Optics Chat

[MacWa77ace]

Neat.

What did that optic run you, Mac ?

Normally $249.99 but with coupon 219.99, but for some reason had to pay tax for a TX purchase shipping to FL. I don't remember them adding taxes before.
As compared to my Trij Micro ACOG which was also on sale and I had a coupon and I added a mount with additional discount. That was $905 total including $7 shipping and no tax from PA also. that' was about a $200 savings so you know I had to do it.

Yeah I just looked, my last purchase from PA was Jan 2021 and no tax added there either.

Think I'm going to contact them and see if that's not an error. it's $15 we're talking about here.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

Neat.

What did that optic run you, Mac ?

Normally $249.99 but with coupon 219.99, but for some reason had to pay tax for a TX purchase shipping to FL. I don't remember them adding taxes before.
As compared to my Trij Micro ACOG which was also on sale and I had a coupon and I added a mount with additional discount. That was $905 total including $7 shipping and no tax from PA also. that' was about a $200 savings so you know I had to do it.

Yeah I just looked, my last purchase from PA was Jan 2021 and no tax added there either.

Think I'm going to contact them and see if that's not an error. it's $15 we're talking about here.

That is odd, Mac. I'd figure the TX tax would only apply to Texas residents.

As for the optic, it's on my list to check out now. I've been wanting to try out a prismatic optic for awhile since red dots get blurry for me.

They work, but I'd like something a bit clearer. Which is where the prismatic optics come in.

[MacWa77ace]

Neat.

What did that optic run you, Mac ?

Normally $249.99 but with coupon 219.99, but for some reason had to pay tax for a TX purchase shipping to FL. I don't remember them adding taxes before.
As compared to my Trij Micro ACOG which was also on sale and I had a coupon and I added a mount with additional discount. That was $905 total including $7 shipping and no tax from PA also. that' was about a $200 savings so you know I had to do it.

Yeah I just looked, my last purchase from PA was Jan 2021 and no tax added there either.

Think I'm going to contact them and see if that's not an error. it's $15 we're talking about here.

That is odd, Mac. I'd figure the TX tax would only apply to Texas residents.

As for the optic, it's on my list to check out now. I've been wanting to try out a prismatic optic for awhile since red dots get blurry for me.

They work, but I'd like something a bit clearer. Which is where the prismatic optics come in.

I emailed their customer care because I looked back over my previous orders and there was never tax added. Could be a new thing, but for large purchases the tax thing can be a deal breaker especially if there is freight added. This was a free freight item as it is. Or they may have put a location in FL.

As you know I like prismatics for the fact that they don't have to have batteries to work. But this one has a diopter also, to focus the reticle. There's a bunch of new review videos out there, these were pre order only since July, and while i didn't pre order there was a sitewide sale last weekend, so i was going to pre order if the coupon worked for it, but it was instock and the coupon worked. Ordered it last Sunday.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

Them being a preorder item is probably why I hadn't heard of that particular model until today.

Then again, I don't really follow optics as much as other firearm accessories so that's probably why I didn't know about it.

[MacWa77ace]

Optics p0rn



Left to right:
Trijicon ACOG 4x 32mm duel site w/ BDC cross hair reticle and Docter MRS TA31D
Trijicon Micro ACOG 1.5x 16mm w/ ACSS reticle and Bobro QD mount TA44
Primary Arms 1x 17mm w/ ACSS reticle SLX Micro Prizm 'Cyclops'
UTG 1x Red/Green Dot site 30mm w/ UTG QD mount
UTG 3x magnifier flip to side QD mount
Field Sport 1x Micro RDS 20mm w/ UTG QD mount

So I just remembered that I have to send my big ACOG in to Trijicon to revitalize the tritium. I've had that since 2006 and the life of the tritium is 15 years. When I send it in I'll probably use the Cyclops on that rifle as a temp.

[Optimist]

My Leupold DeltaPoint Micro showed up the other day. Seemed like a nifty RDS for handguns. Although after I ordered it I remembered my headlamp problem and I'll probably have to use a different handgun for night time barnyard chores.


Optics Planet did take their time getting it to me. It wouldn't have been so frustrating if they hadn't sent me constant updates with wildly different estimated shipping times. The other bummer is that there appears to be something wrong with the power button/brightness control. It basically has one button on the battery cap that you use to adjust brightness and as the on/off, but it doesn't seem to do anything.

