Alternative Options for Housing (long term)

Started by Lambykins, September 08, 2023, 10:53:02 AM

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Lambykins

Okay...housing costs have gotten RIDICULOUS. Anyone who has tried to rent or buy an apartment/condo/house/trailer/land within the past 4 years or so can attest to this.
For the most part, incomes have not risen at the same rate as housing costs.

So, what housing alternatives are there that are less costly and possibly sustainable for the long term?

Here's a few ideas:
Roommates/home-sharing. (more on this later)
Tiny houses (although the costs of those have sky-rocketed as well)
Used mobile homes. (they may need work)
Used construction/office trailers. (also may need work)
Yurts (on a semi-permanent foundation)
Campers on self-owned land or rented land or (if permitted) in a trailer park.
Tents (there are tents, and then there are TENTS, former military know what I'm talking about)
Rooming house. (few and far between these days, but possible)

I'm starting this thread so we can brainstorm, look into the legalities (varies from place to place) and explore the pros and cons of each option.

I'll be expanding on this topic later, but I wanted to get it started.
If you can think of any other options, please list them, I'm kinda doing a deep dive on this right now and would be more than happy to search other alternatives.


"But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you." Taken

"There is no such thing as a fair fight. Fight dirty EVERY time. Dirty fighters win, fair fighters lose. Every fight is a fight for your life. Fight to win. Fight dirty." My dad

"Am I dangerous? Ask any of my surviving exes..." Me

Moab

I just did a deep dive on manufactured homes. Or modern mobile homes. This woman has a long series of videos on buying land and manufactured homes. In plain english but with detail. 

This seems to be the only way to "homestead" these days thats affordable. And even more affordable are used manufactured homes. There are many legalities to it. But her videos shed light on every concern.

Go to her channel. This is just one.


https://youtu.be/gZC1fyF7hJk?si=NIDVMGw0qsDHjusE
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

MacWa77ace

Lifetime gamer watch at MacWa77ace YouTube Channel
#TRowPriceSucks
Ask me about my Fully Semi-Automatic 30-Mag clip death gun .


Raptor

#3
There are lot of variables by location. What works in South MS may or may not work in New England.

That said there are a few out of the box, as yet undiscussed options.

Live on a Boat (in a Marina):

https://www.living-aboard.com/florida-liveaboard-marinas.html

It is quite possible to buy a fiberglass (never wood) boat that is adequate for living purposes. The price of these boats range from $5,000 to $50,000. They will have HVAC, refrigeration and the comforts of a house. The main draw back is that cheap marina space is getting a lot harder to find and many marinas are prohibiting live aboard tenants. The other draw back is that this is mainly a warm climate option and weather is a factor.
As long as the boat is not used for travelling the R&M costs can be kept to a minimum and treated much like a condo on land.

BTW loans for vessels are available with 20% down & 15 year terms.

Mid price range examples, I linked only power boats examples:

https://www.boats.com/power-boats/1975-pacemaker-40-my-8464063/

https://www.boats.com/power-boats/1986-mainship-double-cabin-8798228/

https://www.boats.com/power-boats/1982-chris-craft-catalina-381-7558368/

Sail boats would be cheaper (per foot) but not as roomy and would have fewer interior cubit feet.

Relocate to a lower cost area.
Rural areas tend to be cheaper but of course this is not desirable if there is no employment opportunities or there is a need for medical care. Still this is a possibility. A low cost of residential living nearly always means less demand for housing in the area due to fewer services and opportunities.

Still these are examples of homes in rural communities. These BTW frequently qualify for USDA financing which means as little as 5% down (sometimes).

examples:
 https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1180-Quinlivan-Rd_McComb_MS_39648_M72873-83458?from=srp-map-list
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/418-2nd-St-SW_Reform_AL_35481_M74249-83960?from=srp-map-list

Folks you are on your own...Plan and act accordingly!

I will never claim to have all the answers. Depending upon the subject; I am also aware that I may not have all the questions much less the answers. As a result I am always willing to listen to others and work with them to arrive at the right answers to the applicable questions.

