War in Ukraine

Started by Moab, February 04, 2022, 09:48:32 PM

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Moab

Interesting read from inside Ukraine. Alot of prepping going on.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/a-moment-of-excruciating-anticipation-in-kyiv
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

Zed hunter

Colin Nior posted a video about the Ukrainian army training civilians in urban warfare tactics.

majorhavoc

#2
I was thinking yesterday that the Second World War was preceeded by a large, aggressive country annexing territory in a much weaker country (the Sudeteland in Czechoslovakia).  Followed by the invasion of a large eastern European country, namely Poland. 

Today, we have Russia, having annexed Crimea, looking like it's about to to invade an even larger eastern European country, namely Ukraine.

Land wars in Europe make me very nervous. 
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Raptor

Land wars in Europe should make everyone nervous. Putin does want to reunite the old USSR's land borders. That said I believe Putin is a very skilled player and sees a land war as counterproductive.

I am not saying he will not engage in combat. However unlike many leaders he has fought a similar  war in.Chechnya and knows the political cost both inside and outside of Russia. He is IMO smarter now as a result.

If this happens (and quite honestly with all back and forth i am wondering if this is more of a "Wag the dog" situation) I am thinking this is more likely to be an "anschlutz" type situation as opposed to a full blown 1990's style Afgan or 1939 Polish invasion.

Who knows...certainly not me...only time will tell.

For what it is worth in the 1980s when NATO was at its peak power I gave Europe a 50/50 shot of holding out for 2 weeks. Today I put that percentage at about .1% and a better than 90% that any resistance would be nominal as long as no nukes are used.

I do not believe France would use nukes to repel a land invasion of France if there were no nukes used first. That leaves Germany and Poland relying upon NATO land forces during the first few hours of the conflict...note, I intentionally use hours as my unit of measure. That is IMO an accurate measure of the time involved.

The only real resistance to such a land incursion is the distance involved and natural obstacles in the path of the incursion. That and the inevitable mistakes an advancing army makes in fog of war.

As for the people in the path; look at Afganistan last year. That is the likely outcome.
Folks you are on your own...Plan and act accordingly!

I will never claim to have all the answers. Depending upon the subject; I am also aware that I may not have all the questions much less the answers. As a result I am always willing to listen to others and work with them to arrive at the right answers to the applicable questions.

Moab


https://youtu.be/GkSsC6aCFbU

The one guy comments that he was taught to throw a grenade when a boy in Soviet Union. What are we teaching our kids? How to make a tiktok video?

I remember my father signing me up for a 3 day course on firearms and firearm safety. I had long since learned these skills. But it was necessary to receive a hunting license. I learned to resoect firearms. Now kids shoot each other. With no respect for anything.

We so value education in our society. But not when it comes to the really important things. How many young lives would be saved. With simple firearm safety training.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

Ever (Zombiepreparation)

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 12, 2022, 07:30:44 AM
I was thinking yesterday that the Second World War was preceeded by a large, aggressive country annexing territory in a much weaker country (the Sudeteland in Czechoslovakia).  Followed by the invasion of a large eastern European country, namely Poland. 

Today, we have Russia, having annexed Crimea, looking like it's about to to invade an even larger eastern European country, namely Ukraine.

Land wars in Europe make me very nervous.
My friend in one of the other northern countries there is expressing their growing fear over this. They remember one of their own wars began with the ruse they had fired on Russia. They remember the human devastation it wrought and the emotional carryover to this day.

And, yes, I'm old enough to remember the last time we faced-off with Russia. Harrowing. So I'm nervous too.

Mister_Dark

The really awesome part is that Washington has given Putin a green light, wait no we will respond vigorously, no we are pulling our people out, no what we really meant was that we will supply Ukraine with lots of stuff, but no troops.  Except for maybe a couple of SOCOM guys. But no, we are only going to send a strongly worded letter.  And lots of Global Hawks and E-3's and Rivet Joints. But we are closing our embassy last man out turn off the lights thanks. But lets fly B-52's with standoff munitions right up to the Bosporus strait every hour for the next few days.  You know. To send a message.

It's almost like the guys inside the beltway are trying to start a War.     
It could be the purpose of my life is merely to serve as a warning to others.