The dot is also weird but that might be something to do with my eyes. It looks like a collection of tiny dots surrounded by a star shaped halo. Maybe I have an astigmatism? I don't remember having this problem with red dots in the past, but it's been quite a few years and I don't own any others to compare it to. Can an astigmatism worsen with age? I figure I'll have a couple other people look at it to see if they see the same thing. It's also about time to schedule an eye appointment anyway.

I took a picture but on my phone's camera it looks like a bunch of concentric rings. It's not what I see and I suspect not what it looks like to the naked eye for most anyone.


Edit: All I had t do was complain about it not working and the problem with the button went away. I tried removing the battery and putting it back in three times and had the same problem, but fourth times the charm I guess?

Edit 2: Derp, I forgot I have an old DeltaPoint (ye olde magnesium one from many years ago) that I can use to check to see if my eyes have gone all wonky. It had a triangle-shaped dot that I remember looking clear a couple years back, so it should be good for this test. Now if I can just figure out where I stashed it during my multiple moves.

[MacWa77ace]

I have not made the move to handgun optics yet but that micro looks half the size of the RMRs which scare me as far as dot pickup. My main reason for not mounting one yet. I have talked to and heard a few trainers who say you have to do at least 2000 draw to site pictures before you should use one on a PDW for PD IRL. And have had issues picking it up on the few borrowed tries I've practiced with.

[Optimist]

I can definitely see why the small window would be a concern as far as dot pickup goes. The funny thing is from the reviews it sounds like counterintuitively it is the opposite. The window is small enough and so close to the top of the slide that in the reviews it sounds like the whole thing acts like a big ghost ring that is actually easier for people used to iron sights to get used to. On the other hand the small window means that it is easier to lose the dot under recoil so it might not be as big of a benefit over using iron sights as a more conventional red dot.

From the good reviews I've watched (good meaning they appear to be honest and not just trying to sell a product) it sounds like there are a bunch of tradeoffs that offer some advantages but at the same time come with downsides. I don't have experience with red dots on handguns though so this should all be taken with a bunch of salt.

On the good side the window sits low enough to the slide that it can co-witness with the front sight (which can be standard height). This means it is easier for many iron sights users to get used to and if the dot fails it works pretty effectively as a ghost-ring iron sight. On the downside the window is small enough that it is easier to lose track of the dot during recoil and the front sight takes up a decent chunk of the window.

For concealment purposes it is smaller in terms of height but sticks out from the back in ways that might print, and might poke if you're appendix carrying and have a gut.

Some other pros: Seems to be durably built (no multi-year tests yet but some abusive tests have been done), fully enclosed, installs easily and without having to permanently modify a slide, battery can be changed easily without removing the sight, good battery life

Some other cons: No clicks when adjusting the sight which can make zeroing annoying, not the most common battery, battery cap threads are fine so you need to be careful not to cross-thread, currently only for Glock and M&P (and might never work with many hammer-fired handguns due to the design), looks weird

(Again, no personal experience, just aggregating reviews.)

There are two main things that drew me to it. The first is that it can be installed without permanently altering the slide. I have a Glock 29 which I am very fond of but there isn't much in the way of aftermarket slides, so I'd be bummed if I got the slide milled and then hated the dot. The second is that it is fully enclosed and the stuff I used is very frequently getting exposed to rain, very cold temps and dirt. (In the manual I read that it's operating temps go as low as -20f, so I guess we're going to find out how accurate that is  .)

[MacWa77ace]

I can definitely see why the small window would be a concern as far as dot pickup goes. The funny thing is from the reviews it sounds like counterintuitively it is the opposite. The window is small enough and so close to the top of the slide that in the reviews it sounds like the whole thing acts like a big ghost ring that is actually easier for people used to iron sights to get used to. On the other hand the small window means that it is easier to lose the dot under recoil so it might not be as big of a benefit over using iron sights as a more conventional red dot.



For concealment purposes it is smaller in terms of height but sticks out from the back in ways that might print, and might poke if you're appendix carrying and have a gut.



