Best Melee (aka hand-to-hand) weapons

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

Regarding melee weapons, this video popped up in my recommended videos list on YouTube and it's pretty neat.

Dude makes a medieval style war hammer out of some plumbing pipe and a wooden dowel.


https://youtu.be/xQde1xCw7yM

That's pretty cool.  I don't think I would use a dowel rod as the handle, they are prone to breaking, unless you can find a good hardwood one.  IIRC most dowels are pine.

I'd probably use something else than a dowel rod too.

It'd weigh more, but I'd think another length of plumbing pipe might work better than a dowel rod.

[Nyte]

Regarding melee weapons, this video popped up in my recommended videos list on YouTube and it's pretty neat.

Dude makes a medieval style war hammer out of some plumbing pipe and a wooden dowel.


https://youtu.be/xQde1xCw7yM

That's pretty cool.  I don't think I would use a dowel rod as the handle, they are prone to breaking, unless you can find a good hardwood one.  IIRC most dowels are pine.

I'd probably use something else than a dowel rod too.

It'd weigh more, but I'd think another length of plumbing pipe might work better than a dowel rod.

The problem with another length of pipe wouldn't be the weight, but the vibration.  Anytime you hit something, it would jar and vibrate right through your hand and arm.  It'd cost more, but I'd probably get a hardwood Jo staff or Escrima stick and use that for the handle.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

Yeah, I didn't even think of the vibration issue with using another length of pipe for the handle.

But something like an Escrima stick or Jo staff would work a lot better than the pipe or the dowel.

[EBuff75]

I got myself a Corona folding saw recently and while I was unpacking it, I realized that it would make a nasty improvised weapon.  The teeth on the saw are razor sharp and if you swung it like a machete, it could really do some damage, particularly if you hit someone in the face or neck.

[Lodewijk]

I got myself a Corona folding saw recently and while I was unpacking it, I realized that it would make a nasty improvised weapon.  The teeth on the saw are razor sharp and if you swung it like a machete, it could really do some damage, particularly if you hit someone in the face or neck.

Isn't that sort of the general idea behind the Spyderco Civilian? Sounds nasty.

[EBuff75]

I got myself a Corona folding saw recently and while I was unpacking it, I realized that it would make a nasty improvised weapon.  The teeth on the saw are razor sharp and if you swung it like a machete, it could really do some damage, particularly if you hit someone in the face or neck.

Isn't that sort of the general idea behind the Spyderco Civilian? Sounds nasty.

Basically.  Except this is 10-inches long, with a full hand (or double-hand) grip.  It doesn't have the point/hook on the end though!

[Mr. E. Monkey]

I got myself a Corona folding saw recently and while I was unpacking it, I realized that it would make a nasty improvised weapon.  The teeth on the saw are razor sharp and if you swung it like a machete, it could really do some damage, particularly if you hit someone in the face or neck.

Isn't that sort of the general idea behind the Spyderco Civilian? Sounds nasty.

Damn...now that is a mean looking knife.  

[Red Tamarillo]

The most important aspects are availability (which includes legal aspects- swords are not legal in a lot of places), reach (knife or hammer or tomahawk/hatchet not enough), and speed (a lot of things are heavy and slower i.e. hatchet).

Some heavier, shorter options may have more damage power, but won't get there in time, and are shorter. And realistically once that first hit gets in and shocks, it doesn't have to be one hit one kill to be effective. It's not a Zombie headstrike you need to be planning for.

If you don't want to be too destructive- the Cold Steel sjambok with a knife as backup (sjambok = speed plus reach, targeting head and hands).

Or there's also a spear. Often legal (because of original inhabitants in colonised countries- traditional weapons etc...), as long as you don't walk down the street with it.

https://condortk.com/products?type=3

Awesome reach, and very quick if you let it slip through your front hand.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

I was at the local auto parts store this morning with my oldest nephew and while perusing the aisles, I found a pick and finishing hammer in the dent repair section.

First thought in my head was "I wonder how well or how poorly this would work as a melee weapon."

[NT2C]

My melee weapon of choice after my cane.

[Red Tamarillo]

I was at the local auto parts store this morning with my oldest nephew and while perusing the aisles, I found a pick and finishing hammer in the dent repair section.

First thought in my head was "I wonder how well or how poorly this would work as a melee weapon."

