ALICE, the most versitile ruck there is?

Started by Ghost, March 30, 2022, 08:57:32 PM

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Moab

Do any of you have good sources for a good deal on frames and waist belts? I need two of each.

Just being lazy. I need to search this online. I don't mind aftermarket either. 

Ghost - do you think all aftermarkets are to small? Or just the ones you looked at? Thats really odd that they would try to copy the alice frame. And not have it at least match dimensionally.

I was also looking at an aftermarket medium alice in multicam. With everything - frame, ruck, shoulder straps and waist belt for $150. I know thats alot for an aftermarket alice. But if your hooked on multicam, like i am, its not a bad deal. I think even the ruck from spec ops is $150. I'll post it if anyones interested.

I haven't looked for a complete used medium alice in years. What do they go for? There used to be a surolus site that always had the best deals on them. I can see the site in my mind. But i dont remember the address. I'll have to dig thru my old bookmarks on my desktop.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

Rednex

The old boards had a thread on making an Alice pack frame out of pvc pipe. Think a heat gun was used to arch some pipe to conform to the arch in there back. Just pipe and elbows and glue.

Ghost

#22
Quote from: Moab on April 26, 2022, 06:32:31 PMDo any of you have good sources for a good deal on frames and waist belts? I need two of each.

Just being lazy. I need to search this online. I don't mind aftermarket either.

Ghost - do you think all aftermarkets are to small? Or just the ones you looked at? Thats really odd that they would try to copy the alice frame. And not have it at least match dimensionally.

I was also looking at an aftermarket medium alice in multicam. With everything - frame, ruck, shoulder straps and waist belt for $150. I know thats alot for an aftermarket alice. But if your hooked on multicam, like i am, its not a bad deal. I think even the ruck from spec ops is $150. I'll post it if anyones interested.

I haven't looked for a complete used medium alice in years. What do they go for? There used to be a surolus site that always had the best deals on them. I can see the site in my mind. But i dont remember the address. I'll have to dig thru my old bookmarks on my desktop.
In order:

1. In terms of the mini/small ALICE packs here is where I looked at them: https://camolots.com/collections/alice-packs-combat-packs. They are from Rothco and a really good review here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAVpT8wY1DU

As he notes the problem is the pack is just too small to be useful, and it does utilize the ALICE frame. Watch the video, it s a cool concept, but I can see why the military didn't utilize it. I can't speak to all aftermarket ones, but while a cool idea you're better off with a medium in the long run.

I did see them in person and it just felt "off" having used the mediums and weird that you have that much available space on the frame.

2. You can find ALICE Packs on eBay (or the site above) but the price has been climbing and paradoxically all over the place at the same time. The price you are mentioning is correct. I got mine around $110 complete with a first responder discount. Personally unless the seller has a lot of photos I only buy them if I can see it in person, or if its someone trustworthy, say on the site. Too many variables IMO to buy sight unseen.

ETA (for those not in the know):
Dimensions of a mini/small ALICE: https://www.rothco.com/product/rothco-mini-alice-pack
Dimensions of a medium ALICE: https://geekprepper.com/alice-pack-bug-out-bag-upgrade/

Ghost

#23
Oh, and that crumbly, rubberized liner that is shot to Hell on your ALICE pack?

Genius idea on how to repair it:
Part 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LTH4JiV11c

Part 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxmxAUpwqa4

Unfortunately (IMO) none of the color choices are great, a darker green would be ideal...

Moab

Wow. They used be $50 complete for used. 

FWIW I would stay away from everything rothco. Unless its something simple like a canteen or p38 or something. Even then check reviews. They are notorious for the lowest quality stuff. Cheap. Which is good sometimes. But low quality.

I'll have to dig around for some alice pack links.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

Ghost

Quote from: Moab on April 26, 2022, 09:21:31 PMWow. They used be $50 complete for used.

FWIW I would stay away from everything rothco. Unless its something simple like a canteen or p38 or something. Even then check reviews. They are notorious for the lowest quality stuff. Cheap. Which is good sometimes. But low quality.

I'll have to dig around for some alice pack links.
$50-$80 (on average) for the bag and the frame roughly the same for the frame. Some sell the straps separately too. If you are patient you can get something lower but it takes a lot of watching to get a good deal.