Lambykins

I had completely forgotten about boats!
Houseboats, sailboats, etc.
Marinas aren't just at saltwater ports. Lakes, rivers, any large body of water.
I had a friend that lived in a houseboat on the James River for 2 years of college, it was a desperation situation, but they  made it work (back in the late 70s).
"But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you." Taken

"There is no such thing as a fair fight. Fight dirty EVERY time. Dirty fighters win, fair fighters lose. Every fight is a fight for your life. Fight to win. Fight dirty." My dad

"Am I dangerous? Ask any of my surviving exes..." Me

majorhavoc

This discussion reminds a bit of @superduder 's 9/7 post in his Cabin/Bunkhouse plans Anyone? thread.  The idea of multiple small/tiny homes on shared land.  As I said to someone in the same boat as me (nearing retirement, don't own a home/limited wealth): "We're just going to have to get creative."  UFoZS retirement/prepper community anyone?

Small, self sufficient individual housing (own bath, kitchen and laundry facilities) that each resident owns outright, surrounding a shared clubhouse with group kitchen/dining area, workshop, arts/crafts/hobby studio, library, game room and - of course - a furnished basement/shelter well-stocked with survival supplies.  

One can dream, right? 
A post-apocalyptic tale of love, loss and redemption. And zombies!
<br />https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=105.0

superduder

Quote from: majorhavoc on September 08, 2023, 10:06:27 PMThis discussion reminds a bit of @superduder 's 9/7 post in his Cabin/Bunkhouse plans Anyone? thread.  The idea of multiple small/tiny homes on shared land.  As I said to someone in the same boat as me (nearing retirement, don't own a home/limited wealth): "We're just going to have to get creative."  UFoZS retirement/prepper community anyone?

Small, self sufficient individual housing (own bath, kitchen and laundry facilities) that each resident owns outright, surrounding a shared clubhouse with group kitchen/dining area, workshop, arts/crafts/hobby studio, library, game room and - of course - a furnished basement/shelter well-stocked with survival supplies. 

One can dream, right?
It could be done,
My aunt's second husband and his friends bought a golf course outside Russia Ohio, that had it's own aquifer.
They got water/mineral rights to the property, which took care of property taxes,
They each chose a "Hole" and put a travel trailer there for a getaway spot, or possible escape community.
they did it back in the 60s so all the trailers are old canned ham type or park model trailers from the 40's and 50's
that are like time capsules in the woods.
"I get it, I get it... But it's Still a pain in the ass."
Shawn Kelly

superduder

#7
I recently bought another property,
a little over a half acre of unincorporated/non zoned land (.66AC) for a secondary/possible income property.
I (using good old 3D home architect) laid out one .22 acre lot and did plans for one 10X20... Bungalow (?) cabin.
Just to see what kind of space I'm really dealing with,
Well Suffice it to say IF I wanted to do the traditional "Rack'em and Stack'em"
a.k.a. "Prison Cell but with more privacy" style of housing,
Not that I have that many people in my group (I don't even know 42 adults personally),
but it's nice to have room for company. Right...?
I could make do with housing on one lot and  farming/animal husbandry on the second and third lots.

Each cabin would have it's own bathroom (standard toilet and 36"x36" shower),
kitchen (with RV 110/12v/propane fridge and propane RV cooktop), and small 8X16 storage cellar.
Two bunks and a "jack knife" fold out sofa for bedding
Each can (hypothetically of course) house 3 adults, there's no utilities at the location though
so water tanks, or a VERY deep well and gas/propane or diesel generator
and/or wind & solar aso would be a necessity it would be cozy, borderline crowded, but again Could be done. 
"I get it, I get it... But it's Still a pain in the ass."
Shawn Kelly

superduder

#8
My previously mentioned "gun guy" has even tried to convince me to get a 16X22 Mil-Surp tent for the property
Think Mess Hall from M.A.S.H, yeah $2500 is Much cheaper than a built shed/cabin,
and being able to store 4 of them in a 5X12 cargo trailer is handy if you don't want to set up shelters,
OR don't want any outside eyes seeing any improvements/preps pre-emergency.

