Body Armor?

Started by Limon Man, August 06, 2021, 10:50:11 AM

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Lettuce Pray


That is actually a good bit cheaper than I would have thought. What do your plates weigh?
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Too f'ing much :awesome:

The plates and concealable carrier together weigh about 12 lbs.

When I bought them they had 2 plates and concealable carrier on sale for $99 (+S&H). The current price is way down from the 2020 price.
[/quote]
12 pounds is quite reasonable. I know this is apples and oranges, but I remember my IBA weighing around 20 pounds prior to ammo, IFAK, and water. WITH everything it was 35-40.

woodsghost

#21
Keep in mind what a Lvl III rating indicates: .30 cal threats and green tip 5.56 at 2750 fps. Which is a 16 inch AR barrel, if I'm not mistaken.

So things to consider: is 55gr M193 going to be an issue in your area? Will 18, 20, 20+ inch barreled ARs going to be present?

Rifle level UHMWPE is very lite and offers good protection against everything but M855 green tip, M855A1, and 7N6 5.45. And is fairly heat resistant for you Texas folk. Not all UHMWPE is recommended for all environments, but rifle level plates are very light and supposed to be good in all environments. I won't bother with the reasons why unless asked. It's more typing :) But at ~3lbs a plate, it is well worth considering and not horribly expensive, IMO.

Key points: consider what armor is rated for. Also, different armor types will be good against a portion of the 5.56 world but not all of it. You can get armor good against the full spectrum of 5.56, and we can discuss that if needed, but the short version is "get lvl IV plates."

Also remember, a lot of hunting rounds blow through armor. Not 30-30, but .243 is really tough to stop. Again, if that is your threat, lvl IV has the best chance of stopping.

Also remember, an armored chest does nothing for a femoral artery hit in the leg or a dome hit in the head.

MacWa77ace

Quote from: Raptor on August 09, 2021, 12:42:52 PM
Quote from: Lettuce Pray on August 09, 2021, 12:19:24 PM
Quote from: Raptor on August 08, 2021, 10:30:58 PM
Quote from: Limon Man on August 08, 2021, 10:27:13 PM
What would be a recommended Level II soft wrap with plate pockets?  What plates are people running?
I bought these plates.
https://www.ar500armor.com/level-3-body-armor-tpads.html

That is actually a good bit cheaper than I would have thought. What do your plates weigh?

Too f'ing much :awesome:

The plates and concealable carrier together weigh about 12 lbs.

When I bought them they had 2 plates and concealable carrier on sale for $99 (+S&H). The current price is way down from the 2020 price.

That sounds like the Freeman bundle they have. 9x10 Light weight cut plates and carrier. So plates also would be lighter. AR500 has some smokin good deals but you have to get on their mailing list and hit it. And if you can combine with free shipping events even better deals.

But when you buy plates don't cheap out on getting just flat plates. Multicurve, with anti spall coatings and trauma pads are your starting options.  Weight specs would be available from any distributor's website. There are standard cuts, shooter cuts, swimmers cuts, and light weight cuts, each with a different weight.

Steel is heavy, Level III+ stops rifle rds up to .308 but not 30-06. Level IV ceramics do up to 30-06 but don't have edge to edge protection and have a short shelf life, are thicker, and are very expensive.

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Raptor

It does not weigh 12 lbs as I wrote but 21lbs. I transposed the #'s.

what I got last to keep in the car was.

QuoteMidwest Armor AR500 10x12 Level III Slick Active Shooters Kit, Black

(flat plate with the cheaper base coat) with a concealable carrier for $139 with S&H.
   
Folks you are on your own...Plan and act accordingly!

I will never claim to have all the answers. Depending upon the subject; I am also aware that I may not have all the questions much less the answers. As a result I am always willing to listen to others and work with them to arrive at the right answers to the applicable questions.

woodsghost

For a great price on level 4 plates...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/botach.com/amp/battle-steel-level-4-armor-plates/

$90 per plate for level IV plates. Ceramic face and UHMWPE backer. Very effective. 5.5 lbs each, and I weighed them, they really are 5.5 lbs each. So with carrier, they really are 12 lbs, maybe 13 lbs. But the carrier is very minimal and I'm not excited about it. My big complaints are 1) no ventilation padding so it digs into my body. If there was stand-off mesh inside or if my body was plushy I think it would be more comfortable. And on a hot day there is no ventilation, so even if I had a plushy body, I'd still have a rough time in the heat. 2) the PC straps are too big for me. It was made for bigger fellas. Probably in the 38 inch+ crowd. Stuffed with soft armor panels I think it would be a good cheap low profile rig stashed in the car.