My pack I got for a good price $50 for a OD Medium, but that was 12 years ago. Straps were beat up which I've modified (as seen in this thread) likely to get replacement ones.

Ghost

Question for the military types here:
- I understand the concept of field stripping the MREs, but a few questions.

Thoughts on the BoB, getting four meals down to four meals, but in one MRE bag per two meals? Weight is somewhat less but without the not needed stuff I've doubled the MREs in terms of space . I should also add, daughter is a vegetarian... so I've mixed and matched some MREs to add stuff she'll eat (obviously if SHTF that falls away) but for now it works should we need to get out of Dodge.

Basically I have it so I have two meals in one pouch with the "comfort stuff" (stripped down into one or the other) for each person's bag

Moab

Quote from: Ghost on May 01, 2022, 03:31:40 PMQuestion for the military types here:
- I understand the concept of field stripping the MREs, but a few questions.

Thoughts on the BoB, getting four meals down to four meals, but in one MRE bag per two meals? Weight is somewhat less but without the not needed stuff I've doubled the MREs in terms of space . I should also add, daughter is a vegetarian... so I've mixed and matched some MREs to add stuff she'll eat (obviously if SHTF that falls away) but for now it works should we need to get out of Dodge.

Basically I have it so I have two meals in one pouch with the "comfort stuff" (stripped down into one or the other) for each person's bag
Not sure I'm following your questions. But first there are vegatarian mre's. And they are cheap as fewer folks want them. 

I break mine down too. And take out alot of fluff. And add better things to them. I do like the crackers but i dont think alot of people do. And they are bulky. But they remind me of sailor crackers. Which i grew up on. Those and some jelly are a treat for me. I like the peanut butter too.

I don't use salt and pepper. Or the chinsy plastic silverware. I never used the heating pouches either. Because i got out before those were added. I was in at the end of c rations and the beginning if mre's. C rations were way better. But the mre weight made up for it. Canned food is just not backpack friendly. I loved the heat tabs tho. And if you sprinkled either the salt or the sugar over them before lighting. They wouldnt stink. I don't remember what we did to heat food before they added those heat packs to mre's. It might have been those two packs of heat tabs in foil. In addition to the mre.

I carry a mix of mountain house, mre and store bought stuff. But most of the store bought stuff is fairly fresh and used hiking. Not much that can be stored for long. I like alot of trader joe nuts and dried fruit. Youll find none better or cheaper. And it tends to last awhile  I've tried storing beef jerky. But it does not fair well. I bought it bulk. And it only lasted a few months before molding.

There are many many dehydrated food manufacturers now tho. That i would look into. Just do a top ten dehydrated foods search. I want to try more backpackers pantry(?). They are cheap and get goid reviews. Another in texas sells single items bulk. And there is of course LDS #10 cans of dried food. You could put together ingredients from. That would be very cheap i would think.


"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

Ghost

#28
Quote from: Moab on May 15, 2022, 07:41:52 PM
Quote from: Ghost on May 01, 2022, 03:31:40 PMQuestion for the military types here:
- I understand the concept of field stripping the MREs, but a few questions.

Thoughts on the BoB, getting four meals down to four meals, but in one MRE bag per two meals? Weight is somewhat less but without the not needed stuff I've doubled the MREs in terms of space . I should also add, daughter is a vegetarian... so I've mixed and matched some MREs to add stuff she'll eat (obviously if SHTF that falls away) but for now it works should we need to get out of Dodge.

Basically I have it so I have two meals in one pouch with the "comfort stuff" (stripped down into one or the other) for each person's bag
Not sure I'm following your questions. But first there are vegatarian mre's. And they are cheap as fewer folks want them.

I break mine down too. And take out alot of fluff. And add better things to them. I do like the crackers but i dont think alot of people do. And they are bulky. But they remind me of sailor crackers. Which i grew up on. Those and some jelly are a treat for me. I like the peanut butter too.

