Camouflage

Started by Optimist, January 26, 2023, 02:18:56 PM

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Optimist

Quote from: echo83 on July 13, 2023, 09:16:54 PMI think this is exactly why the US military initially adopted M81 Woodland (a personal favorite of mine) which is an enlarged version of ERDL.

Woodland seems to run into this same problem, at least according to Wikipedia:

The effect of enlarging the pattern was to make the pattern more visible at a distance, avoiding "blobbing", where smaller areas of color seem to blend into larger blobs. This also gave the pattern a higher contrast, making it stand out more sharply at close distances and defeating the camouflage effect at closer range. Digital and Flecktarn camouflage patterns resolve this problem by using a range of blob sizes to give a similar effect whatever the distance.

What's confusing to me is the above makes it sound like M81 Woodland fails at all ranges, right? The plains of Europe would make it more visible at a distance, and close-up use in a forest would make it more visible, too? Doesn't make sense. It should either be great at long distance and poor at close distance, or vise versa.

It can't suck at all distances. I won't allow it. All my inna woods gear is M81 woodland!

If I'm reading it right what they mean by "make the pattern more visible at distance" is that the pattern still works at distance, instead of blobbing into single color, but isn't as good at close range because of the high contrast large blobs.

I also have a soft spot for M81 Woodland, having been born in the 80s. I think it's too dark for where I live, but I was thinking about adding some Arcturus Laser-Cut Leaf Strips in Summer Green during the summer taking it off and putting on something similar in white in the winter.

An interesting video series I saw on the history of M81 Woodland (I think it was on the Uniform History Youtube channel, you might have seen the same thing) was that going from ERDL to M81 they intentionally made the whole pattern darker than what they wanted because they noticed manufacturers tended to dye colors lighter when doing huge runs and also the pattern would fade with time.

Quote from: MacWa77ace on July 14, 2023, 07:41:18 AMHave you seen the ones where they use the liquid dish soap yet?
Yeah, those ones are fun to watch!

JeeperCreeper

Quote from: MacWa77ace on July 14, 2023, 07:41:18 AM
Quote from: Optimist on July 10, 2023, 02:31:24 AMFor a year or two now I've been watching rifle painting videos for fun. There's something about them that scratches the same itch as acrylic pour painting videos.

Have you seen the ones where they use the liquid dish soap yet?

I'm gonna be a hipster about this.... My brother showed me surf dudes doing their boards with dish soap a few years ago. My first thought went to camo for guns because the laundry bag is way played out.

I found no camo threads on the internet about dish soap camp on any forum, blog, or reddit.

So I played around with it...

Now, you're seeing it start to pop up on reddit, Facebook groups, and forums.

I'm mad at myself for not doing YouTube videos and stuff about it so I could say "look at me, I'm first!!"

I'm going to start doing designs with Vaseline.

You heard it here first! Rattle can Vaseline gun camo!!!!
ZS sigs from memory that I don't remember who said:

"JeeperCreeper and Halfapint are the forum ass hats and they guard that position with gusto"

"My wife's primary defense will be a 10/22, her secondary is nagging"

echo83

Quote from: Optimist on July 14, 2023, 01:51:28 PM
Quote from: echo83 on July 13, 2023, 09:16:54 PMI think this is exactly why the US military initially adopted M81 Woodland (a personal favorite of mine) which is an enlarged version of ERDL.

Woodland seems to run into this same problem, at least according to Wikipedia:

The effect of enlarging the pattern was to make the pattern more visible at a distance, avoiding "blobbing", where smaller areas of color seem to blend into larger blobs. This also gave the pattern a higher contrast, making it stand out more sharply at close distances and defeating the camouflage effect at closer range. Digital and Flecktarn camouflage patterns resolve this problem by using a range of blob sizes to give a similar effect whatever the distance.

What's confusing to me is the above makes it sound like M81 Woodland fails at all ranges, right? The plains of Europe would make it more visible at a distance, and close-up use in a forest would make it more visible, too? Doesn't make sense. It should either be great at long distance and poor at close distance, or vise versa.

