Cutting the Fat: FILBE addition

[RonnyRonin]

Original thread can be found here:

https://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=119054&p=2740986&hilit=filbe#p2740986


9/20/2016

Sorry to disappoint, this will be anticlimactic compared to the ILBE version, but a useful data point.

Please refer to photos on the overview thread for reference: https://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=111828

Finally decided I would cut on my FILBE rather then wait to buy a second one:



trimmed off the MOLLE laden side panels, 2 yip-yab tabs, the redundant bottom shoulder strap attachment points and two of the female assault pack mounting buckles. decided to leave the side grab handles this time.



sides are now much slicker.



Finally got a full Tactical Tailor ALICE setup,



The results? A whopping 7oz. (which puts current bag-only weight around 3.7lbs)
Speculating you could trim another oz from the other two assault pack buckles, another 3 oz from deleting the interior compression straps (one at the front of the sleep system compartment, on at the top), and maybe 2oz+ from cutting out the interior divider flap. Probably a good oz to be had from shortening all the straps, something I am always hesitant to do. Radio pocket is quite light compared to the ILBE, but my guess is over 3 oz could be removed with it.
All told, just over a pound.

most weight savings beyond this get tricky, you could delete the waterproof radio access zipper, but that would involve quite a bit of sewing. The lid is sewn on so it is more of a commitment to remove, I might try converting it to a day pack at some point but for now it stays. Some of the MOLLE could certainly be removed, but this leaves either tiny stumps of webbing or wholes in the fabric from the bartacks.
Takeaway: Much less fat to be trimmed from this unit.


9/28/2016

doing some more Down East vs. ALICE vs. NICE frame comparison walks. since the female buckles on my stock FILBE frame had ripped off (and I cut off the assault pack buckles) i had to rig up something else. If the pack is full enough this will provide shoulder lift, unlike the three options mentioned...



accessory straps routed through the lid MOLLE to the female assault pack buckles on the far side of the lid. Not supper consistent as tension compresses the load as well as lifting the shoulder strap, but a heck of a lot better then nothing. Placing something more rigid like a sleeping pad under the lid would firm up the ride considerably.

As a side note, my wife has decided that walking around town with a FILBE makes me look more like a homeless person then nearly any of my other packs.


10/2/2016

More frame comparison walks reminded me of a flaw with the stock FILBE, the snap strap keeping the quick release mechanism on the shoulder strap was cut too short on at least the initial production run. This means that in order to be snapped it is under quite a bit of tension, and if curved too far in the other direction, if too much weight is in the pack or if it is bumped while adjusting the straps, it will disengage. This causes the quick release mechanism to be very easy to engage at this point, very much a problem.

This problem was officially recognized, and there are two easy fixes;

1) purchase an official modification kit from OVI: http://ovinnovations.com/collections/filbe-upgrades/products/filbe-mods

2) Cut 'em off.



Thankfully the designers put a redundant strap attachment point right above the heavy QR mech. It is a two-handed affair to tighten the thick webbing through the ALICE pack-style metal ladderlock, but it is very secure.
Weight saved cutting off the QR mech: 3.5 oz.

If I ever decide I want QR capabilities I can splice in an ITW repair buckle or a QASM down the road.



While I was playing around with the stock suspension I decided to chop off the lumbar pad behind the belt. I didn't remember any problems with the very similar MOLLE II belt bottoming out or hitting the frame, and the FILBE seemed to be suffering from low-end stability problems; it seemed to roll side-to-side quite a bit.



Weight saved: 2 oz

For the curious, the pad contained a Mystery Ranch standby; thin crazy stiff foam for structure and thick fluffy foam for comfort.



My suspicions seem to be correct, the belt does not bottom out on the frame and seems to still pivot freely up and down. With the center frame attachment straps (not present on the MOLLE II) I was able to suck the belt in nice and close to the fame and so far have apparently eliminated the huge majority of the side-to-side sway.

Despite this the chief sin of the belt remained, the unfortunate hip-eating corrugated foam. At 46 lbs I can barely make it a half mile before I have to take the belt off, and for several miles I will continue to futz with it, moving it around before finally giving up a slogging along grunt-style with shoulder straps only.

Simplest fix in the world:



Duct tape and sleeping mat foam. This confirms my other suspicions; the general shape and structure of the belt is quite sound, and that only by avoiding the simplest possible solution did the designers create such an insidious torture device (one wonders if the military ASKED the designers to make the belt so uncomfortable that Soldiers and Marines wouldn't be tempted to use it and come into conflict with doctrine).

Once fixed and combined with the shoulder lift from the previous mod the stock suspensions becomes quite comfortable. I will seek out a more permanent padding solution for the belt, but the shoulder straps (more then likely engineered to support the whole load the majority of the time) are if anything overkill. The padding immediately beneath the main straps in the above picture vexes me, they make unnecessary contact with your back inhibiting ventilation and body armor compatibility. My suspicion is that this was in reaction to the shape of the 1606 frame (possible back contact when hunched) and could have been avoided if the superior (in my mind) 1603 frame had been used. If it weren't firmly attached to the hard plate giving the 1606 the badly needed extra 2" of height I would immediately chop it off. I suspect that the shoulder straps if freed from the whole plate arrangement could be made into truly superior ALICE or MOLLE II straps. If I can source a second harness cheaply enough I will certainly try it.

[RonnyRonin]

1/19/2020

Mega thread necro, but I feel timely.

FILBEs continue to drop in price, I recently participated in a group buy that got us several main bags for around $15 each. While I am still hesitant to recommend the frame and suspension the bag is certainly a cheap way to get some capacity onto a host of frames many people already have in the stable.