I don't use salt and pepper. Or the chinsy plastic silverware. I never used the heating pouches either. Because i got out before those were added. I was in at the end of c rations and the beginning if mre's. C rations were way better. But the mre weight made up for it. Canned food is just not backpack friendly. I loved the heat tabs tho. And if you sprinkled either the salt or the sugar over them before lighting. They wouldnt stink. I don't remember what we did to heat food before they added those heat packs to mre's. It might have been those two packs of heat tabs in foil. In addition to the mre.

I carry a mix of mountain house, mre and store bought stuff. But most of the store bought stuff is fairly fresh and used hiking. Not much that can be stored for long. I like alot of trader joe nuts and dried fruit. Youll find none better or cheaper. And it tends to last awhile  I've tried storing beef jerky. But it does not fair well. I bought it bulk. And it only lasted a few months before molding.

There are many many dehydrated food manufacturers now tho. That i would look into. Just do a top ten dehydrated foods search. I want to try more backpackers pantry(?). They are cheap and get goid reviews. Another in texas sells single items bulk. And there is of course LDS #10 cans of dried food. You could put together ingredients from. That would be very cheap i would think.



I think I may not have worded it great but here is what I did.

1. I took all the MREs and emptied out everything.

2. From there I mixed and matched what each family member wanted.

3. Organized four meals for each person, field stripped. Placed each meal in its own ziplock bag. Labeled and taped with clear packing tape.

4. Placed 2 field stripped meals into one Mylar bag. (I saved the bags the MREs came in); labeled that with the contents.

5. In one of the two meals I placed a stripped down "meal kit" aka minimum sugars, salt etc.

6. Labeled the outside of the bags with what is inside and clear packing taped over that.

7. Squashed the bag containing the two meals and taped that.

8. End results? Placed 2 MRE Mylar bags labeled and field stripped, each containing 2 meals into each pack. Thus, four meals per person's pack, but greatly reduced on bulk and weight.

As an aside I tried some of the MREs. Are people expecting steak and lobster?(Not saying you) ;) I've eaten far, far worse stuff.

Ghost

So work on my second ALICE and replacing the buckles with quick disconnect (parachute clips). The nylon loops on this one are much more stiff. As a result I've had to cut them and glue it back together with liquid stitch in some cases. On the other pack I was able to muscle the clips on with a cut through it with the Dremel, not so here.

Ghost

#30
So the M1967 sleep carrier isn't quite working the way I want it to so I started to think of the sleep systems overall and what I really want:
  • Modular, around here we get all four seasons
  • Lightweight
  • Something roll-able
  • Something that isn't in a bulky load out like the MSS, don't get me wrong they look awesome and are well liked, but fairly expensive.
  • For my pad I use this, somewhat pricey, but well worth it. Camped in fairly cold weather (upper 20s) in my regular bag and was warm. Folds up neatly and goes right in the ruck. https://klymit.com/collections/sleeping-pads/products/insulated-static-v-lite-sleeping-pad
  • I'm looking to eliminate the sleeping bags from my load out.
    Less bulk
I came across this, the Ranger roll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvinrG8mnWc

Probably nothing new to the military guys, but this has advantages of being modular, roll able could possibly work with the M1967 sleeping bag carrier attached to the ALICE. Granted if raining a tarp is needed but that's fairly light weight.

Can't see any downsides to this.

Single biggest cost is the wool blanket and the heaviest but everything else is light and rolls up in one piece. About the only improvement I can think of would be a waterproof tarp of some type to take the place of the poncho like this:https://www.amazon.com/Ultralight-Backpacking-Tarp-Ground-Cloth/dp/B073475HTC/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2SO2RIV8ZYJNM&keywords=personal+waterproof+tarp&qid=1653104673&sprefix=personal+waterproof+tarp%2Caps%2C156&sr=8-4
 
Thoughts? It seems to really accomplish what Im looking to do. It also has the advantage of I'm not carrying something bulky on the top of the pack.

EDIT: another thought is throw in one of the smaller light weight bivy bags along with the mix above instead of the mylar blanket.




