LOWRA or LOW-RA communication

[Dabster]

"It's a long range frequency radio that broadcasts a pretty specific wavelength that can travel really far throughout the air. So it's perfect
for communications long distance."

Anyone heard of this? I hadn't until I heard this podcast:

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-it-could-happen-here-30717896/episode/how-to-make-your-own-encrypted-141367225/

Not everyone will like the politics (or the colorful language) of the podcast producer but this radio technology sounds like something many of us could benefit from.

Thoughts?

[Z.O.R.G.]

Mesh networks have been around for a while in the .mil and HAM community.  They work well, but they're difficult to setup and work reliably unless you're a comms. expert.  I view "long range" in tens to hundreds of miles.  A hacked phone type item is likely to get you less than a mile, unless you've really good line of site.  Encrypted comms. in the US is also a no-no, unless you're LEO/FED/.mil/etc.  

I'd spend my time and money getting a HAM license and some reasonable equipment.  For <$1,000 you can get a useable comms. setup that will be good for at local to cross continent coverage.  Other local HAMs might even donate equipment to you to get on the air.  The youngest HAM in one of the local clubs (with a "General" license) is 8 years old, so you don't need to be a rocket scientist and you don't need to know Moris code anymore.  

just my 2 cents.

[MacWa77ace]

@Z.O.R.G. Mesh network. Is that the same as our SARNET in Florida, where there are a bunch of linked repeaters, so that someone in Keywest can talk to someone in Pensicola using as little as a 4 watt HT? SARNET is for emergency traffic but when there isn't any emergencies any licensed station can use it for short transmissions and duration. You're not supposed to 'hog' it up.

I've heard of ELF. Not LOWRA.

[Z.O.R.G.]

@Z.O.R.G. Mesh network. Is that the same as our SARNET in Florida, where there are a bunch of linked repeaters, so that someone in Keywest can talk to someone in Pensicola using as little as a 4 watt HT? SARNET is for emergency traffic but when there isn't any emergencies any licensed station can use it for short transmissions and duration. You're not supposed to 'hog' it up.

I've heard of ELF. Not LOWRA.

It's similar, but not exactly the same.  On a linked repeater system each repeater is connected to the system either thru a direct RF link or an internet link.  When you key up 1, you key all of them at the same time.  The repeaters are usually always analog and usually only support voice. 

A mesh network is more like the internet.  Some radios are connected to others, but not necessary all radios in the network.  Transmissions between radios is always digital, and audio transmissions work like a VOIP phone.  Data is transferred similar to how it's done on the internet and packets (data or digitized voice) are forwarded between radios.  Packet data rate is fast enough that you can carry on a normal voice conversation without noticing the digital voice packets are bouncing between radios.  

You cannot view this attachment. 
From Wiki....

Of the 6 radios shown none of them can see the whole network, but all of them can communicate by relaying data thru another.  Many of mesh networks are based on standard internet protocols and each radio acts like a router.  To make this network work correctly, you need to understand both radios and computer network routings.  

[wolf_from_wv]

[wolf_from_wv]

[wolf_from_wv]

off grid communications

will bring up even more results on youtube.

[MacWa77ace]

@Z.O.R.G. Mesh network. Is that the same as our SARNET in Florida, where there are a bunch of linked repeaters, so that someone in Keywest can talk to someone in Pensicola using as little as a 4 watt HT? SARNET is for emergency traffic but when there isn't any emergencies any licensed station can use it for short transmissions and duration. You're not supposed to 'hog' it up.

I've heard of ELF. Not LOWRA.

It's similar, but not exactly the same.  On a linked repeater system each repeater is connected to the system either thru a direct RF link or an internet link.  When you key up 1, you key all of them at the same time.  The repeaters are usually always analog and usually only support voice. 

A mesh network is more like the internet.  Some radios are connected to others, but not necessary all radios in the network.  Transmissions between radios is always digital, and audio transmissions work like a VOIP phone.  Data is transferred similar to how it's done on the internet and packets (data or digitized voice) are forwarded between radios.  Packet data rate is fast enough that you can carry on a normal voice conversation without noticing the digital voice packets are bouncing between radios. 

You cannot view this attachment.
From Wiki....

Of the 6 radios shown none of them can see the whole network, but all of them can communicate by relaying data thru another.  Many of mesh networks are based on standard internet protocols and each radio acts like a router.  To make this network work correctly, you need to understand both radios and computer network routings. 