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1018522696?pid=261224&utm_medium=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Self-Defense+-+Tactical+Vests+%26+Body+Armor&utm_content=261224&gclid=CjwKCAjwpMOIBhBAEiwAy5M6YILMe0TmHqMPldtGiEbX0MIvzJiDBZ_43va6Th_p0IEobNczLy5DghoCuwoQAvD_BwE

If I was to do it over again I would get a Condor or a AR500 plate carrier. Both are really sized for the 38 inch+ guys, but cummerbunds can be reworked to fit smaller guys. I have not got a new PC yet because I've prioritized other things, like a chicken tractor. Leaving an urban area made a lot of my priorities change.

MacWa77ace

#25
Quote from: Raptor on August 09, 2021, 04:39:44 PM
It does not weigh 12 lbs as I wrote but 21lbs. I transposed the #'s.

what I got last to keep in the car was.

QuoteMidwest Armor AR500 10x12 Level III Slick Active Shooters Kit, Black

(flat plate with the cheaper base coat) with a concealable carrier for $139 with S&H.


Ahhh, I have the AR500 11x14 shooters cut and they total 22lbs.

That Freeman bundle I mentioned before is light! But small plates 9x9.
Weight: Carrier + base-coat plates, 11.1 lbs | Carrier + build-up plates, 11.8 lbs | Trauma pads add 0.43 lbs.

https://www.ar500armor.com/ar-freeman.html


ETA: SALE! AR500 BOGO ships in 3 weeks  on Freeman Bundle  https://www.ar500armor.com/freeman-bogo.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwx8iIBhBwEiwA2quaq9lwlTIuIYcejZ-fiXcggcBgOLKajipORr3wyKZ_vN9ka_33hPtY2xoCp2EQAvD_BwE

This is not the best deal I've seen on these though, at one time they were on sale for $99 each. May not have included the trauma pads though.
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Ask me about my Fully Semi-Automatic 30-Mag clip death gun that's as heavy as 10 boxes.


RoneKiln

Quote from: MacWa77ace on August 10, 2021, 09:30:50 AM
ETA: SALE! AR500 BOGO ships in 3 weeks  on Freeman Bundle  https://www.ar500armor.com/freeman-bogo.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwx8iIBhBwEiwA2quaq9lwlTIuIYcejZ-fiXcggcBgOLKajipORr3wyKZ_vN9ka_33hPtY2xoCp2EQAvD_BwE

This is not the best deal I've seen on these though, at one time they were on sale for $99 each. May not have included the trauma pads though.

While I love 2 for 1 deals, if ya'all tear up my first set of armor, I'm just going home. I'm not sticking around and getting a second set out. And I'm telling Mom on you.

They've got a package deal on their Invictus and Freeman sets though, and you're all really tempting me to spend a few hundred bucks I shouldn't be spending right now.

https://www.ar500armor.com/high-speed-loadout.html
"Seriously the most dangerous thing you are likely to do is to put salt on a Big Mac right before you eat it and to climb into your car."
--Raptor

woodsghost

Quote from: RoneKiln on August 12, 2021, 11:52:20 PM
Quote from: MacWa77ace on August 10, 2021, 09:30:50 AM
ETA: SALE! AR500 BOGO ships in 3 weeks  on Freeman Bundle  https://www.ar500armor.com/freeman-bogo.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwx8iIBhBwEiwA2quaq9lwlTIuIYcejZ-fiXcggcBgOLKajipORr3wyKZ_vN9ka_33hPtY2xoCp2EQAvD_BwE

This is not the best deal I've seen on these though, at one time they were on sale for $99 each. May not have included the trauma pads though.

While I love 2 for 1 deals, if ya'all tear up my first set of armor, I'm just going home. I'm not sticking around and getting a second set out. And I'm telling Mom on you.

They've got a package deal on their Invictus and Freeman sets though, and you're all really tempting me to spend a few hundred bucks I shouldn't be spending right now.

https://www.ar500armor.com/high-speed-loadout.html

They specify these are Lvl III. So 5.56 out of a 20 inch barrel will get through and even M193 5.56 should get through from a 16 and maybe a 10 inch barrel (10 inch depends on range). I bet 5.45 would get through.

So if your threats are really only 30 cal rifles and 5.56 green tip from 16 inch barrels, I think you are good to go.

For a lower price (~$280) I would consider the Botach plates and either an AR500 carrier or a Condor carrier. You would have something as lite as the Freeman, with the coverage of the 10x8, with more protection.

The Freeman really excells, in my opinion, as an option to take armor to odd places.