Moab

Quote from: Ghost on May 20, 2022, 11:19:56 PMSo the M1967 sleep carrier isn't quite working the way I want it to so I started to think of the sleep systems overall and what I really want:
  • Modular, around here we get all four seasons
  • Lightweight
  • Something roll-able
  • Something that isn't in a bulky load out like the MSS, don't get me wrong they look awesome and are well liked, but fairly expensive.
  • For my pad I use this, somewhat pricey, but well worth it. Camped in fairly cold weather (upper 20s) in my regular bag and was warm. Folds up neatly and goes right in the ruck. https://klymit.com/collections/sleeping-pads/products/insulated-static-v-lite-sleeping-pad
  • I'm looking to eliminate the sleeping bags from my load out.
    Less bulk
I came across this, the Ranger roll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvinrG8mnWc

Probably nothing new to the military guys, but this has advantages of being modular, roll able could possibly work with the M1967 sleeping bag carrier attached to the ALICE. Granted if raining a tarp is needed but that's fairly light weight.

Can't see any downsides to this.

Single biggest cost is the wool blanket and the heaviest but everything else is light and rolls up in one piece. About the only improvement I can think of would be a waterproof tarp of some type to take the place of the poncho like this:https://www.amazon.com/Ultralight-Backpacking-Tarp-Ground-Cloth/dp/B073475HTC/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2SO2RIV8ZYJNM&keywords=personal+waterproof+tarp&qid=1653104673&sprefix=personal+waterproof+tarp%2Caps%2C156&sr=8-4
 
Thoughts? It seems to really accomplish what Im looking to do. It also has the advantage of I'm not carrying something bulky on the top of the pack.

EDIT: another thought is throw in one of the smaller light weight bivy bags along with the mix above instead of the mylar blanket.





You will freeze your ass off in that. And its way to heavy.

I was in the Marine Corps. And used ranger rolls. But we of course would never refer to them as that. Lol. That idea has been around for decades. 

But we only used the poncho and liner. You might get more warmth by adding a wool blanket and mylar. But its not going to breath. So your going to sweat. Not to mention the weight to comfort ratio is way off. You'd be better served using a commercial down bag and bivy. If you need the added protection of the bivy. 

This is why you've only found one or a few guys that recommend this system. Is it used in the military? Yes. Because it sucks less than carrying the extra 10lb MSS. And your mission using this type of system is limited to better climates and shorter missions. Trust me. If the military allowed you choose your own gear. This would be the last system used. But when its all your allowed to carry. Its a nice compromise in better weather. Thus the famed ranger roll.

So lets talk real world. Where you get to decide from any products available.

Are you tarp camping? Tent camping? If your in a tent you don't need a bivy. And your starting from a weight deficit. Because of the alice. Your pack is one of the big 3. Pack, shelter, sleep system. Your pack is already at least 5lbs overweight at 10lbs. You can easily get a 4lb pack for the price of an alice. 

My first advice is sell all the Alice's and get real modern packs. Alices were only a good option when they were cheap. And you couldnt afford anymore. Sell them for $150. And buy a new bag for $150 and it will be tens times better. And weigh 5 or 6lbs less. 

But lets go on the assumption that your not gonna sell the alice packs.

The next place you can save weight is the sleep system. The cheapest down bags are from Kelty. Unless you can find something from last year on sale. Or used. 

Kelty has a sale around this time of year. You can get a 0F to maybe 20F dridown bag for $100 to $150. I used to recommend the usgi bivy. But now at over $80. Its not such a grand slam. But it is still the toughest for the money. I have not shopped for bivies in a long time tho.

There's a site called gearx that sells last years models. Here is their page for down bags by price.

https://www.gearx.com/camping/sleeping-bags

Or at least it should be down by price. But that place is a great source of cheaper last years items. Look at their oacks and tents too. Even netter look on offerup, CL and Facebook Marketplace.

Down is light weight, packs very small, and with the newer down tech isn't as easy to get wet as it once was. I highly encourage you to look into it.

Your going to have to save weight someplace or your going to end up with 25-30lbs of just base weight with your main 3. 

What you need is also very dependant on your environment. Two things i would suggest:

1) Consider breaking your gear down between winter and the rest of the year. Make an extra module of winter needs. That can be exchanged or added to your system when u need it. Like say a tent in winter and a tarp the rest of the year. If your ao can work that way. (Also consider.modules if you move from BOB to INCH bag for instance. Add a module to your BOB that makes it an INCH etc.)