A trick that doesn't get enough press: most "youth" sized external frames are in fact ALICE width. I'm unsure what brand this is, but I also have a JanSport youth with the same dimensions more or less. the width of the frame makes for plenty of room to get your head up between the uprights, although it can feel strange having the load lifters set so wide.



The "horns" of the frame slip nicely through the corner cutouts of the FILBE where they would be far less ideal for an ALICE bag.
This lets you have at least 3" of frame height over the stock frame setting, and lets you place the bottom of the bag flush with the bottom of the frame (unlike the FILBE frame in the "tall" setting) which is much more stable when sitting on the ground then if the bag is sitting off the bottom.



with the bag thoroughly stuffed the frame isn't really taller then the top of the pack anyway, so the frame doesn't necessarily present more of a snag hazard then the pack itself





But in the more common case (I hope) in which the bag is not totally full, the frame horns make a VERY stable mounting point for things strapped to the top of the pack.





For me this tends to be the more common amount of volume used in the pack, and I am often frustrated by the lack of compression allowed to the lid because of how soon the straps bottom out. You could run the bottom straps all the way up to the lid for ALICE style all-the-way-round compression, but then you lose the ability to compartmentalize your external cargo




one of the few sewing mods that helps with this particular frame is simply sewing the straps that hold the center spars of the FILBE frame further out so it can tighten at the edges of the pack.



the bottom attachment was simpler then I would have thought, simply add repair buckles and a strap between the bottom most yib-yab tabs and run a strap between them to keep the bottom corners tight.




The expensive but turn-key solution for perhaps the ultimate FILBE pack:



Mystery Ranch Guide Light, Hard to see but the side mounting is similar and the bottom mounting utilizes the bottom frame-side buckles being routed between the frame and belt:





Similar to the youth frame, the frame extensions don't extend past the top of the bag when full, but provide mounting for a pad under normal loads





The frame and suspension are fairly light and Plush, but hard to justify the price only as a way to carry a $20> bag, but of course the MR is quite useful as a packboard for jerry cans, boxes of food, and any big heavy thing you want to carry further then you get it on wheels



If you already have this frame, or even another MR bag to go with it, the FILBE bag is still a nice high-capacity supplement, particularly for winter use.


1/19/2020

some interior shots:





about the only cutting I've done since the last round:



the internal sleep compartment divider, saved about 2.5 oz.

My modded bag (side sleeves, bottom strap attachment rings, some yib yabs, assault pack buckles, and sleep system divider all removed) sits at 3lbs 12 oz, still a bit heavy but it is a large bag.

The youth frame shown above with straps and belt weighs in at 1lb 15 oz, meaning the entire pack weighs 5lbs 11 oz.

The MR Guide Light weighs 3lbs 4oz, meaning the entire pack weighs 7lbs even.

Much lighter then the stock FILBE at 9lbs 4oz, but still far from a light pack.

I'd recommend these setups for INCH bags or winter packs, but I'd have a hard time recommending them for normal backpacking or BOB use.




In other news, I chopped the hard plate off from behind the straps and mounted them directly to the frame. Saved around 8oz

Also finally got around to replacing the duct tape on the hipbelt with actual cordura pockets for the extra foam, immensely more comfortable for me.

[RonnyRonin]

2/2/2020

some updated testing photos

[RonnyRonin]

4/4/2020

Sorry, I pulled that setup apart before I weighed it, and due to other mods I was using a stock FILBE bag so the numbers would have been a bit wonky. the straps saved 8oz, and the belt padding probably added 2oz back on so not too much different from an issue one.





The interesting thing about Downeast frames is just about any straps and belts you can sew 1" ladderlocks to can be adapted; here is some old Osprey suspension I found laying around at work.

[RonnyRonin]

5/18/2020

minor update; decide to chop the side bottle pockets off since they tended to not hold bottles secure enough anyway:



saved 2.75 oz.

Removed the radio access pocket (no picture) and replaced with 1.5" webbing.

saved 1.25 oz.

removed the stock lid with full double layers, molle webbing, and a dual zippered pocket and replaced with a simple single layer lid.



saved about 8 oz.

I haven't confirmed with my scale yet (which has been on the fritz) but straight math says I'm very near an even 3lbs for the bag only at this point.

[RonnyRonin]

2021 updated:

I've kept a bone stock FILBE bag around to test turnkey add ons, but the modified one gets far more use and so far I don't regret any of the modifications. So far the prices seem to fairly consistent on the bags, and I continue to recommend it to folks that have either an ALICE frame or a Mystery Ranch frame and want a large bag.

I only really use this setup for workouts or short winter trips where I don't want to drag a pulk sled, still not light enough for normal backpacking trips but it would be high on my list for a full INCH bag.

The question that comes up naturally is of course FILBE vs. ILBE; obviously they are very different packs and in general I think the ILBE is a better starting point for most uses, but the prices and availability are starting to make it a non starter. For the martially minded the FILBE certainly has advantages when wearing armor and feels more familiar to old heads that are still fond of the ALICE.

[Moab]

I assume the MR harness comes in a tall size? I think im a 21. Any cheaper options in a 21 frame?

[RonnyRonin]

I assume the MR harness comes in a tall size? I think im a 21. Any cheaper options in a 21 frame?

The yoke is very adjustable, my frame is a medium all around and there is height left over for my 6'2" self. If you have a larger chest you might want the Large yoke just for the longer straps, but it only comes in one frame height.

For tall guys the MR and the external youth frame might be the only show in town.