn't been more violence between groups of civilians/protestors/counterprotestors. Debate the efficacy of local and federal law enforcement all you want, but their very presence, while inflammatory to certain groups of people, seems to me to be preventing this from devolving further. Is it because LEO in any form is a more attractive target than a group of civilians with an opposing viewpoint? 

I have seen numerous videos of civilians blocking traffic and demanding that vehicle occupants prove they're not ICE. (For people fearful of a "papers, please" society, they're getting awfully close, themselves....but I digress.)

It's only a matter of time before this results in tragedy. Someone is going to get angry or panic, then mash the gas pedal, and someone is going to be hurt or killed. 

It's a terrible analogy, but LEO is like flypaper in this situation. Everything is sticking to them instead of spreading throughout the area. 

[Moab]

My concern is wider spread adoption of what appears to be organized civil disobedience (I'm not even sure I know the actual definition of that) but bordering on something much more. The activists are turning violent and there is a huge spilt between local and federal law enforcement.

Minneapolis seems to have a long standing community of more radical activists. So maybe all of this is just centered there. But the media (meaning social and legacy) and officials seem to be more about stoking this into something bigger. Rather than civil safety.

The local police have literally abandoned these areas. Video shows intense demonstrations and the local pd turning around and driving away. Or not in those areas at all. Activists are policing the streets as if they are the local law enforcement.

I'm trying so hard to thread the needle here. If I'm out of line, please let me know.

What I'm kind of amazed at is that there hasn't been more violence between groups of civilians/protestors/counterprotestors. Debate the efficacy of local and federal law enforcement all you want, but their very presence, while inflammatory to certain groups of people, seems to me to be preventing this from devolving further. Is it because LEO in any form is a more attractive target than a group of civilians with an opposing viewpoint?

I have seen numerous videos of civilians blocking traffic and demanding that vehicle occupants prove they're not ICE. (For people fearful of a "papers, please" society, they're getting awfully close, themselves....but I digress.)

It's only a matter of time before this results in tragedy. Someone is going to get angry or panic, then mash the gas pedal, and someone is going to be hurt or killed.

It's a terrible analogy, but LEO is like flypaper in this situation. Everything is sticking to them instead of spreading throughout the area.

Threading the needle here myself. 

I personally (and I feel like this might be the feeling in a larger group of folks) have lost all faith in legacy or traditional or major news. Whatever you want to call it. 

We are certainly all in different algorithms. Which I think amplifies differences in a very significant way. And does nothing to bring sense to anything. 

But the major news has been so disproportionately one sided. For so long. And in such an extreme fashion. I've lost faith in it completely. And if the ratings are any indication most Americans have too. 

Which is to say I don't think that if there is a larger group of folks who disagree with the storyline - that that would get reported at all. Balanced reporting does not seem to exist anymore. Not even a counter point editorial. Except online in podcasts and social media. 

More people have moved in that direction for information. But it's difficult to consider not having the "evening news" as an arbitor of reality. I think for some people not seeing the evening news as the gospel of reality. Sends them into an unknown world that brings a great deal of uncertainty and panic. The news provides a mental safety net. There was a time for many years when saying "I saw it on the news ".  Was the test for whether something was real or not. I think for many Americans, who have moved on to podcasts and social media, that idea no longer holds true. Seeing something in the news does not necessarily spell "reality" to them. 

I guess what I'm getting at, @echo83 , is that I think there is a larger part of the population that is skeptical of the protests. Enough that they want nothing to do with it. And why we aren't seeing large counter protests. 

But perhaps I'm stuck in enough of my own algorithm. That I don't see things clearly. Who knows?

One thing I know is that many Americans have been questioning information sources for a long time. To the extent that many alternative information podcasts routinely out perform the news. And the news ratings have plummeted for years. 

What I see openly discussed online. Never gets discussed on the news. Not even mentioned. That alone is a red flag. Open, civil debate has been replaced. Polls are largely ignored and mistrusted. 

It makes me wonder, much like the news, who is behind this? And if I can't even figure out who is behind this? Why would I place myself in that demonstration environment with so much obvious high possibility for violence? 

I think most Americans are sensible. Have more in common than not. Are not at either end of the political spectrum. But that's what the news would have you believe. That we are all at one end of the spectrum. Or should be. 

I think that's a message a large number of Americans are no longer participating in. Just not enough to oppose it in a foolhardy way like a counter protest. And let's be honest these are leaning way more towards a riot than a protest. I don't think anyone believes that a peaceful counter protest could remain that way for very long. And that you'd most likely be putting yourself in real danger. 

I hope my skirting - skirted enough. My apologies if it didn't. And I'm more than willing to delete any or all of this. 

[TACAIR]

I see this current situation (mass 'protests') sweeping the US mainland.

Gotta know the players.

1. Activists - folks out to raise hell owing to some passion or the need for 'revenge' of past insult/injury.  Might be considered a fellow traveler.  

2.  Paid protesters.   Actively recruited and fed a story line and given professionally produced signs.  They are in it for the $$$.  These, IMO, will be the first to run when things go south.  The money source deserves to be investigated/charged for inciting...

3.  Useful idiots.  Egged on by social media, they are the most confused by the real issue set - often just bored sheep waiting to get clobbered by the event.  BTW - no pity here.

4.  Professional agitators    The worst of the Activist class.  They really do want to burn down your city/hut/hovel.  Bat-shit crazy?  Maybe and maybe not, but zealots have been to the bane of most civilization since the era of AD.

Bottom line - 
No where you might or might not fall on any given subject, being around a large mass of pissed off whatevers, is bad for your health - always.

I check for any planned "protests of demonstrations" before I leave home so I can avoid the area like the plague...
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