[..]
There are two main things that drew me to it. The first is that it can be installed without permanently altering the slide. I have a Glock 29 which I am very fond of but there isn't much in the way of aftermarket slides, so I'd be bummed if I got the slide milled and then hated the dot. The second is that it is fully enclosed and the stuff I used is very frequently getting exposed to rain, very cold temps and dirt. (In the manual I read that it's operating temps go as low as -20f, so I guess we're going to find out how accurate that is  .)

Thanks for that added review.

When i looked at it the first thing I thought was ghost ring myself. When I bring up a handgun to acquire a site picture, the way I do it now is to catch the front site as I bring it up and put it on the target with the gun angled as if I was making a 100yd shot. Basically the top of the rear site blades are aligned with the bottom of the front site post, then once on target, a little flip and perfect site picture. [ I don't target shoot or aim with one eye, with pistols either come up from low ready or draw and shoot controlled pairs or mogadishu, or boxed controlled pair drills etc.]

I wouldn't worry about recoil and losing the dot, you lose the iron sites too. It just shouldn't matter if you grip your automatic correctly, Because as soon as the gun is back in battery your muscle memory and grip should have the sight right back where you were at the moment of trigger break. You can see where your at by doing this test at the range. Actually aiming for the first shot like normal but closing your eyes at trigger break an firing a second shot as a controlled pair [time interval vs double tap] when you feel the gun snap back into battery. The POI should be really close to the first shot. Now that is at 7 yds or less of course. CQB.

People CC with weapon lights attached and RMRs, shouldn't be an issue, with CC its all about the holster.

The mounting was the second thing I noticed, right in the dovetail, very cool. I was thinking I was just going to buy optics ready slides when I'm ready to go there. That way I'll have a BU iron site slide. Can you get at the firing pin without removing the site though. Not a Glock guy, M&P and IIRC that is the pin access.

[Optimist]

I wouldn't worry about recoil and losing the dot, you lose the iron sites too. It just shouldn't matter if you grip your automatic correctly, Because as soon as the gun is back in battery your muscle memory and grip should have the sight right back where you were at the moment of trigger break. You can see where your at by doing this test at the range. Actually aiming for the first shot like normal but closing your eyes at trigger break an firing a second shot as a controlled pair [time interval vs double tap] when you feel the gun snap back into battery. The POI should be really close to the first shot. Now that is at 7 yds or less of course. CQB.

Thanks, I'll have to try doing that. Seems like a good way to test myself that would actually give useable feedback. Kind of reminds me of the trick with testing your natural point of aim where you get on target, close your eyes, take in a breath and let it out then open your eyes to see if you're still on target. (The NPOI stuff was my favorite part of the Appleseed class.)

I'm not sure about being able to still remove the firing pin on an M&P, so far all the reviews I've seen they've been using it on Glocks.

[RoneKiln]

I firmly believe in being able to shoot at decent ranges with my handgun and it would drive me crazy to lose the dot.

That said, if I truly needed my handgun, it's probably at point blank range and I'm more concerned with pulling the trigger as fast as possible.

In one of the handgun classes I took last year they completely taped up our sites and turned the lights off so we could at best shoot by the vague outline of our handgun. Enough light filtered in we could tell where the target was and maneuver safely, but we couldn't see details. To my surprise we all kept hitting center mass even all the way back to... I think 18  yards.  It was the maximum length of the indoor range we were in.

[NT2C]

So while I was away I signed up for Medicare, then decided to do retirement benefits too.  Made a deal with the wife that my first year of benefits is mine to use as I want, after that it goes in the household budget.  Used my first check to take advantage of a screaming good price on a Holosun HS515CM (MSRP is $411 and grabbed one for $297) then added one of their 3x tip off magnifiers to the deal for another $200.




Those went on my AR, replacing the Holosun HE503CU-GR that was on it.  That in turn went on my Mossberg 500 to replace a low priced RDS I've had on there.  I'll have to add a cheek riser to the stock but I think it'll work.




Then a friend of mine dropped by and said we should take them with us on his pontoon boat and... the bastard forgot the drain plug and it sank.

[MacWa77ace]

Then a friend of mine dropped by and said we should take them with us on his pontoon boat and... the bastard forgot the drain plug and it sank.

I'm thinking you should optimize the spacing between the RDS and magnifier.  The magnifier's eye relief determines its position then the RDS backs right up as close to the magnifier as the picatinny will allow.