But having lived in a SEARS "Hillary" canvas tent for 2years as a kid*
I can say that the upkeep, and maintenance is not worth the storage capabilities.
For temporary shelter (6mo MAX) maybe, but not a permanent shelter.
Which is why the whole travel trailer, or shed/tiny house cheerleading thing.
even buying older RVs with bad drivetrains and parking them as shelters would be better than a tent.

This is all opinion of course,
At the same time I can't speak as to a Yurt, I've never seen one in person,
Let alone stayed in one, but they look WAY more sturdy/viable than a standard tent.

Pics of the two tents mentioned attached.
"I get it, I get it... But it's Still a pain in the ass."
Shawn Kelly

flybynight

"Hey idiot, you should feel your pulse, not see it."  Echo 83

superduder

Been a while, but I just got one of these...
And the picture on the box/manual immediately conjured images of the tents from Left 4 Dead 2.
How hard could it be, realistically, to make a canvas cover for one of these, and turn it into a M.A.S.H. barracks tent?

I can't sew a straight line to save my hide,
but I bet if one could it would be fairly easy, maybe add a few structural reinforcements,
Wooden door frame, and a stove jack (mash tent again) a couple mesh sewn in windows
and I would think you'd be good to go shelter wise, At least for a few months.
J
"I get it, I get it... But it's Still a pain in the ass."
Shawn Kelly

Moab

Quote from: superduder on September 09, 2023, 04:56:33 PMI recently bought another property,
a little over a half acre of unincorporated/non zoned land (.66AC) for a secondary/possible income property.
I (using good old 3D home architect) laid out one .22 acre lot and did plans for one 10X20... Bungalow (?) cabin.
Just to see what kind of space I'm really dealing with,
Well Suffice it to say IF I wanted to do the traditional "Rack'em and Stack'em"
a.k.a. "Prison Cell but with more privacy" style of housing,
Not that I have that many people in my group (I don't even know 42 adults personally),
but it's nice to have room for company. Right...?
I could make do with housing on one lot and  farming/animal husbandry on the second and third lots.

Each cabin would have it's own bathroom (standard toilet and 36"x36" shower),
kitchen (with RV 110/12v/propane fridge and propane RV cooktop), and small 8X16 storage cellar.
Two bunks and a "jack knife" fold out sofa for bedding
Each can (hypothetically of course) house 3 adults, there's no utilities at the location though
so water tanks, or a VERY deep well and gas/propane or diesel generator
and/or wind & solar aso would be a necessity it would be cozy, borderline crowded, but again Could be done. 
What would the cost breakdown be in this? 
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

superduder

#12
Quote from: Moab on March 24, 2024, 05:32:09 PM
Quote from: superduder on September 09, 2023, 04:56:33 PMI recently bought another property,
a little over a half acre of unincorporated/non zoned land (.66AC) for a secondary/possible income property.
I (using good old 3D home architect) laid out one .22 acre lot and did plans for one 10X20... Bungalow (?) cabin.
Just to see what kind of space I'm really dealing with,
Well Suffice it to say IF I wanted to do the traditional "Rack'em and Stack'em"
a.k.a. "Prison Cell but with more privacy" style of housing,
Not that I have that many people in my group (I don't even know 42 adults personally),
but it's nice to have room for company. Right...?
I could make do with housing on one lot and  farming/animal husbandry on the second and third lots.

Each cabin would have it's own bathroom (standard toilet and 36"x36" shower),
kitchen (with RV 110/12v/propane fridge and propane RV cooktop), and small 8X16 storage cellar.
Two bunks and a "jack knife" fold out sofa for bedding
Each can (hypothetically of course) house 3 adults, there's no utilities at the location though
so water tanks, or a VERY deep well and gas/propane or diesel generator
and/or wind & solar aso would be a necessity it would be cozy, borderline crowded, but again Could be done. 
What would the cost breakdown be in this?
The individual sheds/cabins in that post could be bought assembled, and delivered for (checked today)
$5000 Each.
That's unfinished, and I saw today there were within "driving distance" of the property (150mi)
several pop up "tent" trailers Or truck campers with all appliances, lighting, and water systems in tact
and working but bad canvas, body tub, Floor or bad roof for $FREE-$500 ea.
I'd go $6K-$8K each to be move in ready.. This is also No electrical power generation system,
or water tanks other than holding tanks from the trailers/campers,
And doing all the interior labor/installation yourself of course.
The IBC totes route for the water would run $300-$500 installed, and the solar... (don't shoot please)
HF 100W kit, with controller and wiring (beginner level kit but they do work)
and a single 100AH Walmart deep cycle battery (regular lead/acid is fine)
will run a laptop, 12v accessories/lighting from a camper well enough.