2) Consider the above - tarp camping. The lightest i have ever figured out to go is a tarp, bivy and down sleeping bag. In the extreme just a sleeping bag and bivy. But that is rough living. And as lightweight as you can get tarp material for nowdays. I think the tarp, bivy sleeping bag idea is the way to go. Then add a tent in the winter. Or exchange the tarp for a tent. I really like the idea of a tent and even a small, very lightweight tarp. You need area outside of your tent that is protected in bad weather.

Last word of caution.

I say this because I've been there. Go look at my first  INCH loadout post. It was all "bombproof" cheap military gear. And weighed as much as a Volkswagan.

You want to take advantage of an inexpensive, bombproof set up from the military. Because its cool, is very rugged, and appears to hit all the buttons for the best bombproof gear set up. But its not cheap anymore. As evidenced by the price of alice and mss now. But its always been to heavy.

If you really want to get bad ass. Think about what special forces uses. They can pick anything they want. I have an Arcteryx 80l multicam backpack that only weighs 5lbs. That was once used by sf. You don't have to buy Arcteryx brand tho. Its uber expensive. I only bought it on sale from Canada for $200. It was a one time deal.

But if sf could choose their own gear it would be as lightweight as possible. And "good enough" to get the mission done. Which is very different from "Can the military buy this backpack for every member? And be able to throw it fully loaded 8ft off the back of a truck time and time again?".

SF will use these lightweight modern technical equipment. Because they know the weight they save will be taken up by ammo, food and other operational tools that are more important than being able to throw their ruck off a truck 17 times. And this isn't to mention how faster and farther they can move. Without that added weight. You want that too.

Again, you can get a modern pack that will carry your load on your body tens times more comfortable than an alice. For the same amount of money. That is over half the weight. Thats 5lbs of ammo. Or food. Or radio equipment. Or 5lbs lighter on your feet when your trying to truck up that mountain.

Consider your complete system. Shelter, sleep system and pack. And don't decide on a pack if you haven't carried one a good distance over multiple days. It sucks. Even with the best packs. Thats part of where the term "Embrace the suck!" comes from.

I suggest you stop where your at. Go take a three day trip. Before you spend anymore money. And then decide what gear you want. 
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

tirls

I´m one of those ultralight hikers, so take this into consideration. Having said that, my gear has lasted 10 years and around 4000 miles now, without any major failures.

Wool blankets are nice, but not If you need to carry them. They are bulky and heavy. The only true advantage they have is if you are near a campfire. If you use the fire for warmth, you are better off investing in a sleeping bag / quilt. A wool blanket weighs easily over 2kg and gets me down to around 10°C, a regular (not ultralight) sleeping bag around 1kg gets you easily down to freezing.
If you want the wool blanket so you can sleep next to a fire, it is better to get a cover or bivy that doesn´t burn. Personally, I use a piece of densely woven cotton. But in my opinion, it´s easier to get an adequate sleeping bag for the temperatures you are expecting.

With a bivy I would go for a synthetic sleeping bag / quilt. You can have the best breathable material that is available, if it rains you will get condensation. If it rains over consecutive days without the option of drying out your bag, the down will collapse, even if it is waterproofed. I´ve also had down collapse on me without a bivy, but that was over several weeks in moist conditions.

If you want to save weight, the lightest option is a down quilt. Down vs. synthetic is a personal choice. Quilts are lighter but you need to try out whether you like them. If you enjoy using the poncho liner a quilt might be a good option for you. You can sow one (especially synthetic) easily yourself, even if you are unexperienced.
There are also quilts with a neck opening in the middle that are usable as a poncho (similar to a poncho liner, only warmer). I only know European manufacturers, but I´m sure there are some in the US. I like to have a dedicated sleeping bag and jacket and not a poncho liner. Otherwise, if you use it for a longer time, it will get smelly, and moist if it rains.

A sleeping bag doesn´t have to have durable fabric, it is not going to snag on anything. Mine has an outer fabric that weighs 30g/m² and is still intact after over 10 years of regular use. The important thing is the filling and storage. I prefer climashield apex as insulation. 200/250 g/m² should be enough down to around 0°C.

