Quote from: Ghost on July 06, 2022, 11:50:43 AMNext up is reevaluating the load out.

Next up are some pictures, surely.

Quote from: tirls on July 06, 2022, 12:57:05 PM

Quote from: Ghost on July 06, 2022, 11:50:43 AMNext up is reevaluating the load out.

Next up are some pictures, surely.

Took some photos of the ruck and I'll try to get them uploaded tonight.

Also got out again on a hike with the pack last night. Covered 1 mile every 20 minutes for 4.5 total at a moderate pace. Shooting for Sunday for the next hike increasing to five miles total.

3 mph is a respectable average speed for hiking.

I am looking forward to your re-evaluation as well. I can go hiking for two weeks with 7 pounds but as soon as I try to pack a BOB I´m up to 20.

Quote from: tirls on July 07, 2022, 02:11:42 PM3 mph is a respectable average speed for hiking.

Yeah, my Dr. told me that years ago.  But I say everyone has their own pace, because when I set my treadmill to 3mph, it's uncomfortable for a workout.  My pace has always been slower than most others I've been around, 2-2.3mph is comfortable for me.  I always took up the rear in Boy Scouts when we went on hikes...  and still do 45 years later.

As discussed, the revamped pack that is forming the basis for the other three:






Couple of notes:
Pack #1 (mine- 100% complete)

• The Hultafors axe is perfect, love that thing, well worth the price, but not where I intent to carry it. Looking for a pouch  to secure it and have it go vertically. The space behind the three outside pockets works but gets in the way of the sleeping bag below.
• This pack I got back in April at an Army/Navy surplus store. Liked it so much it became my primary pack and my testing has gone on with this one. Used the same frame from my original pack.
• Haven't gotten to the unloading of the pack and deciding on load out; working on the next three and for the time being the weight is good for the workouts.

So with that in mind, here is where I stand with the remaining:

Pack #2 (75% complete)

• Adding quick connect parachute buckles right now, as of writing this I just Dremeled off the metal hardware.
• MOLLE waistband attached.
• MOLLE shoulder straps attached.
• A few pieces of paracord in eyelets still to go.
• Need to spray Flexiseal for underside of map flap.
• Paracord carrying handle still to go.

Pack #3 (50% complete)

• This was my previous pack depicted on page 1
• Quick connect buckles complete.
• MOLLE waistband dyed and reassembled, but not sure about the set on the epoxy resin of the waist band connectors in the back. May just buy another and chalk this up to learning. EDIT just checked: the combination of epoxy along with liquid stitch? Holy crap its not going anywhere. I added the liquid stitch last night and then put it in vice clamp, worked really good
• Need to order MOLLE shoulder straps.
• A few pieces of paracord in eyelets still to go.
• Need to spray Flexiseal for underside of map flap.
• Paracord carrying handle still to go.

Pack #4 (0% complete)

• Need to order quick connect buckles, but (likely) only need to order 3 more as I have some remaining from previous orders. (If I get on a role I might Dremel off the hardware tonight).
• Need to order MOLLE waistband
• Need to order MOLLE shoulder straps.
• A few pieces of paracord in eyelets still to go.
• Need to spray Flexiseal for underside of map flap.
• Paracord carrying handle still to go.

I´ve got my axe secured with an ice axe loop if I need to take it somewhere. A simple loop at the bottom of the pack, feed the axe through from the top with the edge facing inward until the head catches on the loop and flip the handle toward the top. Secure the end of the handle with either another loop or carabiner. The axe sits vertically and if you don´t need it you can use the loop to attach other things. It´s a very lightweight option and very secure.
I like your solution with the sleeping bag attachment, might need to nick that.

Quote from: Ghost on July 07, 2022, 05:43:18 PMAn important closing thought: what to do in the interim? I think something that gets missed sometimes in prepping is "stop gaps" is it great to have top notch gear in everything? Sure, and damn expensive too. Sometimes you have to have interim measures in place, whether cheap or moderate or perhaps not even what you want. So why is this important. I have three bags that fill in for the BOB while I'm upgrading these to the same standard. The good news these are good REI ones so not a step down in quality but they are not uniform which is one of the things I'm trying to fix by standardization on ALICE packs.

You´re clearly good with modifying gear. Have you tried sewing things yourself? The markup on outdoor gear can be ridiculous. Things like tents and sleeping bags are surprisingly easy to make and often a lot lighter.

Love your idea of uniform packs for everyone.

