Adventures in Car buying in 2021

[Moab]

How about the difference between Kelley Blue Book and Edmunds used car pricing estimates?!


Everytime ive looked for a used car in the last few years i have used actual market prices. Like CL, Offerup and Facebook Marketplace. Then also ran edmunds and kbb for private party price estimates.


KBB is always WAY higher. I just ran a used Toyota Rav4 by license plate. So it has every option and mileage that the actual car has. And the price difference is like 2-3k more on KBB.


The problem is Edmunds is always right on the same price as what im seeing in the actual market. But KBB is out of their mind. This Toyota im looking at is worth maybe $9500. But KBB lists it at almost $12000. Which is what this private seller is asking.


The car wont sell for 12k. As its been on CL for two weeks. And still hasnt sold.


I hate when i find the car i want. But sellers have not researched prices enough to realize their own price is outto lunch.


In the meantime we wait and see if the seller comes down.

[RoneKiln]

I just picked up a used Dodge Dart in good shape for about $2k under KBB's estimated value--the dealer was having a hell of a time trying to sell a car with a manual transmission...

I think like less than 4% of cars are manual now. Crazy. But ya. You can get used manual hondas for cheap too.

Weird. In my area a manual transmission is a selling point that gets advertised. Especially on Honda Civics and the more popular 4x4 trucks and jeeps.

I wonder if manuals are more popular in areas with mountainous terrain or in snow country.

When I worked in Sweden automatics seemed to be rare. We had a work truck that was automatic and one of my crew couldn't figure out how to drive it. I had a helluva time figuring out why he kept asking about shifting (we were all a little sleep deprived). You should have seen his excitement when he finally understood what an automatic transmission is. There was quickly a small crowd of Scandinavians wanting to see the car that automatically shifts. About half the Swedes and Norwegians had never seen one.

Or they were all messing with me and I was juggling too much to catch on.

[Moab]

I just picked up a used Dodge Dart in good shape for about $2k under KBB's estimated value--the dealer was having a hell of a time trying to sell a car with a manual transmission...

I think like less than 4% of cars are manual now. Crazy. But ya. You can get used manual hondas for cheap too.

Weird. In my area a manual transmission is a selling point that gets advertised. Especially on Honda Civics and the more popular 4x4 trucks and jeeps.

I wonder if manuals are more popular in areas with mountainous terrain or in snow country.

When I worked in Sweden automatics seemed to be rare. We had a work truck that was automatic and one of my crew couldn't figure out how to drive it. I had a helluva time figuring out why he kept asking about shifting (we were all a little sleep deprived). You should have seen his excitement when he finally understood what an automatic transmission is. There was quickly a small crowd of Scandinavians wanting to see the car that automatically shifts. About half the Swedes and Norwegians had never seen one.

Or they were all messing with me and I was juggling too much to catch on.

This article puts manual transmission cars at only 2%.

https://www.rd.com/article/why-americans-drive-automatic/

Not sure if that includes trucks. But its a blistering low number of vehicles being produced today with a manual.

[Mr. E. Monkey]

Weird. In my area a manual transmission is a selling point that gets advertised. Especially on Honda Civics and the more popular 4x4 trucks and jeeps.

I wonder if manuals are more popular in areas with mountainous terrain or in snow country.

When I worked in Sweden automatics seemed to be rare. We had a work truck that was automatic and one of my crew couldn't figure out how to drive it. I had a helluva time figuring out why he kept asking about shifting (we were all a little sleep deprived). You should have seen his excitement when he finally understood what an automatic transmission is. There was quickly a small crowd of Scandinavians wanting to see the car that automatically shifts. About half the Swedes and Norwegians had never seen one.

Or they were all messing with me and I was juggling too much to catch on.

I think that may be the case--finding something with true 4x4 is a lot less common here than I'm used to, too.  Heck, even AWD isn't all that common here.  Maybe I shouldn't have been so surprised by that, considering we don't really have much for mountains down here, and usually don't get much snow.  Still, I would've figured folks might want it for hunting season, or mudding, or something.