Ok, i think I've got it. IIRC you can dial up one particular radio on that 6 radio example when each radio has its own identifier [telephone#]?

Funny, I recently went to my inlaws for Christmas. They always have a list of stuff [chores] for me to do when I get there. One was to set up a mesh network for their WIFI. That is really a cool system.
One Login and you can move all around the house without getting a low connection. 

Expensive though. But I want one.

I don't have that in my house, I have the main and an extender, which periodically I'm on the wrong unit and have to force the switch to the other one. 

[Z.O.R.G.]

After watching the videos and reviewing the Lilygo T-Echo specs. I need to think about this.  I'm seeing some advantages and disadvantages of using these.  

[Z.O.R.G.]

After thinking about these for a few days, I believe LoRa could be a supplement to an ECOM plan but shouldn't be a primary method.  Here are my main reasons for believing this.   

"Long Range" is relative to standard Wi-Fi.  The LoRa web site says up to 3 miles urban and 10 miles rural.  Midland FRS "blister pack" radios advertise "up to 20+ miles" YMMV.  

The hardest part about setting up a mesh network that works is getting all the settings right.  You normally need a different programming file for each radio because they need unique addresses (usually an IP address).  Getting the frequency right (and not fat fingering it) can abe a problem too.  Meshtastic appears to solve this by using a factory programmed address (the MAC) and using a single frequency per country/region.  The MAC is fixed and should never be changed.  Digging into the description of the HW under the hood - the frequency should be able to be changed, but doesn't appear to be an option in Meshtastic SW.  So....

• Per the spec. LoRa data rates are only 0.3 to 50 kbs.  That less than dial-up, so you're only sending text messages.  Each device chews up this with overhead, so the more devices the smaller the data pipe.  This would also include other nodes not on your network.
• Unless you modify the SW (it's open source) everyone knows what frequency you're on.  This means it's easy for a bad guy to know if other LoRa devices are in the area.  Even if they can't read your comms, they could jam or find you.
• When a mesh device gets turned on, it typically transmits a "I'm here, who's out there?" message.  Other devices typically reply with their ID and usually some other information.  In the first video it showed distance from one node to all the others.  All your nodes might end up sending their GPS coordinates to an "outside" node without you knowing it thru the default (Primary) channel if it's not disabled.  Bad guys would love this.

They would be great for sending quick, non-time sensitive message like "I'll be at the BOL by noon" or "We're all OK." If going to a BOL, I'd shut the system down and switch to regular radio coms once everyone was there.  

I wouldn't use them for tactical messages or on the move.  Eyes on your phone are not providing situational awareness.  You can talk on a Baofeng while driving and keep your eyes on events around you.  

They do seem pretty cool, and I might pick up a few to see what can be done with them.  If anyone has tried them, I'd be interested in their opinion.  

[Z.O.R.G.]

Two of the hams in my local club have been experimenting with LoRa radios and presented their results recently.  I thought about this thread and thought I'd report their findings.

First, these are not "normal" hams, they're both engineers and have designed their own circuit boards and write their own code (software) for some of their gear.  For their experimenting they used development boards, wrote their own code and added additional circuit boards to expand their capabilities

Range results were very good - with a solid line of sight.  They live 10+ miles from each other and can achieve reliable communications - with beam (high gain) antennas and a direct line of sight.

Data results were low, on the order of several kilo bytes/sec.  Similar to the early days of dialup modems.  You can text with this, but I wouldn't consider sending a picture from a modern cell phone.  Voice communications is not possible at this data rate.  What they are using them for is remote control of external antenna switches and other equipment.  Some promising examples are:

• Running a single feedline to a switchbox on a tower and then switching between multiple antennas.
• Getting data back from a SWR meter placed close to the feed point of an antenna.
• Switching in and out antennas on a phased antenna system.
• Reporting temperature from a remote sensor.
• Low bandwidth text communications.

Over-all my impression is that they have many uses, but a back-up communication system for disaster communications is not something that would be my first choice.

 If you need/want to text, you can always use one of the digital mode radios (like DMR) that support text messages.  Those radios typically also support reception outside the ham bands, so you can program things like NOAA weather radio into them.  My DJ-MD5X DMR handheld supports 4,000 memories and I've programmed every repeater in my state, NOAA weather, all the ham simplex frequencies, all the GMRS (receive only) frequencies and still haven't used even half the memories.  It costs more than a LoRa radio, but as usual with gear - you get what you pay for.