MacWa77ace

Quote from: RonnyRonin on August 08, 2021, 02:29:12 PMFor home defense I think it makes sense to armor up if you ever hear a bump in the night; the additional time is very small and you can call it extra wake-up time if you want to justify it even more.

So I recently acquired 1 'soft' body armor lvl 3, but its got a thin steel plate in there, so not that soft. Its in my bedroom closet, but I don't think I would put that on for a bump in the night. Maybe glass breaking and voices in the house AFTER we secure ourselves in the bedroom. If we have that much time someone is effed though cause that's enough time to swap bedside pistols for the Phased Plasma Rifles with the 40 watt range.

After I got it, I hadn't even really considered it as a bump in the night gear, but I'm at least thinking about it now and may put it on in certain circumstances.

And my plates and plate carrier are on the other side of the house. So that's not happening if my security is breached like an interior bump in the night. Also my plate carrier doesn't go on fast enough for a bump in the night, and my technique for putting it on [22lbs] leave me blind and vulnerable for a few seconds as it slides overhead, both hands needed.

I haven't actually timed putting on the soft armor yet.  :-[ I need to do that. It's pretty fast though. But I'd be grabbing my bedside pistol, then closing and locking the bedroom door, then moving back to the closet, then put down the pistol, grab the vest and  and have to put down the pistol to put on the soft armor. As a thought experiment that would take a minute. Depending on where the breach occurred, I don't have that long in 60% of the scenarios I can envision.

If i wasn't going to put on the armor, I would probably not close and lock the door, I don't like to be blind and stuck like that, so I'd do my clearing drill. For real though.



It would all depend on the circumstances though.
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Optimist

I can see the use of body armor, If I lived in or near an urban area it would be higher on my priority list, especially after seeing how protests spilled out into many suburban areas a few years ago.

Since I live in a rural place it's lower on my priority list. What I've been thinking for years is that I'm going to use body armor as a "reward" for hitting and maintaining my target weight. Something like if I hit my target weight I can buy a plate carrier and some budget plates for training. If I keep at that weight for a year I can buy good plates. Two years and I can buy soft armor, or a helmet, etc.

I live in a place where .44 magnum and .300 win mag are actually fairly common, so unfortunately I think the better rated armor is important.

Of course if things suddenly got way worse than I expected I would be kicking myself, because it's not like my extra fat is going to stop bullets. There's also the chance it could be banned before I get a chance to buy it.

MacWa77ace

Quote from: Optimist on May 22, 2024, 01:20:48 PMSince I live in a rural place it's lower on my priority list. What I've been thinking for years is that I'm going to use body armor as a "reward" for hitting and maintaining my target weight. Something like if I hit my target weight I can buy a plate carrier and some budget plates for training. If I keep at that weight for a year I can buy good plates. Two years and I can buy soft armor, or a helmet, etc.

Did you know, you can wear body armor when you're hiking and it burns more calories, so will help you hit your goal. Sort of like a weighted exercise vest. [exactly like a weighted exercise vest, except it will stop bullets]

Quote from: Optimist on May 22, 2024, 01:20:48 PMI live in a place where .44 magnum and .300 win mag are actually fairly common, so unfortunately I think the better rated armor is important.

The 44 is lvl 3A, I don't think anyone has rated a 300 WM against armor, but I bet there is a YouTube of it.

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12_Gauge_Chimp

Hasn't Matt from Demolition Ranch done a few videos on body armor that's rated up to a .50 BMG?

It was either him, Scott from Kentucky Ballistics or that crazy Edwin Sarkassian dude.

Optimist

Quote from: MacWa77ace on May 22, 2024, 01:37:40 PMDid you know, you can wear body armor when you're hiking and it burns more calories, so will help you hit your goal. Sort of like a weighted exercise vest. [exactly like a weighted exercise vest, except it will stop bullets]
I've heard of people doing that, and that might be a good way for me to go.  I've been carrying more water than I'm likely to need partly for the purposes of adding a little weight.

I keep telling myself that I need to walk faster rather than add weight, but TBH I find the fast pace less fun and as soon as my mind wanders I slow down even if I'm not tired so maybe adding more weight sooner would be a better option.

MacWa77ace

Quote from: Optimist on May 22, 2024, 02:00:41 PM
Quote from: MacWa77ace on May 22, 2024, 01:37:40 PMDid you know, you can wear body armor when you're hiking and it burns more calories, so will help you hit your goal. Sort of like a weighted exercise vest. [exactly like a weighted exercise vest, except it will stop bullets]
I've heard of people doing that, and that might be a good way for me to go.  I've been carrying more water than I'm likely to need partly for the purposes of adding a little weight.