For a shelter, the lightest is a tarp. Combined with either a simple ground cloth, bivy (there are very lightweight bug bivys and water-resistant options), or a kind of inner net. I like bivys because they also add warmth and protect against wind. A tarp poncho is a nice multipurpose option if you don´t mind that you don´t have any shell layer if your camp is set up. Ponchos can also get very annoying in windy areas.
There are shaped tarps, that give you some of the advantages of tents. I have a MLD cricket at home, that has withstood winds of around 60mph. If you want a tent a simple mid is lightweight and very wind resistant with lots of space. I would use a tent if you expect lots of dust (for example Iceland) or heavy snow, for everything else I´d use my tarp.

You can also use a waterproof bivy as a standalone. The lighter ones weigh around 300-500g. I´ve done this, but wouldn´t recommend it for areas where you expect mostly rain. You can use a mini tarp over the head portion to get a bit more room if that is the case.

It all depends on what climate you are in and your personal preferences.
My sleeping bag is the one piece of gear I don´t care too much about weight if it lets me sleep comfortably. You can go longer without food than sleep. Consider your expected minimum temperature and choose your sleep system accordingly.
Also consider how long you expect to have to use your sleep system.

I agree with Moab: The most important thing is to try your system out. For example I sleep very cold and need a sleeping bag that is rated 10°C more than what the manufacturer says. Or it might be that you have a quilt and can´t stand it. The best sleeping bag and shelter is useless if you can´t sleep in it.

Ghost

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Couple of points:
1, I have been using my gear, I regularly camp even in cold weather. I tend to sleep VERY hot. My personal biggest issue is back comfort, hence the Kylmet mat I use.

2. @Moab, weve talked about this, for me an ALICE fits just fine and the weight sits on my hips well at 5 7" As you mentioned you're taller hence it not fitting as well.

3. On the idea of weight. When I was first a fireman? we used these, talk about uncomfortable! https://www.dontscrapit.com/New-Hampshire-/Scott-2216-psi-air-pak-presur-pak-ii-2-mask.php5 ALICE packs are luxury compared to this torture!

4. Point taken on the ranger rolls. I want something more portable so perhaps the bivy advice is the way to go. Years ago I made sure i had enough sleeping bags. What I'm looking at now is the load out and upgrades. I keep coming back to my ground map. Compact, lightweight and fits neatly in the pack.

In general on the ALICE packs: I've used my primary one for years. I recently upgraded everything and it works well. My next step might be swapping it for MOLLE shoulder straps as the MOLLE waist band is perfect. Overall as not crazy tall the ALICE fits me well and weight distribution isn't an issue.

But here is the weirdest thing (perhaps for some), I actually like the internal layout of the ALICE and the pockets on the outside. With the buckles swapped out its like a completely different pack.

tirls

#34
If you sleep hot and have used the poncho liner before you could add a sol escape bivy. I know someone who uses it as a standalone sleep option (no sleeping bag or anything) at around 55°F, for extra insulation a thin packaple down quilt if needed. If you use the down quilt inside the poncho liner, the synthetic liner protects the down from condensation.
Add a tarpponcho for cover.

The sol escape bivy weighs 241g, a lightweight down quilt / blanket around 400g, a lightweight silnylon tarpponcho 230g.
That would put you around 870g plus whatever your poncho liner weighs for a modular sleep system that you can use down to freezing and gives you a rain cover.

Ghost

Taking a pause from the consideration on the sleep systems. Biggest issue is attachment with the right compression sack; the M1967 sleeping bag carrier was not a great success with the bag. Could be in need a more compact bag or better compression sack or both. So more research is needed as we get all four seasons here.

I know what I want to do (I think) but shifted to working on higher up on the priorities list as it were. 

In for a penny, in for a pound as they say and thanks to a member here I now have medium ALICE packs for all four of the family members as BOBs.

For what I'm looking to do, it has the following advantages.
- all are or will be set to the Hellcat mod with parachute buckles in place for all the metal hardware.

- all have MOLLE waistband/belts.

- all will or already have paracord carrying handles. (See page 1)

- commonality of load out. All will (roughly speaking) store the same items in the same spot in each ruck.

All are in good shape, three are OD green except mine which is camo (swapped it from page one.)

Remaining is: swapping the buckles on the latest packs where needed and finishing sewing on one MOLLE belt/band.