Well you're thoroughly desensitized/looking out for such things.
How would it compare with the Estwing rockpick? was my first thought.
A lot of these hatchets/hammers/tomahawks etc.. It's all about your biceps/steroids, the length of the handle (you can saw wooden handles to make them shorter) and the weight of the head. Reach vs speed vs damage/weight.

[Red Tamarillo]

NT2C- why are you letting me track your jeep? You're being too trustworthy.

I could be a porch pirate and getting your cool stuff whilst you're away (unless your granny is sitting on your porch in a rocking chair with the shotgun). I know about glitter bombs.

(I'm 16,000km/10,000miles away so you don't need to worry).

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

I was at the local auto parts store this morning with my oldest nephew and while perusing the aisles, I found a pick and finishing hammer in the dent repair section.

First thought in my head was "I wonder how well or how poorly this would work as a melee weapon."

Well you're thoroughly desensitized/looking out for such things.
How would it compare with the Estwing rockpick? was my first thought.
A lot of these hatchets/hammers/tomahawks etc.. It's all about your biceps/steroids, the length of the handle (you can saw wooden handles to make them shorter) and the weight of the head. Reach vs speed vs damage/weight.

I'm halfway tempted to go back to the store I found the hammer/pick in and buy it so I can do some testing with it.

Only Estwing things I have are a tanto fixed blade and a tomahawk I bought from the local heavy equipment rental shop.

I could probably do a comparison with the spike on the tomahawk vs. the one on the dent hammer.

[NT2C]

NT2C- why are you letting me track your jeep? You're being too trustworthy.

I could be a porch pirate and getting your cool stuff whilst you're away (unless your granny is sitting on your porch in a rocking chair with the shotgun). I know about glitter bombs.

(I'm 16,000km/10,000miles away so you don't need to worry).

If someone wants to try getting packages off my porch or cause a ruckus at my place, I hope they've made their peace with their deity of choice.  I'll just point out:

• My wife is a Fed
• My best friend is a retired USMC Armed and Unarmed Combat instructor and now a Fed LEO
• There's like a gazillion cameras covering every approach to my house, some visible, a lot hidden
• My neighbor to the South is a retired USMC Master Gunnery Sgt. who now works for a company building military robots... that he can take home for field testing
• My neighbor to the East is a retired USMC Colonel and the boss of my neighbor to the south.
• My neighbor to the West is a retired USMC sniper
• My neighbor to the North was the neighbor to the West's spotter
• I am well-liked by my neighbors because my military time was served on amphibs carrying guys like these around
• One of my other good friends is a retired FBI pilot who now teaches military pilots how to fly Blackhawks from the local airfield. He uses my flagpole as a nav marker and likes to pass by just above treetop height.

In short, your best option is to live 10,000 miles away, or tunnel in.  Good luck getting through that Virginia clay. 

[Red Tamarillo]

That's an impressive tally of neighbours.

[NT2C]

That's an impressive tally of neighbours.

Fun guys to hang with, and their wives are equally impressive.

My best friend's wife is a retired Army Combat Medic, for example.

Edit: County sheriff used to live about 8 houses up from me but he passed away a few years back.  The grandfather of the county clerk lives 4 houses down though, and the new County sheriff is one block over, next door to a state trooper.

This really is a great neighborhood during an "interesting time".

Edit 2: The county treasurer dropped by last night just to shoot the shit at the end of my driveway while his wife walked their new puppies, then he helped me bring my trash cans back up to the house.  They're also neighbors.

[Red Tamarillo]

They recently took the machetes away (i.e. banned) where I live (youth crime). The youths aren't going to give them up. Prior to that the 18 inch bladed latin style machete was a good option (doesn't need to be sci fi or too pointy), and good for the garden/camping. The politicians who made the ruling aren't gardeners or campers.
But recently I discovered I could get swords (with a sword license). (You can still have machetes with the sword license too, you're just not allowed to use them- even in your own fenced back garden).
Anyways I've been looking into Messer type blades (lots of historical info out there). There's all the HEMA stuff too (historical European martial arts- mostly with blades/poleaxes etc..). 
There seems to be commonalities in the ideas behind Messer use i.e. you do a strike, knock the opposition blade off, and follow up with a thrust. And using your other hand to grab the other person/weapon hand after a strike too sometimes. Probably need to study the filipino ideas of criss crossing the face etc...
One handed does end up with giving you more reach most of the time, due to body mechanics.
But legally speaking, also live in a country where you're not allowed to plan for active self defense. You're allowed to put bars and locks and strengthen doors and large dog i.e. passive self defense, but not to stash a sword somewhere. 
You're 'allowed' to plan for other threats against your home and family i.e. floods, power cuts, bushfires etc... just not human ones. 
Which the older I get seems more absurd, and disrespectful of the intelligence of the people living here watching the local news.
As every week there's another home invasion in the news here (4 to 5 young guys 4am in the morning, usually armed with machete, hammer, knives etc... usually not guns). Going for fast/luxury cars mostly, only occasionally access to a safe. There haven't been as many deaths of homeowners as you'd think (though any death is too much).
So if you're legally allowed, my vote is now for the one handed sword, with some kind of hand protection (doesn't need to be basket). Of a length longer than 18" blade, but not too long to be unwieldy.
Ordinary people in the stress of mass combat cut and hack more than thrust (from my reading of historical sword accounts). But an afterthrust or two seems to be good to consider.