All that being said, as far as snow, I think I prefer an automatic transmission.  I understand how a manual has some advantages, but if road conditions are that bad, I like not having to take a hand off the wheel to shift gears.  Then again, I haven't driven a manual transmission in the snow in about 16-17 years, I think.

This article puts manual transmission cars at only 2%.

https://www.rd.com/article/why-americans-drive-automatic/

Not sure if that includes trucks. But its a blistering low number of vehicles being produced today with a manual.

That's kinda crazy.  I mean, it does make sense, but it's weird going from the manual being called a "standard" transmission, to barely being offered as an option anymore.  Is that my inner Luddite peeking out a little?   


From the article:

In addition, driving a car with manual transmission forces people to be more engaged with their car and what's going on around them.

Maybe that's why people don't seem to like them?   
But seriously, with the right car, that just makes it more fun, to me.

[Johan]

I just picked up a used Dodge Dart in good shape for about $2k under KBB's estimated value--the dealer was having a hell of a time trying to sell a car with a manual transmission...

I think like less than 4% of cars are manual now. Crazy. But ya. You can get used manual hondas for cheap too.

Weird. In my area a manual transmission is a selling point that gets advertised. Especially on Honda Civics and the more popular 4x4 trucks and jeeps.

I wonder if manuals are more popular in areas with mountainous terrain or in snow country.

When I worked in Sweden automatics seemed to be rare. We had a work truck that was automatic and one of my crew couldn't figure out how to drive it. I had a helluva time figuring out why he kept asking about shifting (we were all a little sleep deprived). You should have seen his excitement when he finally understood what an automatic transmission is. There was quickly a small crowd of Scandinavians wanting to see the car that automatically shifts. About half the Swedes and Norwegians had never seen one.

Or they were all messing with me and I was juggling too much to catch on.

They may have been pulling your leg just a little bit, (although the guy  not knowing  how to drive an automatic may well have been honest, (I didn't  have a problem figuring it out theoretically the first time I drove an automatic, but I still managed to stomp on the break, because it's pretty much a reflex to push down the clutch.. Luckily I didn't have any car behind me..  😬To this day whenever I have to drive an automatic I fold away my left leg as far from the pedals as possible)
Nowadays automatics are much more common than they used to be but I don't  know if they have surpassed stickshifts in sales over here.

[Mr. E. Monkey]

(I didn't  have a problem figuring it out theoretically the first time I drove an automatic, but I still managed to stomp on the break, because it's pretty much a reflex to push down the clutch.. Luckily I didn't have any car behind me..  😬To this day whenever I have to drive an automatic I fold away my left leg as far from the pedals as possible)

Funny that you mention that...


The old habits of driving a manual transmission came back pretty quickly for me.  My truck is an automatic, but I have never had that problem with it.  Driving my wife's car, on the other hand, I keep finding myself reaching for the clutch with my left foot.  It doesn't have one, of course, because she only drives an automatic.


I've only ever used a manual transmission in small cars, never in trucks, so I guess my brain automatically (see what I did there?  ) turns off the "clutch reflex" in trucks, but it kicks in now, when I'm in a little car.  Or maybe my brain just doesn't work right.  That is a distinct possibility too.   

[CG]

The Nissan lot was pretty empty.

VW/Mazda had what looked deceptively like a decent number of cars available, but they were all squished into a few areas because they're doing construction.

Ended up buying a bigger SUV (used) that can pull our camper from Mercedes-Benz (not an M-B, they just had it as a trade-in).  Price was good, trade-in values were decent, probably helped that we were trading in 2 vehicles on 1.  They tried giving us generic numbers at 7% interest, $3-5k down, and told us that all of their lenders were going to require the $3-5k down regardless of the interest rate.  Dude, don't even bother running our credit if that's the case.  Sent everything over to the credit union first thing Monday morning, 2.49%, nothing down.  Hubby's taking our finance guy cake on Friday for his birthday. 

Now I have to figure out what all I can keep in there without triggering my hubby's clean freak streak...

[Raptor]

A 2.49% rate @ zero down is a great rate! Good move.

If you are buying a car be sure to shop around for the best rates.