So...
$5000 base Shed (more $$$ = More finished shed)
$500 Camper
$400 IBC food grade tote water system
$500 solar/batt/inverter
-------------------------
@ $6000-$7500 each livable Estimated/YMMV of course,

I haven't checked if a shed/barn dealer would be inclined to give a discount for multiple buildings yet.
I really should, because IF I decided to go with the cabins idea, getting even 10% off each would mean a pretty good discount.
"I get it, I get it... But it's Still a pain in the ass."
Shawn Kelly

Moab

Whats the construction of these cabins like? 1x I would assume? 
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

superduder

Quote from: Moab on March 24, 2024, 07:00:25 PMWhats the construction of these cabins like? 1x I would assume?
I don't follow, what does "1X" mean?
"I get it, I get it... But it's Still a pain in the ass."
Shawn Kelly

majorhavoc

Quote from: superduder on March 24, 2024, 07:28:18 PM
Quote from: Moab on March 24, 2024, 07:00:25 PMWhats the construction of these cabins like? 1x I would assume?
I don't follow, what does "1X" mean?

I'm thinking nominal lumber dimension. The implication being the overall construction would be less substantial than a conventional home. So instead of 2x4s, 2x6s, etc., it's probably 1" thick lumber: 1x1s, 1x4s, etc.
A post-apocalyptic tale of love, loss and redemption. And zombies!
<br />https://ufozs.com/smf/index.php?topic=105.0

Moab

Quote from: majorhavoc on March 24, 2024, 07:56:25 PM
Quote from: superduder on March 24, 2024, 07:28:18 PM
Quote from: Moab on March 24, 2024, 07:00:25 PMWhats the construction of these cabins like? 1x I would assume?
I don't follow, what does "1X" mean?

I'm thinking nominal lumber dimension. The implication being the overall construction would be less substantial than a conventional home. So instead of 2x4s, 2x6s, etc., it's probably 1" thick lumber: 1x1s, 1x4s, etc.
Yes. Thats what I meant. My apologies. 
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

superduder

They're through a Sheds USA affiliate, so they're built "to code" lumber wise, except the studs are 24in on center.
You can specify 16in for a little higher initial cost,Which is why I went higher on the estimate.
Not that 16in centers would necessarily increase the cost that much, but double pane/additional windows,
Standard house door instead of dual barn doors, etc probably would though.
"I get it, I get it... But it's Still a pain in the ass."
Shawn Kelly

eugenenine

The other things to think about also are cost of land before you can even plan your housing. Land prices have gone up more than the cost of the houses on them.
Then the rules and regulations around what you can and can't build if you are anywhere close to work. We moved into the house we are in in 2008 and are kind of trapped here because anything else is way more expensive now.

superduder

Quote from: eugenenine on March 25, 2024, 09:36:23 AMThe other things to think about also are cost of land before you can even plan your housing. Land prices have gone up more than the cost of the houses on them.
Then the rules and regulations around what you can and can't build if you are anywhere close to work. We moved into the house we are in in 2008 and are kind of trapped here because anything else is way more expensive now.
The "recent" .66ac total property ran me just over $1050 all in.
It's non zoned, but was supposed to be a subdivision back in the 1950's the farthest they got was grading/brush removal.
So now it's got tons of palo verde bushes, sagebrush, and feral hogs, but other than that nothing.
Nearest utility pole is 3/4 mile away, nearest neighbor/house/improved road is 1.25mi away.

Not sure how any of that would affect anyone's desire to buy, but it does affect the price.
J
"I get it, I get it... But it's Still a pain in the ass."
Shawn Kelly

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