It can't suck at all distances. I won't allow it. All my inna woods gear is M81 woodland!

If I'm reading it right what they mean by "make the pattern more visible at distance" is that the pattern still works at distance, instead of blobbing into single color, but isn't as good at close range because of the high contrast large blobs.

Got it. Yeah, that makes way more sense. Instead of seeing a formation of obviously human-shaped olive drab lumps approaching from a distance, the individual colors are still intact and work to break up the contour. 

On a kind-of related note, I wonder why so few people take a page from the IDF handbook and use solid olive drab as a primary uniform. The history behind it is pretty interesting; olive drab works well enough with their environment, is cheaper to manufacture, and helps the Israelis differentiate their own units from enemy units, which all use patterned camouflage. 

There are some exceptions, like the mitznefet ("chef's hat") but plain olive drab seems most common. 

MacWa77ace

Quote from: JeeperCreeper on July 14, 2023, 11:25:35 PM
Quote from: MacWa77ace on July 14, 2023, 07:41:18 AM
Quote from: Optimist on July 10, 2023, 02:31:24 AMFor a year or two now I've been watching rifle painting videos for fun. There's something about them that scratches the same itch as acrylic pour painting videos.

Have you seen the ones where they use the liquid dish soap yet?

I'm gonna be a hipster about this.... My brother showed me surf dudes doing their boards with dish soap a few years ago. My first thought went to camo for guns because the laundry bag is way played out.

I found no camo threads on the internet about dish soap camp on any forum, blog, or reddit.

So I played around with it...

Now, you're seeing it start to pop up on reddit, Facebook groups, and forums.

I'm mad at myself for not doing YouTube videos and stuff about it so I could say "look at me, I'm first!!"

I'm going to start doing designs with Vaseline.

You heard it here first! Rattle can Vaseline gun camo!!!!

The thing about dish soap is it cleans off easily.
Lifetime gamer watch at MacWa77ace YouTube Channel
#TRowPriceSucks
Ask me about my Fully Semi-Automatic 30-Mag clip death gun .


Optimist

#24
There's certain types of hairspray that are used in a similar way to the dish soap for painting models. Not sure how well it would work for rifles.

JeeperCreeper

Quote from: Optimist on July 16, 2023, 04:29:08 PMThere's certain types of hairspray that are used in a similar way to the dish soap for painting models. Not sure how well it would work for rifles.
I'm gonna hafta dig into that.

Elmer's glue is another I've been seeing popping up.

I bet there might even be some modelling clay as well.

Things that stick, but easy to clean up
ZS sigs from memory that I don't remember who said:

"JeeperCreeper and Halfapint are the forum ass hats and they guard that position with gusto"

"My wife's primary defense will be a 10/22, her secondary is nagging"

Optimist

Another thing frequently used in model painting is silly putty. It's easy to stick down (especially on uneven surfaces), easy to peel back off without removing paint and can be reused. Sometimes I see people using stickers and once they get several layers of stickers and paint in it is hard to remove the first layers. Not a problem with silly putty.

Of course silly putty is hard to do crisp edges with, so if someone wanted to replicate a digital pattern stickers still have a place.

MacWa77ace

Quote from: JeeperCreeper on July 16, 2023, 05:26:09 PM
Quote from: Optimist on July 16, 2023, 04:29:08 PMThere's certain types of hairspray that are used in a similar way to the dish soap for painting models. Not sure how well it would work for rifles.
I'm gonna hafta dig into that.

Elmer's glue is another I've been seeing popping up.

I bet there might even be some modelling clay as well.

Things that stick, but easy to clean up

If you're going to spend money, there's spray on, and paint on, or stick on 'masking' material you can get at an artstore. But its not as cheap as dish soap, mesh bags or leaves. And it takes more work. These other techniques are cheap and fast and effective.

https://www.paintingwithwatercolors.com/2012/02/art-masking-fluid/

Lifetime gamer watch at MacWa77ace YouTube Channel
#TRowPriceSucks
Ask me about my Fully Semi-Automatic 30-Mag clip death gun .


flybynight

"Hey idiot, you should feel your pulse, not see it."  Echo 83

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