Optics Chat

[Optimist]

Even with all my long-winded rambling I forgot to mention the two other reasons I've been wanting to get a night vision device.

The first one is that I'm interested in seeing how my stuff looks under night vision.

The second is to be able to scan and try to see if some people are trying to sneak up on us at night either using a dim light or their own night vision. Night vision is becoming more and more common, so I think there is more risk of bad guys using it.

Both of those reasons are more tinfoil hat, but the world has seemed somewhat more scary to me the last few years. Not just because of the big global events but because I've seen a bunch more people online who have a lot of gear and training and who also have (IMO) nihilistic attitudes and bad intentions. I don't know if these people were always so prevalent and I just happen to be noticing them more often, or if there are a lot more of them recently.

For both of the above two reasons I think an inexpensive handheld might suit my purposes fine, but I want the scope for non-SHTF reasons.

[Moab]

Even with all my long-winded rambling I forgot to mention the two other reasons I've been wanting to get a night vision device.

The first one is that I'm interested in seeing how my stuff looks under night vision.

The second is to be able to scan and try to see if some people are trying to sneak up on us at night either using a dim light or their own night vision. Night vision is becoming more and more common, so I think there is more risk of bad guys using it.

Both of those reasons are more tinfoil hat, but the world has seemed somewhat more scary to me the last few years. Not just because of the big global events but because I've seen a bunch more people online who have a lot of gear and training and who also have (IMO) nihilistic attitudes and bad intentions. I don't know if these people were always so prevalent and I just happen to be noticing them more often, or if there are a lot more of them recently.

For both of the above two reasons I think an inexpensive handheld might suit my purposes fine, but I want the scope for non-SHTF reasons.

I feel the same way and have a theory. I think the economy has gotten so bad that there are alot more desperate people than there were say 5 years ago. Just look at the amount of homeless. The breaking down of unions over the last four decades. A $7.25 federal minimum wage. Rents and houses skyhigh.

Here in LA I used to feel safe. I'm 6'3" 250 though. And an ex-marine type. I never carried a weapon. Occassionally had a pistol in a lockbox in my vehicle. But only when working.

Now I find myself carrying a knife everywhere. I'm not a ninja. But at least I have a last resort. I can get a ccw now here. But have not applied yet for various reasons. But seriously wanting too.

There is just a different vibe right now. People seem more on edge. More car breakins in my vehicles. People where I shop seem to be more desparate. And more on edge. You used to hear alot of honking in traffic. Not so much anymore. Because I think people are more afraid to. More shootings on the freeways. More cartel activity in socal. I had an employee kidnapped and killed in Tijuana.

I honestly don't want to live here any longer. But my wife is very sick. We live in a normally very safe town. But like I said alot more vehicle thefts here. Criminals used to be afraid to come here. Not anymore. And the bad area of the city is only a mile or so away. Its just a freeway that separates this place. And there are alot more people on the otherside than on this side. 

So ya. I agree. Plus drug addiction is no longer confined. Just as likely to have a meth lab and big market in a rural town as a city. 

[Optimist]

I feel the same way and have a theory. I think the economy has gotten so bad that there are alot more desperate people than there were say 5 years ago. Just look at the amount of homeless. The breaking down of unions over the last four decades. A $7.25 federal minimum wage. Rents and houses skyhigh.

That makes sense to me. I think that also even people who are still making an okay living are seeing all the difficulty and picking up a sense of foreboding and unease.


I tested out my inexpensive Sig 1500 laser rangefinder in the woods around my place. In the new growth the furthest sightline I could get was a little under a hundred yards, and in the old growth I got out to 180. This is in the winter so no leaves and I'm several feet higher up than I would be in the summer. I'm curious to see how far I'll be able to reach but I'd be surprised if I can get past 50 yards, and mostly a lot closer than that as the bushes are very thick. It was a warm day so I didn't get a chance to test how well the laser rangefinder works in the cold. I did have issues with my breath fogging the lenses, like happens with most all glass.

[MacWa77ace]

Primary arms came out with a LPVO in the $330 price range. Available for pre order. Buy when they have a SAVE10 or SAVE12 coupon though.

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-slx-1-6x24mm-sfp-rifle-scope-gen-4-illuminated-acss-nova-fiber-wire-reticle


There's a ton of reviews on Youtube. I've watched a few, and most are positive. I think I've decided not to buy the less expensive LPVO to 'try out' before getting the one I want. But this one would have been the one i'd get if was going to stick with that plan. I'm all in on this Recce build now.

[Moab]

Primary arms came out with a LPVO in the $330 price range. Available for pre order. Buy when they have a SAVE10 or SAVE12 coupon though.

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-slx-1-6x24mm-sfp-rifle-scope-gen-4-illuminated-acss-nova-fiber-wire-reticle


There's a ton of reviews on Youtube. I've watched a few, and most are positive. I think I've decided not to buy the less expensive LPVO to 'try out' before getting the one I want. But this one would have been the one i'd get if was going to stick with that plan. I'm all in on this Recce build now.

What separates from the gen3? This scope has been at the top of my list for awhile. I understand the reticle is different. And I kind of like the simolicity of the nova. But just curious how much better it might be?

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-slx6-1-6x24mm-sfp-rifle-scope-gen-3-illuminated-acss-5.56-5.45-308-reticle

[Optimist]

It took so long for the Pulsar Digex C50 to get back in stock that now another digital night vision scope that can work in subzero temperatures has come onto the market. It's the AGM Neith, and it's $800 with a good quality mount compared to the Pulsar's $1400.