I keep telling myself that I need to walk faster rather than add weight, but TBH I find the fast pace less fun and as soon as my mind wanders I slow down even if I'm not tired so maybe adding more weight sooner would be a better option.

You would probably have to do both over time, to make gains.

Use a cadence ticker. Or music. Or time yourself from points A to B, B to C, etc, to make sure you maintain your speed. To make progress you have to constantly increase the exertion, 'cause once you plateau you won't make anymore gains. So add weight with water, that's easy to adjust, half bottle here, bottle and a half there, and add speed.

If you're trying to exercise its not supposed to be totally painless. If it is, you're doing it wrong. If you do it right, you'll feel the endorphins. And sweat and be tired after. And maybe even get sore the next day.

Example of progressive training regimen:

20lbs for a 60 minute walk of 2 miles. 2 mph

20lbs for a 45 minute walk of 2 miles. 2.66 mph

25lbs for a 60 minute walk of 2 miles. 2 mph

25lbs for a 45 minute walk of 2 miles. 2.66 mph

25lbs for a 90 minute walk of 3 miles. 2 mph

25lbs for a 70 minute walk of 3 miles 2.6 mph.

Etc.

If you don't have that much time or you're already past these examples. Use this for reference.

https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/math/speed-distance-time-calculator.php



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MacWa77ace

I don't know what i'm doing wrong, I'm on this thing for 20 minutes every day for the last 3 years. I lost 10 lbs the first two weeks then nuthin'.



:greenguy:
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Ask me about my Fully Semi-Automatic 30-Mag clip death gun that's as heavy as 10 boxes.


Optimist

Quote from: MacWa77ace on May 22, 2024, 02:26:21 PMUse a cadence ticker. Or music. Or time yourself from points A to B, B to C, etc, to make sure you maintain your speed. To make progress you have to constantly increase the exertion, 'cause once you plateau you won't make anymore gains. So add weight with water, that's easy to adjust, half bottle here, bottle and a half there, and add speed.
Switching from listening to podcasts to listening to music might actually be a good idea for trying to keep myself more focused. I've been shooting for a 3.5 MPH pace on my 2.3 mile daily walk (closer to 3 miles but I don't time the first or last bit). I use the Map My Run app which my father recommended to me which is super helpful but a little creepy feeling.

MacWa77ace

Quote from: Optimist on May 22, 2024, 03:51:50 PM
Quote from: MacWa77ace on May 22, 2024, 02:26:21 PMUse a cadence ticker. Or music. Or time yourself from points A to B, B to C, etc, to make sure you maintain your speed. To make progress you have to constantly increase the exertion, 'cause once you plateau you won't make anymore gains. So add weight with water, that's easy to adjust, half bottle here, bottle and a half there, and add speed.
Switching from listening to podcasts to listening to music might actually be a good idea for trying to keep myself more focused. I've been shooting for a 3.5 MPH pace on my 2.3 mile daily walk (closer to 3 miles but I don't time the first or last bit). I use the Map My Run app which my father recommended to me which is super helpful but a little creepy feeling.


Yeah, I was thinking you could probably use an app like Waze to gauge your walking speed. They probably make a walking speed  app specifically for walking. Waze is for driving but it has a speedometer. But I wouldn't want to be staring down at my phone while i'm out walking.

If you use music use a genre that has a beat that you can step to at your rate.
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echo83

Quote from: MacWa77ace on May 22, 2024, 04:39:26 PM
Quote from: Optimist on May 22, 2024, 03:51:50 PM
Quote from: MacWa77ace on May 22, 2024, 02:26:21 PMUse a cadence ticker. Or music. Or time yourself from points A to B, B to C, etc, to make sure you maintain your speed. To make progress you have to constantly increase the exertion, 'cause once you plateau you won't make anymore gains. So add weight with water, that's easy to adjust, half bottle here, bottle and a half there, and add speed.
Switching from listening to podcasts to listening to music might actually be a good idea for trying to keep myself more focused. I've been shooting for a 3.5 MPH pace on my 2.3 mile daily walk (closer to 3 miles but I don't time the first or last bit). I use the Map My Run app which my father recommended to me which is super helpful but a little creepy feeling.


Yeah, I was thinking you could probably use an app like Waze to gauge your walking speed. They probably make a walking speed  app specifically for walking. Waze is for driving but it has a speedometer. But I wouldn't want to be staring down at my phone while i'm out walking.

If you use music use a genre that has a beat that you can step to at your rate.
And just remember, beats per minute is important, but you have to monitor caloric intake during walks, too...

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