Moab

A history lesson in 8 minutes. Worth the watch. I think they are trying to start a war too.


https://youtu.be/pDjKuUTb2Bc
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

Johan

Well, I'm  real happy I don't  live in Ukraine right now...
My guess is that there will be an invasion especially since Russia says they are withdrawing but keep adding men and resources  :gonk:, but it could also be scare tactics or a Maskirovka...
Firepower...
-Is One Bullet that Hits!!!

Raptor

One thing to keep in mind. The ongoing issue with Russia & Ukraine is nothing new.

Annexation by Catherine the Great & subsequent revolts in Crimea. (1777-82 ?) 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Empire

The 1932-33 Famine in Ukraine
https://www.history.com/news/ukrainian-famine-stalin

Which Lead to Some Welcoming Nazi as Liberators in WW-2
(you know you are f'ed if the Einsatzgruppen appear to be saviors)
https://www.historynet.com/a-warm-welcome-turns-cold-in-nazi-occupied-ukraine.htm

A little Soviet Power plant booboo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster


Independence from the USSR in 1991.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Independence_of_Ukraine

2009 Pipeline disputes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_gas_disputes

Crimea Annexation in 2014
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation

Regardless of what happens in 2022 this is not going to go away.
Folks you are on your own...Plan and act accordingly!

I will never claim to have all the answers. Depending upon the subject; I am also aware that I may not have all the questions much less the answers. As a result I am always willing to listen to others and work with them to arrive at the right answers to the applicable questions.

flybynight

 In remarks delivered from the White House on Friday, President Biden said he was certain that Russian President Vladimir Putin would invade Ukraine, thus plunging Europe into war.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-im-convinced-putin-plans-to-invade-ukraine-225250690.html



Within the next few days, this topic will more than likely  have to be moved to DICE. ( If a Russian cyber attack hasn't taken down the electric grid ) I'm reminded of the soup thread on the old boards
"Hey idiot, you should feel your pulse, not see it."  Echo 83

Moab

Quote from: flybynight on February 18, 2022, 06:28:32 PM
In remarks delivered from the White House on Friday, President Biden said he was certain that Russian President Vladimir Putin would invade Ukraine, thus plunging Europe into war.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-im-convinced-putin-plans-to-invade-ukraine-225250690.html



Within the next few days, this topic will more than likely  have to be moved to DICE. ( If a Russian cyber attack hasn't taken down the electric grid ) I'm reminded of the soup thread on the old boards

Whats DICE?
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

Moab

My first reaction was which multinational arms conglomerates are behind this? Then I thought what makes Russia think they can win this?
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

flybynight

DICE = Disasters In Current Events

For what it's worth. Here is a live stream traffic cam in Kyiv.
If you see explosions or the feed goes off. It's probably started.


https://youtu.be/RMhWl3yPdDw
"Hey idiot, you should feel your pulse, not see it."  Echo 83

flybynight


As the lumbering threat of a Russian invasion of Ukraine continues unabated, the Russian military claimed that five so-called "saboteurs" were assassinated Monday after crossing into Russia from Ukraine.




https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-military-claims-ukrainian-attackers-143126993.html
"Hey idiot, you should feel your pulse, not see it."  Echo 83

majorhavoc

A post-apocalyptic tale of love, loss and redemption. And zombies!
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Mr. E. Monkey

Quote from: majorhavoc on February 21, 2022, 10:14:38 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/russia-ukraine-putin-has-list-of-ukrainians-to-be-killed-or-sent-to-camps-u-s-warns


QuoteIn a fiery speech earlier Monday, Putin blasted Kyiv's growing security ties with the West, and in lengthy remarks about the history of the USSR and the formation of the Ukrainian Socialist Soviet Republic, appeared to cast doubt on Ukraine's right to self-determination.
"Ukraine has never had traditions of its own statehood," he said, calling the eastern part of the country "ancient Russian lands."



Quote from: SMoAF'Tis better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness.
Quote from: BeowolfDisasters are terrifying, but people are stupid.
Quote from: wee drop o' bushTHE EVIL MONKEY HAS WON THE INTERNETS!  :lol:

flybynight

"Hey idiot, you should feel your pulse, not see it."  Echo 83

RickOShea

Explosions can be heard by the various reporters stationed in Kiev.



majorhavoc

So many people are going to die in the coming hours and days.  Many of them innocents.   :-[

I have no words ...
A post-apocalyptic tale of love, loss and redemption. And zombies!
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