The best places to ride out the apocalypse

Started by PistolPete, August 02, 2021, 09:25:09 AM

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Moab

Quote from: PistolPete on August 02, 2021, 03:39:28 PM
My thoughts on the whole "staying at home" approach-  I'm really torn. 

I agree that the fall isn't going to look like Mad Max, it's going to look a lot more like Venezuela, I imagine.  Slowly it will be harder and harder for a fair portion of the population to cover rent and food.  Then it will be harder for anyone to afford food, simply because it will be harder find.  People will become tribal, and those on the edges won't do nearly as well.

If that seems inevitable, at least in the US, one could have a much higher quality of life in another country.  What countries are those exactly?  Well, certainly not ones who are the most authoritarian in the post-covid world.  China, of course, but also Canada, Ireland, the UK, Australia and New Zealand have certainly led the world when it comes to authoritarian mandates in response to covid.  Since the virus is now endemic, and predicted to be in general circulation for 20-30 years, choosing a country that is sending soldiers door to door using a virus as an excuse probably isn't the right choice for me.

The real question I have is whether the US is on that path or not.  We regularly see national guard deployed for civil disturbances in recent years, I wouldn't be surprised to see them deployed to promote a CDC final solution to covid.  A less authoritarian country has a lot of allure right now.  Czech Republic, Sweden, Nicaragua, Mexico all have significant communities of US ex-pats and some of them are pretty affordable.  There are even a couple outfits building communities in central America designed for English speaking people, and purchase price includes assistance getting dual citizenship.

So all year I have been asking the question- "Is it better to have a BOL nearby in the Ozarks or one in Belize".  Which way seems preferable vacillates based on the news of the week.  The US really seems to be headed down an ugly path and I'm really weary of paying so much in taxes to fund so much immoral behavior by the US government.  Having to find a new job in another country is less daunting for me, since as a tech worker I am pretty portable.  But leaving people behind to suffer under a failing economy while I thrive comes with a mental cost, for sure.

Tell me more about communities in Czech? My sons gfs family has a home there. Just curious.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

Moab

Quote from: Raptor on August 03, 2021, 10:12:01 AM
Do some hard diligence on Belize including time in country. The reality of the place outside of the tourist spots is a bit different than some ex-pat blogs suggest. Now it may have changed in the last 5 years so YMMV



Ive spent time in Belize. And i agree completely. In a total breakdown i dont see expats fairing well.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

Moab

Quote from: boskone on August 08, 2021, 01:38:31 AM
I think any bugout lair that can't be reached on one tank of gas is, for most people, a waste of resources.  One that'll eventually be close is, of course, a special case.

A rich person can probably keep a plane on standby, and someone with sailing skills and a readied boat could get somewhere.  But most of us?  We have at best a few hours to get somewhere and settle in.  The chance of most of the lower 48 being able to reach Alaska, much less somewhere like Belize or New Zealand is close enough to zero as to make no difference.

The best bet is to be somewhere we can make friends.  The only reason I wouldn't consider this a good location is because we're right along an arterial path from Houston; I remember this entire area of the state being basically locked down last time Houston evacuated.

Ideally, I'll have a place a bit off the beaten path.  Prior to that, I have a place a couple hours' north I could probably get to (or 3-4 days' walk, if it came to it).  With more warning, all the way out in Abilene; if any group could come to a reasonable degree of self-sufficiency, it'd be the people around the family farm...and we've been friends with most them for literally decades.  In a couple cases, more than a century.

If you havent already established a homestead in Alaska. Thats out. I agree. Even if you could sale up the coast. Its a longshot. Not to mention needing friendlies to help establish you. Now if you had a big boat and family there. Maybe. But not a good plan.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

Ghost

Quote from: boskone on August 08, 2021, 01:38:31 AM
I think any bugout lair that can't be reached on one tank of gas is, for most people, a waste of resources.
This.

The further one has to go the less likely you're going to get there. Add the secondary factors of gridlock due to so many abandoned, broken down cars on the highways? In any PAW scenario gas is going to become non-existent really, really quick. Once that's gone? 1800s America in terms of travel for a lot of folks.

In my AO my bug out lair 21 miles away. not idea for its location but right on Lake Ontario and far enough away from major cities. Downside is a highway fairly near by, still benefits outweigh the downsides.

NapalmMan67

Quote from: Mr. E. Monkey on August 02, 2021, 12:00:47 PM
It's an interesting article.  I disagree with it on a few points.