Sites like bankrate.com have a list of lenders and rates.

https://www.bankrate.com/loans/auto-loans/rates/

[Raptor]

I just spoke to a friend who is buying (or trying to buy) a new car. He is a "high end buyer" and this is his wife's daily driver. He told me about going to 2 dealerships. The first is a Lexus dealership owned by his friend. The dealer had zero (as in nothing) new cars. Just used cars.

He had a test drive in a couple of the dealer loaner cars and the sole car on the show room floor was a used 2019 Lexus LS. There were used cars on the lot but not many.

He also went to a Genesis dealer and had a similar experience.

He decided to buy a Lexus RX SUV. The dealer said that he will search his allocation and let him know when one was available but he would have to take what was available unless a special order was placed. If he ordered one he could expect to get it around September 2022.

The Genesis dealer said he had one vehicle coming in this week. Not one of the type that my friend wanted but rather one vehicle that was arriving. Just one.

Cars, at least in my AO, are in tight supply.   

[Mr. E. Monkey]

Wow!

That is crazy.

[SCBrian]

Neighbor is moving to Florida and selling one of his cars (They have 3 for 2 people).  I'm torn.  Really torn. 
I may run by the parts house and talk them up on availability...
1990 Nissan Maxima - Wants $3500.   (Will prob take 2500ish)
95k original miles on it.  He's the second owner - first was his mother.  Was mostly garage kept and in good condition...
Parts availability on the car may be the determining factor for me...

[Raptor]

Neighbor is moving to Florida and selling one of his cars (They have 3 for 2 people).  I'm torn.  Really torn. 
I may run by the parts house and talk them up on availability...
1990 Nissan Maxima - Wants $3500.   (Will prob take 2500ish)
95k original miles on it.  He's the second owner - first was his mother.  Was mostly garage kept and in good condition...
Parts availability on the car may be the determining factor for me...

As long as it runs, the transmission shifts and AC works and you can get it for $3,000 or less buy it and drive for a little while. Then list it on CL or a similar local site for $3,999 and  you will likely still get more than the $3,000.

Since it is over 20 years old and less than 100,000 miles an extra year of use and an extra 12,000 miles will have little impact on the value as long as it looks nice and runs.
https://cars.oodle.com/1990-nissan-maxima/for-sale/

[PistolPete]

My brother needed to get a new car and was after a Subaru.  The local dealers are offering "put down a deposit now and we will call you when we get something and you can decide if you want it or not".  Meanwhile, the average car payment in the US went up to $636 in 2021.  That's nuts.
https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/average-monthly-car-payment-for-new-car-636-dollars.html

My sweetie pre-ordered a Bronco 18 months ago and finally got a build date.  What was once looking like it was going to be pretty expensive is now looking much more reasonable as prices have gone up everywhere, but her price is locked in.  She sold her car a couple weeks ago in preparation and got $26k for a car she paid $28k 2.5 years ago. 

The market is nuts and doesn't seem to be letting up.  Harley is now listing a $900 "logistics surcharge" on new bikes, in addition to freight and setup charges.  The out the door price on one of their bikes is now $2,500 over advertised sticker price at most dealers.  Such an interesting moment in time.

[Raptor]

That's nuts.
https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/average-monthly-car-payment-for-new-car-636-dollars.html

Agreed!
A couple of things going on here. The first is the obvious price increase.

But the other thing is this.

relatively low interest rates (a fall from 4.4% in Q3 2021 to 4.1% in Q4)

The interest rate is less than the inflation rate. This is one instance where fixed rate consumer debt can make sense (within limits obviously). They are buying a tangible asset for a long term fixed rate that is likely to be less than the rate of inflation over the loan term. They are buying a tangible asset and paying devalued $$$. Yes the new car will depreciate (a lot initially) but with inflation running ~7-10%+/- that depreciation will likely be offset to some extent by the inflation and the current value of the payments will also decline as inflation rips through the economy.   

I am not saying a new car is hedge against inflation.
What I am saying is that if you need to buy a car and can get debt on it at ~4% or lower; finance every single dollar you can and put as little cash down as possible. Which BTW is likely what is also happening here which would drive up the payment amount stat.