Once complete I'll refocus on a permanent solution for all sleep systems. In the interim I have temp solutions, but bulky for the bags. Likely next step on that front is two more Klymet mats: lightweight, compact and work really, really well.

Ghost

Now that I've had a chance to delve into the two ALICE packs I just got?Holy crap the MOLLE II shoulder straps with the MOLLE II waist band make the ALICE close to perfect IMO. All I need to do now is determine the sleep system carrying for the bags and I'm set for my needs.

Coming up right after 4th of July I'll be starting to test out my pack one some hikes of varying lengths.

Ghost

Update
No photos at the moment, but I may have at least solved my interim dilemma in terms of how carry my sleeping bag: better compression sack (duh right?); so with that in mind I went with this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08HDCGN5X?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

Works perfectly with the sleeping bag inside and attached to the bottom of the ALICE and can be cinched tight with? You guessed it the M1967 sleeping bag carrier works perfect for this. I also have a feeling that once I upgrade to better, lightweight bags its going to carry even better. Seems fairly durable for the price.

Next step is getting another for the "top" bag as that's where I'm carrying my woobie, poncho and tarp. Kymet ground mat goes in the main pouch as its really compact. So, sleep system solved for the moment. But as it stands right now I'm forgoing a tent, tarp it is (more on that below).

As noted next steps are some walking tests (wife is going to drop me off and I'm going to hoof it back) and see where it goes.

After this my last steps is to sew some loops on the end of my quick release straps.

This will give me a prototype as it were for the other three bags and can gauge what works and what doesn't while considering the load out; out already is the machete and hand saw. Hultafors axe for the win! I know the tendency is to throw everything in there but I'm trying to evaluate it right from the beginning so folding saw is borderline right now with a small ring saw taking its place.

As an aside and somewhat related to the packs? I started thinking about drop tanks used on military aircraft starting in WW2 to increase range and how that would work for bugging out on foot during SHTF with "drop tanks". Solution? I have a two wheel cart that I use for deer hunting with can easily be pulled. As long as its no too over-weighted while bugging out? That's where the stuff that doesn't quite make the cut goes" the a fore mentioned tent, saw, machete, etc. Basically, stuff you would want to take with you but if you have to abandon it, you can. Thoughts?

tirls

Quote from: Ghost on June 21, 2022, 08:13:52 PMNo photos at the moment, but I may have at least solved my interim dilemma in terms of how carry my sleeping bag: better compression sack
I´d be really interested in pictures. I´ve been thinking about adding one to the bottom of my pack. I usually like to stuff my sleeping bag without bag in the bottom of it for hiking, but since I need to store it uncompressed next to it that´s not practicable in this instance.

Quote from: Ghost on June 21, 2022, 08:13:52 PMI have a two wheel cart that I use for deer hunting with can easily be pulled. As long as its no too over-weighted while bugging out? That's where the stuff that doesn't quite make the cut goes" the a fore mentioned tent, saw, machete, etc. Basically, stuff you would want to take with you but if you have to abandon it, you can. Thoughts?
I think Ever has something similar, I´ve been wanting one since I saw his. My plan is to put my 45 litre INCH bag in the cart with enough space in it to dump my BOB in there. Some of the items that I´d like simply for comfort reasons could go next to it. These would be dumped if need be (water canister, extra blanket, ...). I won´t be putting any tools outside of the bag though, I don´t want to have to dump these next to some road. If they are not important enough to go in my bag then I don´t need them.

My most realistic reasons for leaving are either a fire or natural disaster. In both cases I have a higher chance of being able to get back and at least safe some things than to recover items I had to drop of somewhere. I think the chance I´d have to abandon the cart are quite high in my case. It all depends on your most likely scenarios.

Ghost

#39
Got out on a five mile hike with the pack, no issues for me. My back is all kinds of pain most days and in the hike with it weighing 35 lbs? No pain, actually felt better lol.

Hiking again tonight with it same distance.

Next up is reevaluating the load out.

Also tested the flex seal coating on the inside flap worked perfect.

Lastly repainted the carrier for folding shovel. Works just fine on the pack as it has Alice clips. Will try to get photos later.

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