Quote from: tirls on July 08, 2022, 05:04:12 AMI´ve got my axe secured with an ice axe loop if I need to take it somewhere. A simple loop at the bottom of the pack, feed the axe through from the top with the edge facing inward until the head catches on the loop and flip the handle toward the top. Secure the end of the handle with either another loop or carabiner. The axe sits vertically and if you don´t need it you can use the loop to attach other things. It´s a very lightweight option and very secure.

I like your solution with the sleeping bag attachment, might need to nick that.

Quote from: Ghost on July 07, 2022, 05:43:18 PMAn important closing thought: what to do in the interim? I think something that gets missed sometimes in prepping is "stop gaps" is it great to have top notch gear in everything? Sure, and damn expensive too. Sometimes you have to have interim measures in place, whether cheap or moderate or perhaps not even what you want. So why is this important. I have three bags that fill in for the BOB while I'm upgrading these to the same standard. The good news these are good REI ones so not a step down in quality but they are not uniform which is one of the things I'm trying to fix by standardization on ALICE packs.

You´re clearly good with modifying gear. Have you tried sewing things yourself? The markup on outdoor gear can be ridiculous. Things like tents and sleeping bags are surprisingly easy to make and often a lot lighter.

Love your idea of uniform packs for everyone.

Many thanks, in order:
1. That is kinda what I'm thinking. I wonder if its something like this then, with what you are describing? https://www.amazon.com/leather-hammer-holder-distressed-hatchet/dp/B08NDQTGNV

2. Thanks for the complement, I think I might be able to get a sewing machine. I haven't sewed anything with one since my early teens. Passable by hand but I'd want it to be machine sewn. (parents of all boys wanted us to be able to do anything we might need to- I can sew, wife can't, I can; go figure!)

Might be a winter project: how light can I get it with maximum heat retention.

3. As far as the sleeping bag attached to bottom, feel free. Bags are well made and for the price can't beat it.

On the topic at hand:
1. 2nd pack is now 95% complete, just need to Flexiseal the inside flap.
2. All now have paracord handles. Might not look like it but they are all actually the same size. In fact the only one different is on mine. I made the other three tad bit bigger on purpose.

You can get used sewing machines for around 25-50. It doesn´t need to be a modern one either, I sew my things on an old handcrank Singer. Very thin fabrics can sometimes be slippery, silnylon for example, but that is really the only difficulty. Especially tents consist of nothing but long straight seams and it doesn´t even matter if they turn out slightly crooked. If you can hem a pair of trousers you make a tent or sleeping bag and the fabrics are all availably online.

Ice axe loops can sometimes be found on the bottom of hiking bags. I´ve got a simply loop of string that I feed through a gromet if I need one, but you can also sew one on or conect it to a daisy chain. You slide the axe in, turn it upside down and secure it at the top. I apologize for the flood of pictures.

Work continues apace:
- inside of all packs done with Flexiseal.
- 3rd MOLLE waistband reassembled.
- metal connectors off 4th pack; attaching parachute buckles outside while drinking gin and tonic. 

Quote from: tirls on July 09, 2022, 01:45:30 PMYou can get used sewing machines for around 25-50. It doesn´t need to be a modern one either, I sew my things on an old handcrank Singer. Very thin fabrics can sometimes be slippery, silnylon for example, but that is really the only difficulty. Especially tents consist of nothing but long straight seams and it doesn´t even matter if they turn out slightly crooked. If you can hem a pair of trousers you make a tent or sleeping bag and the fabrics are all availably online.

Ice axe loops can sometimes be found on the bottom of hiking bags. I´ve got a simply loop of string that I feed through a gromet if I need one, but you can also sew one on or conect it to a daisy chain. You slide the axe in, turn it upside down and secure it at the top. I apologize for the flood of pictures.

Dress/fix up that loop/rope! Lol

Quote from: Ghost on July 07, 2022, 05:43:18 PMAs discussed, the revamped pack that is forming the basis for the other three:






Couple of notes:
Pack #1 (mine- 100% complete)

• The Hultafors axe is perfect, love that thing, well worth the price, but not where I intent to carry it. Looking for a pouch  to secure it and have it go vertically. The space behind the three outside pockets works but gets in the way of the sleeping bag below.
• This pack I got back in April at an Army/Navy surplus store. Liked it so much it became my primary pack and my testing has gone on with this one. Used the same frame from my original pack.
• Haven't gotten to the unloading of the pack and deciding on load out; working on the next three and for the time being the weight is good for the workouts.