1.  If a large number of people think that those locations are the best places to be, then that's exactly where I don't want to be.  Besides, Australia gave us Mad Max.  I don't have assless chaps, so I'm going to have to pass on that, just on principle.  ;)

2.  It seems odd that on one hand, they state that "(T)he globe-spanning, energy-intensive industrial civilisation that characterises the modern era represents an anomalous situation when it is considered against the majority of human history," yet the very first line in their abstract states that "(H)uman civilisation has undergone a continuous trajectory of rising sociopolitical complexity since its inception."  In other words, our current complexity is not an anomaly, but rather a logical step in the direction that human civilization has been heading practically since day 1.

3.  In the discussion on the actual study here, they note that:
QuoteAlongside agriculture, access to domestic sources of energy is required to support the continuation of fundamental societal functions and therefore support the formation of 'nodes of persisting complexity'. For example, renewable electricity generation capacity could permit the ongoing operation of crucial infrastructure (e.g., communications networks, pumping and treatment of water for irrigation and supply and manufacturing capacity) that would be necessary to support key capabilities.
It is noted that highly complex technological systems such as power grids are reliant on technical knowledge and physical components, the provision of which is at least in part via highly specialised manufacturing and globalised supply chains (which is a key vulnerability [76]). In the event of a failure of these systems at global scale due to a 'de-complexification' event, the viability of the ongoing operation of large electrical systems exploiting renewable energy systems or the development new sources (e.g., drilling new deep hydrothermal wells) could potentially be in doubt. For the purposes of this analysis, it is assumed that grids could be maintained at some level of functionality through domestic manufacturing capacity. We also assume that other import dependencies of domestic industries including fertilizer or farm machinery can be discounted by assuming that a sustainable intensification of agriculture would be adopted in the event of a de-complexification event, or substitutions of key resources would be possible.
I think those assumptions may prove faulty in any collapse, much less in a more isolated, lower-population area, such as they have suggested. 

I don't believe chaps are made any other way except "assless"...  otherwise they'd be called pants/chinos/long shorts/dungarees/britches/trousers etc.    :icon_crazy:


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Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc-  Not just pretty words.

Mr. E. Monkey

Quote from: NapalmMan67 on April 04, 2022, 03:16:53 PM
I don't believe chaps are made any other way except "assless"...  otherwise they'd be called pants/chinos/long shorts/dungarees/britches/trousers etc.    :icon_crazy:


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You know, I think we had that discussion over on the old forum, years back, and you are, of course, correct.  I was curious if anybody was going to comment on that, and I'm glad you did. 




Besides, everybody knows the Zardoz style is much classier. :greenguy:
Quote from: SMoAF'Tis better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness.
Quote from: BeowolfDisasters are terrifying, but people are stupid.
Quote from: wee drop o' bushTHE EVIL MONKEY HAS WON THE INTERNETS!  :lol:

flybynight

Have I mentioned  "DOST NAUGHT BUGGETH OUTE TO LOCATION WHERE'TH ONE DOST NAUGHT HAVETH ESTABLISHED FAMILY , FORE CURSED SHALL BE 'THOTH OUTSIDER  AND BANE SHALL BE YOUR SHORTEND LIFE. AND ALL WHO ACCOMPANYTH THEE THERE "  ( yea I think I have once or hundred times). Also might not want to bug to a country that restricts private ownership of firearms.  Unless you have mad Bruce Lee skills
"Hey idiot, you should feel your pulse, not see it."  Echo 83

Moab

Quote from: Mr. E. Monkey on April 04, 2022, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: NapalmMan67 on April 04, 2022, 03:16:53 PM
I don't believe chaps are made any other way except "assless"...  otherwise they'd be called pants/chinos/long shorts/dungarees/britches/trousers etc.    :icon_crazy:


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You know, I think we had that discussion over on the old forum, years back, and you are, of course, correct.  I was curious if anybody was going to comment on that, and I'm glad you did. 




Besides, everybody knows the Zardoz style is much classier. :greenguy:

Someones sigline mentioned that. I can see his face. But i dont remember his name. He wore a hat in his profile pic. And always talked about using an alice pack.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

Crosscut

Property bordering a large tract of forested state or federal land, preferably near a lake, stream, or river.  I like a colder climate, not bitterly so, but that's what I'm used to.  Less people, and few would chose to migrate to a colder climate in the PAW if given a choice I'd think, the refugee migration would likely be towards more temperate areas.  In the winter months without snowplows keeping the roads open it'll be very isolated.  Shorter growing season but offset by having public land for foraging and wildlife, plus wood for fuel, and free in terms of not having to maintain or pay taxes on it now but available for your use without infringing/trespassing on someone else's property both now and in a PAW.  Think hunting cottage with a wood stove and private well, within a couple hundred miles from your home.  Weekend retreat now that you can improve upon with little self-sufficiency upgrades over time while enjoying the outdoors, and a BOL if needed later. 

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