That way light won't spill into the magnifier interior tube.

LOL Boat stories, good idea for a thread

[NT2C]

I'm thinking you should optimize the spacing between the RDS and magnifier.  The magnifier's eye relief determines its position then the RDS backs right up as close to the magnifier as the picatinny will allow.

That way light won't spill into the magnifier interior tube.

LOL Boat stories, good idea for a thread

I'd normally do exactly that, but note that the RDS comes with flip down lens covers.  That's as close as I can get and still allow them to swing open.  Seems to work well enough for my purposes but if it turns into an issue I can always remove one cover.

[MacWa77ace]

I'm thinking you should optimize the spacing between the RDS and magnifier.  The magnifier's eye relief determines its position then the RDS backs right up as close to the magnifier as the picatinny will allow.

That way light won't spill into the magnifier interior tube.

LOL Boat stories, good idea for a thread

I'd normally do exactly that, but note that the RDS comes with flip down lens covers.  That's as close as I can get and still allow them to swing open.  Seems to work well enough for my purposes but if it turns into an issue I can always remove one cover.

Right, Right. But there's a trick to that. If you move the RDS as close as possible to the magnifier, not only do you get the benefit of not getting light bleed, but the added benefit that the magnifier works as a rear lens protector when it is in the flipped up position.

On my UTG setup, the rear magnifier comes with a rubber bikini lens cover, so i positioned the RDS to have it actually touch the bikini cover of the Magnifier. I left the front flip on on the RDS, removed the rear, and then use the bikini on the magnifier to do double duty.

[NT2C]

I'm thinking you should optimize the spacing between the RDS and magnifier.  The magnifier's eye relief determines its position then the RDS backs right up as close to the magnifier as the picatinny will allow.

That way light won't spill into the magnifier interior tube.

LOL Boat stories, good idea for a thread

I'd normally do exactly that, but note that the RDS comes with flip down lens covers.  That's as close as I can get and still allow them to swing open.  Seems to work well enough for my purposes but if it turns into an issue I can always remove one cover.

Right, Right. But there's a trick to that. If you move the RDS as close as possible to the magnifier, not only do you get the benefit of not getting light bleed, but the added benefit that the magnifier works as a rear lens protector when it is in the flipped up position.

On my UTG setup, the rear magnifier comes with a rubber bikini lens cover, so i positioned the RDS to have it actually touch the bikini cover of the Magnifier. I left the front flip on on the RDS, removed the rear, and then use the bikini on the magnifier to do double duty.

I'll see how much of an issue light bleed is for me when I start shooting with this setup to get used to it.  If it turns out to be a problem I'll try your advice.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

I'd love to find some flip up covers for the Bushnell TRS-25 and Crimson Trace CTS-25 red dots I've got, but no one makes anything that small.

I'd also like to find a better cover for the Weaver micro dot I've got on my AR, but again, no luck.

[MacWa77ace]

I'd love to find some flip up covers for the Bushnell TRS-25 and Crimson Trace CTS-25 red dots I've got, but no one makes anything that small.

I'd also like to find a better cover for the Weaver micro dot I've got on my AR, but again, no luck.

There's a generic 20mm micro rds bikini cover out there. I got one as an RPL for one of mine that broke and it fit perfectly.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=20mm+micro+bikini+cover+for+optics&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images make sure your safe search is ON! before clicking that link. LOL.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

I'd love to find some flip up covers for the Bushnell TRS-25 and Crimson Trace CTS-25 red dots I've got, but no one makes anything that small.

I'd also like to find a better cover for the Weaver micro dot I've got on my AR, but again, no luck.

There's a generic 20mm micro rds bikini cover out there. I got one as an RPL for one of mine that broke and it fit perfectly.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=20mm+micro+bikini+cover+for+optics&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images make sure your safe search is ON! before clicking that link. LOL.

I've made that mistake before, Mac.

Some of the results weren't too bad, but definitely not what I was intending to find when I searched.

[Optimist]

Do you guys ever buy used rifle scopes? I've heard several times that scopes don't hold their value well, but I never thought it through on the other side that good deals might be had buying used. For some reason I'm a little worried that I might get something busted and I'll waste a bunch of ammo figuring it out. On the other hand the same is true for used firearms and I buy those all the time.