I'm thinking I might get the AGM instead. It does pretty much everything the Pulsar does, but from the videos I've watched the image quality and refresh rate is not quite as good. There's a few other smaller considerations:
*The AGM uses standard 18650 batteries compared to the Pulsar's proprietary batteries
*The AGM comes with a mount, the Pulsar has a form factor designed for bolt-actions where I'll probably have to get a reverse-cantilever rail to use the AGM
*The Pulsar is made in Europe while I'm not sure where the AGM is made (I suspect China).
*The Pulsar is rated up to .375 H&H. I have one of those and wouldn't mind being able to put it on that as well. The AGM says it is rated for up to 750g but I'm not sure what that means.

Overall I'd rather have the Pulsar, but the way digital night vision is advancing I don't think it's worth having something top-of-the-line at the moment and rather it's probably better to get something cheaper and then get another cheaper thing in a few years rather than get something twice as expensive and trying to make it work twice as long. The problem was before that none of the cheaper ones worked in cold weather.

I need to look into the recoil rating before making up my mind. Also I think Behring came out with a new digital night vision scope at SHOT but I haven't looked into that one yet.

[NT2C]

I'm planning on adding another BCA upper for Nut Job, this one in .224 Valkyrie.  I think I've settled on this Primary Arms SLx 5-25x56 FFP Rifle Scope - Illuminated ACSS Apollo Reticle - 6.5CR / .224V for the glass I want on it.

[NT2C]

And, of course, no sooner do I decide on this Primary Arms SLx 5-25x56 FFP Rifle Scope - Illuminated ACSS Apollo Reticle - 6.5CR / .224V for the glass I want then I get the new Midway catalog with this Burris Xtreme Tactical XTR II F-Class Rifle Scope on sale.  (Oddly, $629 on the mailer but $599 on the site)

So, that begs the question: Which one? Either is doable with what the wife just said to me. Both are good glass.

[NT2C]

Well, Primary Arms just made the choice a LOT easier.  I was really leaning their way and would probably have bought their scope this weekend but while I was looking at the page I noticed that they were offering a military discount but I had to link my IDMe account.  No problem as I've been okayed through IDMe for years now, both as a veteran and (formerly) as an active first responder.  So I clicked the links, got sent to IDMe, logged in there, approved letting PA see my status, got taken back to my PA account page which now showed a banner saying I was approved for the military pricing but that I should log out and log back in to allow the prices to change.

The goddamned price went UP $30!  It went from $479.99 to $509.99!  WTAF?

I tried chatting but, of course, it's after "business hours" (when will companies understand that if you have a site that sells 24/7 then that's your damn business hours?) so I got an AI chatbot that was clueless.  I left a rant to customer service (mostly polite, I said "feces" instead of "shit") but I'd be really surprised if anything came of it.  I'm not a high-value customer for them, just a guy who bought some optics in the past.

[NT2C]

Primary Arms Customer Service responds:

Good morning,

 

Thank you for contacting Primary Arms. I apologize for any inconvenience. I understand your frustration and disappointment. At Primary Arms, our goal is to provide our customers with the best possible experience since we hold customer satisfaction to the highest standard and ensuring your complete happiness is paramount. Occasionally when Primary Arms has a promotional sale on items, it offers a better discount than the one offered through ID.me. When this is the case, we recommend checking out as a guest or calling us and having us honor the better of the two prices. Please accept my sincerest apologies for falling short of your expectations.

 

I appreciate your feedback, and we are committed to making sure that you have a positive experience with our company. I apologize again for any inconvenience.
 

 If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us.   

 

Sincerely,

Lynzey
Customer Service
3219 S Sam Houston Pkwy E. Houston, TX 77047
Info@primaryarms.com - 713.344.9600

Yeah, so, in order to not get cheated with higher prices I should not log in and just check out as a guest, there by not having a record of the sale on my account for future warranty claims or credits.

Meanwhile, I logged into Midway USA to put the Burris scope in my basket. Midway also has the same IDMe info on my account that Primary Arms does, so I was expecting to see a similar result... nope!  The Midway sale price of $629.99 went DOWN another $30 to cover my 10% discount.  Automatically.  Without checking out as a guest or calling customer service.

Guess which of the two I just got the okay from the wife to buy immediately?  Guess which company I will no longer do business with? 

Yeah, Primary Arms... you're dead to me now. 

Edit: The Burris has been purchased from Midway USA

[NT2C]

Just sent PA a reply to their response, in which I ripped them a new one for their actual treatment of veterans as second-class customers and told them quite frankly that I would be sharing this on my web site, social media, and with the members of veteran organizations that I am a proud member of, notably the American Legion, the Patriot Guard Riders, and Vietnam Veterans of America.

[NT2C]

Well, after multiple email attempts and two telephone calls, trying to communicate with "Billy" from Primary Arms "Customer Service Management" to see what he meant by a "GREAT deal" by way of making things right over the screwup with prices for vets, I still have not heard anything back from him and frankly, I'm done with Primary Arms at this point.

It's pretty sad that first they charge vets a price increase, then their Customer Service rep screws up and gives asinine advice on how to bypass the problem, then Customer Service Management screws up the apology and totally ghosts me, the customer.  That's just pitiful and I don't need to send any of my money to such a pitiful company.