So with that in mind, here is where I stand with the remaining:

Pack #2 (75% complete)

• Adding quick connect parachute buckles right now, as of writing this I just Dremeled off the metal hardware.
• MOLLE waistband attached.
• MOLLE shoulder straps attached.
• A few pieces of paracord in eyelets still to go.
• Need to spray Flexiseal for underside of map flap.
• Paracord carrying handle still to go.

Pack #3 (50% complete)

• This was my previous pack depicted on page 1
• Quick connect buckles complete.
• MOLLE waistband dyed and reassembled, but not sure about the set on the epoxy resin of the waist band connectors in the back. May just buy another and chalk this up to learning. EDIT just checked: the combination of epoxy along with liquid stitch? Holy crap its not going anywhere. I added the liquid stitch last night and then put it in vice clamp, worked really good
• Need to order MOLLE shoulder straps.
• A few pieces of paracord in eyelets still to go.
• Need to spray Flexiseal for underside of map flap.
• Paracord carrying handle still to go.

Pack #4 (0% complete)

• Need to order quick connect buckles, but (likely) only need to order 3 more as I have some remaining from previous orders. (If I get on a role I might Dremel off the hardware tonight).
• Need to order MOLLE waistband
• Need to order MOLLE shoulder straps.
• A few pieces of paracord in eyelets still to go.
• Need to spray Flexiseal for underside of map flap.
• Paracord carrying handle still to go.

As you can see, Pack #4 needs the most work as I haven't done anything with it yet. Pack #4 also will need to be dyed. Its a bit too "bright" as it were so once I remove the metal hardware I'm going to dye it first then proceed.

NOTE: when I say complete I'm talking about them as ready to go as it were, no pack is every really complete.

An important closing thought: what to do in the interim? I think something that gets missed sometimes in prepping is "stop gaps" is it great to have top notch gear in everything? Sure, and damn expensive too. Sometimes you have to have interim measures in place, whether cheap or moderate or perhaps not even what you want. So why is this important. I have three bags that fill in for the BOB while I'm upgrading these to the same standard. The good news these are good REI ones so not a step down in quality but they are not uniform which is one of the things I'm trying to fix by standardization on ALICE packs.

So as deployed. What is the weight ?

Quote from: flybynight on July 27, 2022, 12:12:24 PM

Quote from: Ghost on July 07, 2022, 05:43:18 PMAs discussed, the revamped pack that is forming the basis for the other three:






Couple of notes:
Pack #1 (mine- 100% complete)

• The Hultafors axe is perfect, love that thing, well worth the price, but not where I intent to carry it. Looking for a pouch  to secure it and have it go vertically. The space behind the three outside pockets works but gets in the way of the sleeping bag below.
• This pack I got back in April at an Army/Navy surplus store. Liked it so much it became my primary pack and my testing has gone on with this one. Used the same frame from my original pack.
• Haven't gotten to the unloading of the pack and deciding on load out; working on the next three and for the time being the weight is good for the workouts.

So with that in mind, here is where I stand with the remaining:

Pack #2 (75% complete)

• Adding quick connect parachute buckles right now, as of writing this I just Dremeled off the metal hardware.
• MOLLE waistband attached.
• MOLLE shoulder straps attached.
• A few pieces of paracord in eyelets still to go.
• Need to spray Flexiseal for underside of map flap.
• Paracord carrying handle still to go.

Pack #3 (50% complete)

• This was my previous pack depicted on page 1
• Quick connect buckles complete.
• MOLLE waistband dyed and reassembled, but not sure about the set on the epoxy resin of the waist band connectors in the back. May just buy another and chalk this up to learning. EDIT just checked: the combination of epoxy along with liquid stitch? Holy crap its not going anywhere. I added the liquid stitch last night and then put it in vice clamp, worked really good
• Need to order MOLLE shoulder straps.
• A few pieces of paracord in eyelets still to go.
• Need to spray Flexiseal for underside of map flap.
• Paracord carrying handle still to go.

Pack #4 (0% complete)

• Need to order quick connect buckles, but (likely) only need to order 3 more as I have some remaining from previous orders. (If I get on a role I might Dremel off the hardware tonight).
• Need to order MOLLE waistband
• Need to order MOLLE shoulder straps.
• A few pieces of paracord in eyelets still to go.
• Need to spray Flexiseal for underside of map flap.
• Paracord carrying handle still to go.