[MacWa77ace]

So these home invaders will have machetes? I'd go with anything a little longer. A cricket or baseball bat and stay legal for at least the next year until they make you get a license to own those? 

These were designed for digging, and to be used as mele weapons. Get a couple at a milsurp store.

[Habu]

I was watching "Saving Private Ryan" the other day and I noticed the sniper (Jackson, I think is his name) had a pretty nice blade on his web gear.

It had a stag handle and was definitely not GI issued. Not even sure what a GI issued fixed blade would've been for those guys. I know the Marines got Kabars (of which I still want one.), but I'm not sure what the rest of them got. Aside from the M1 Garand bayonet, I mean.

Rangers and paratroopers got first crack at M3s when they entered service I think.

I've seen a few photos where GIs have what looks like privately purchased knives, which would explain the knife on Jackson's web gear in "Saving Private Ryan".

I wonder what the process for that was back then. Probably entailed filling out some paperwork and making sure the knife fell within some parameters for use.

In early '42, ads started appearing in the newspapers asking for folks to donate hunting knives for the soldiers; meanwhile, the cutlerys were amping up production, but getting enough knives for everyone was a slow process and it wasn't until after the war that there was actually a "standard" knife.  Sailors, for example, were required to carry a 6" sideknife (there was still a lot of rope used, and it could be necessary to cut it away in event of damage to the ship, someone getting caught, etc).  Pilots typically carried a 5" knife.  Marines and infantry carried what they could find.  

As a kid I knew guys who went to Guadalcanal in the initial wave carrying "sticking knives" (double edged knife used in slaughtering to "stick" animals, resulting in exsanguination), the Marbles "Experts" and "Ideals" they got in scouting, etc.  Almost all infantry and marines in combat zones did have a folding knife (usually either a "scout knife" or a 2-blade easy-opening knife.  

By late '42, cutlerys were making as many 6" fixed-blade knives as they could, with a sideline in 5" knives.  Folks were making knives and selling or donating them to the troops.  Through the end of the war many people were still bringing knives from home, buying them in the BX/PX, or "acquiring" them however they could.



The knives were, in general, good knives.  Not uniform, but they served their purpose. A lot are still in the field today.  

I've always thought the concerns about the stick tang of the KaBar was overblown.  I've known a number of people who've abused the heck out of them without managing to break the tang.  The stick tang wasn't a wartime effort to save materials, it was copied from the design of the Marbles "Ideal" and similar knives, which inspired or informed the design of the KaBar.  Stick tangs made it easy to use the preferred handle material: stacked leather washers.  The leather handles used scrap leather from the manufacture of footwear, and was non-flammable.  Per the post-war records, the biggest problem with the stick-tanged knives seems to have been a tendency for the blades to rust and the leather to rot away.  

And yeah, folks were mailing handguns to the soldiers.  There were no federal laws against it (some military regulations though).  Lots of handguns were picked up from POWs, or confiscated from civilians.  (I have it on good authority that it is easier to shoot a free-roaming Italian or Filipino chicken with a Colt Woodsman than it is to run it down and catch it.)

[Red Tamarillo]

This actually reminds me of Confederate D guard bowie knives history i.e. in the first few years of the US Civil war local people in the South supplied through local blacksmiths etc... these individually made big mad looking D guard bowie knives to their local boys going off to war. 

They weren't regulation, there were many different variants from local makers given/sold etc..

(After a while they were discarded apparently as the soldiers had other stuff to carry).