As you can see, Pack #4 needs the most work as I haven't done anything with it yet. Pack #4 also will need to be dyed. Its a bit too "bright" as it were so once I remove the metal hardware I'm going to dye it first then proceed.

NOTE: when I say complete I'm talking about them as ready to go as it were, no pack is every really complete.

An important closing thought: what to do in the interim? I think something that gets missed sometimes in prepping is "stop gaps" is it great to have top notch gear in everything? Sure, and damn expensive too. Sometimes you have to have interim measures in place, whether cheap or moderate or perhaps not even what you want. So why is this important. I have three bags that fill in for the BOB while I'm upgrading these to the same standard. The good news these are good REI ones so not a step down in quality but they are not uniform which is one of the things I'm trying to fix by standardization on ALICE packs.

So as deployed. What is the weight ?

Right now? 30 LBs, looking to lighten the load however...

Back at it.
Got a good deal on the last 2 needed Molle shoulder straps. So when they arrive all packs will be standardized:

ALICE packs
ALICE frames
MOLLE II shoulder straps
MOLLE II Waist band

Next will be getting 6 more of the compression sacks listed up thread.

Likely will need three 1967 sleeping bag carriers as well.


Additionally each will have a camouflage tarp with pre attached 1150 paracord for tents/shelter

Thinking further ahead will be packing all the sand and a "inventory sheet" listing what goes where.

I've tested these out a bunch of times and they ride well. The one for my wife is complete and she handles it well.

As a next step I may buy one MOLLE plastic frame to see if it works with the setup. I've seen then as low as $15 so not that much of a risk if they don't work.

Still mulling the camel pack locations, likely a winter project to place in the void space behind the back as previously discussed.

They're all looking good!

For those who might not be aware, very good series of articles here listing how a soldier modified his ALICE packs over the decades: 

https://soldiersystems.net/2015/09/28/the-baldwin-files-alice-pack-trilogy-part-1-of-3/

https://soldiersystems.net/2015/10/08/the-baldwin-articles-alice-pack-trilogy-part-2-of-3/

https://soldiersystems.net/2015/10/14/the-baldwin-articles-alice-pack-trilogy-part-3-of-3/

To me this was very insightful as it mirrors a lot of what many of us have done.

By this weekend I'll have the packs all standardized as mentioned above, but the Molle II or FILBE frames are interesting. Does anyone know if either will fit a medium ALICE? All the articles and forums I've found only mention the large.

If so for around $40-60 for all four, I might even hit a sweeter spot with my setups and shave off the weight of the LC-2 frames.

Another change in making is eliminating the top bag by repacking everything. I'm linking that profile better. Just need to work on the setup. That will still mean three more 1967 sleeping bag carriers for the other three packs but that is what it is.

All parts for the packs have arrived and working on assembly. I expect by this weekend all four will be ready to go sans the following:
2 compression sacks for sleeping bags
3 more M1967 sleeping bag carriers

Plan is to get the sacks first then the carriers as they pop up for sale.

ETA: just like that got a good deal on three M1967 carriers

Home stretch now.

- 2 sleeping bag carriers orderd
- last 4 parachute buckles ordered.

Now its just attach and fill the bags.

1 more MRE for my daughter and son's load out too but that's next week.

Got oics of your final results? Still very interested in what you came up. A pricelist would be cool too. The advantage of your loadout is it might be slightly cheap. 

Quote from: Moab on January 17, 2023, 07:22:23 PMGot oics of your final results? Still very interested in what you came up. A pricelist would be cool too. The advantage of your loadout is it might be slightly cheap.

Probably a good thing to do to tie it all together. What I'll do is take the average of it as some packs cost more some less.

Last parts is a few more MREs and four rain covers searching that out now.

Quote from: Ghost on January 19, 2023, 01:45:36 PM

Quote from: Moab on January 17, 2023, 07:22:23 PMGot oics of your final results? Still very interested in what you came up. A pricelist would be cool too. The advantage of your loadout is it might be slightly cheap.

Probably a good thing to do to tie it all together. What I'll do is take the average of it as some packs cost more some less.

Last parts is a few more MREs and four rain covers searching that out now.

I got an unused large alice last summer for $50(?). Or something ridiculously cheap. I saw it on offerup back east. And couldn't pass it up. Brand new.

I just saw pack covers some place on sale. Can't remember though. What color and what size?